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Epic Riot In Greece - Page 7

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Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
December 17 2008 20:12 GMT
#121
On December 18 2008 03:32 AdamBanks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:
On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote:
Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there.



Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument.


Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race.


Edit: For more information..
+ Show Spoiler +
Daily effects of white privilege by. Peggy MacIntosh
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social



Yay i love making broad generalizations about other people that make broad generalizations

fucking hypocrites.
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
December 17 2008 20:14 GMT
#122
On December 18 2008 03:14 D10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2008 02:37 Savio wrote:
Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.

EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins.


Freedom is not free lad, it costs blood, innocent blood.
Srsly, in some threads, americans shouldnt be able to post.
Too much obnoxiousness


hey man im american and i agree with the cost of freedom and yet how i'm willing to pay for it

ignore the neocon :D

jkjkjk but srsly freedom is the greatest thing on earth
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
HamerD
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom1922 Posts
December 17 2008 20:18 GMT
#123
I'd say society is the greatest thing on earth. I don't want to be entirely free, I want to have obligations to help and aid and i want others to have obligations to serve and protect. But then again at least I have the freedom to sacrifice my freedom in the first place. So I guess I agree. But then again, philosophically, I don't believe any of us have freedom, so there ya go.

Ps this thread was pretty old news when posted, just sayin'. Moar kurant apheirs peepul.
"Oh no, we've drawn Judge Schneider" "Is that bad?" "Well, he's had it in for me ever since I kinda ran over his dog" "You did?" "Yeah...if you replace the word *kinda* with *repeatedly*...and the word *dog* with son"
closed
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Vatican City State491 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-17 20:28:00
December 17 2008 20:23 GMT
#124
The riots are caused by economic reasons IMO. European Union is basically making people poor.
Especially the young. As described in the blog, there is a "700 euro generation" of overworked, underpaid and debt-ridden people. Such problems occur in the whole EU - e.g. in Italy, they have been talking about "1000 euro generation", there are problems with employment in France, which were "solved" by introducing 35h working weeks. The CEE countries such as Poland have big problems with emigration - a lot of young people travel to other EU countries, because instead of earning PLN 900 (which is not much), they can earn EUR 900, which is still not much, but a bit more in terms of purchasing power.

I have the feeling that free trade system will actually collapse, as it means that technically the incomes should get averaged - the Chinese will earn more, while everyone else will earn less. Perhaps bringing back duties could do it.
Its also the problem of introducing euro, the monetary policy and many other policies, which simply slow down the development e.g. Germany has been having economic problems for quite a long time now.

Not sure about such countries as France, or the UK; but the government sectors seem to be very inefficient in many EU countries - e.g. Greece, Italy, Poland etc.
nothingbutzerg
Profile Joined May 2006
Greece626 Posts
December 17 2008 20:48 GMT
#125
On December 18 2008 00:39 Track wrote:
The cop said the kids were throwing molotov cocktails at them and that he fired warning shots. Stupid kid deserved to die for trying to set a policeman on fire like that. Moreover, people vandalizing shops and attacking police officers trying to initiate change also deserve to be shot. It's simple self defense for the riot cops. Do you think these riot police officers are the ones making the economy bad? Yet these people are the ones who get assaulted by mobs.

Sorry m8 but story is complicated.Seems that the 15 yr old kid wasn't involved at all.He was at the wrong place the wrong time.In the area that he was,violence between anarchists and cops is quite often. The cop that killed him must have serious psychological problems because he decided to park his car and start chasing with his gun a party of people who offended him(different party),find in the way the party of the 15yr old kid and just aim,shoot ,kill him and leave.Here is a video showing the 2 cops leaving after the shooting.



As for the riots,it is true that in major cities all over Greece there has been havoc (i can tell you that in cities not as big as Athens,policemen were locked in their stations until things calm down a little bit,before going out to the streets again) but there are a couple of issues here but the major one is economical and the forthcoming crisis.

First of all Greece has Huge economical scandals and the 2 parties that have been in power for the last 25-30 years have gathered money and power,benefiting specific people(bankers,small group of businessmen,media).Greece compared to other EU nations is more expensive and people have the lowest income among all citizens in the EU.The specific political party that is in power since 2004 is facing HUUUGE economical scandals and people just couldn't take any more.some say that the riots could be controlled, but the government decided to let chaos and destruction so that public opinion would turn against the people who destroy everything and forget about the scandals.
Some say that they are just to incapable.You choose!
But the riots were for economical reason mostly because previous generations are forcing today's and the forthcoming ones into a society where they can't actually LIVE their LIVES !
as for the vandalism you all know that whenever things get out of control,there will always exist people who like to destroy everything around them.Situations like this have happened in France a couple of years ago,in LA almost 20 years ago and so on.....
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
December 17 2008 21:20 GMT
#126
I have the utmost sympathies for americans who have forgotten that their country is the result of a big ass riot.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
Megalisk
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States6095 Posts
December 17 2008 21:23 GMT
#127
On December 18 2008 06:20 L wrote:
I have the utmost sympathies for americans who have forgotten that their country is the result of a big ass riot.



That was a full blown revolution, and it kicked ass.

On a serious note, those are excellent pictures, that really capture the scope of what is going on.
Tear stained american saints and dirty guitar dreams across a universe of desert and blue sky , gas station coffee love letters and two dollar pistol kisses from thirty five dollar hotel room stationary .
jjun212
Profile Joined December 2004
Canada2208 Posts
December 17 2008 21:28 GMT
#128
This takes balls.

Canadian and American civilians balls are no where near as big as the rest World's peoples.

Of course, this is just a personal opinion but so much b.s happens here but not "bad enough" for the masses to take action. North Americans have their own prerogative to decide what they want to do but in the end, I think it's due to fear of the government.

Governments should be scared of their people, not the other way around.
Sky
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Jordan812 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-17 21:54:38
December 17 2008 21:53 GMT
#129
On December 18 2008 06:28 jjun212 wrote:
This takes balls.

Canadian and American civilians balls are no where near as big as the rest World's peoples.

Of course, this is just a personal opinion but so much b.s happens here but not "bad enough" for the masses to take action. North Americans have their own prerogative to decide what they want to do but in the end, I think it's due to fear of the government.

Governments should be scared of their people, not the other way around.


America and, I would assume, Canada have had their share of riots in the last century, not to mention large protests. As an American I find it hard to imagine myself rioting of trying to cause any problems with the current government considering I still have the opportunity to get food, shelter, and education for relatively cheap.

If those resources were pinched do you honestly think a riot in North America would be any different from those in Greece. To say we're afraid of our government is a bold statement, especially considering we are one of the most violent nations of the world.

Glad we got some posts from the greek(s), I had assumed that the whole situation was just violent protest, but I was wrong.

Does anyone know where I can get the picture in 1:19 of this video?



It gives me goosebumps looking at it.
...jumping into cold water whenever I get the chance.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-18 01:07:13
December 18 2008 01:06 GMT
#130
Some of the answers in this thread are quite funny ( Hi savio )
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
MyLostTemple *
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2921 Posts
December 18 2008 01:11 GMT
#131
On December 17 2008 14:23 Quesadilla wrote:
It's actually not that cool. People dying and getting set on fire for the cause of anarchy is pretty stupid.

Follow me on twitter: CallMeTasteless
thopol
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Japan4560 Posts
December 18 2008 03:03 GMT
#132
On December 18 2008 05:12 Caller wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2008 03:32 AdamBanks wrote:
On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:
On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote:
Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there.



Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument.


Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race.


Edit: For more information..
+ Show Spoiler +
Daily effects of white privilege by. Peggy MacIntosh
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social



Yay i love making broad generalizations about other people that make broad generalizations

fucking hypocrites.


If you're kidding that's kinda funny. If not it's kinda funny too. Different ways.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-18 03:16:27
December 18 2008 03:07 GMT
#133
Most of these riots, from anti-globalization to anti-government are just a bunch of teenagers and twenty-somethings who feel badass and enjoy throwing stones/breaking windows. Think about it: is it really a protest when a bunch of people go out, feel like victims in the face of police, and shout things / break things / throw things? No, it's a party. It's fun. If you really want to protest, do something you don't enjoy: please tell me when any of these rioters in masks throwing stones at police and burning cars decide to follow a real hunger strike, or practice self-immolation, or chain themselves up for weeks. Didn't think so.

Looking for some sort of ideological meaning in them is pretty pointless. In other words, these are riots for the sake of rioting, not protests for the sake of protesting.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
December 18 2008 03:09 GMT
#134
On December 18 2008 06:28 jjun212 wrote:
This takes balls.

Canadian and American civilians balls are no where near as big as the rest World's peoples.

Of course, this is just a personal opinion but so much b.s happens here but not "bad enough" for the masses to take action. North Americans have their own prerogative to decide what they want to do but in the end, I think it's due to fear of the government.

Governments should be scared of their people, not the other way around.


Yeah shame North America is so far behind Greece, Italy and Spain. Oh wait, those countries are not nearly as good in any metric.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
December 18 2008 03:20 GMT
#135
On December 18 2008 06:20 L wrote:
I have the utmost sympathies for americans who have forgotten that their country is the result of a big ass riot.


It wasn't a riot, it was a war. People who took part in it had a good chance of dying. The punishment for leading it was execution (if they had failed).

The events in Greece are a bunch of kids enjoying themselves with little to no risk because they are in a big group. There's a huge difference.
BatTheMan
Profile Joined July 2005
Canada759 Posts
December 18 2008 03:35 GMT
#136
I kind of agree with cz dumb teens thinking they will make a change by burning stuff.
They probably go home after the riot jump on facebook and send nudges and shit.
Ghandi knows where it`s at. Mad respect for him. Seriously defying authority is not cool anymore.
aka RichardNPL (RichardNamPhong@Azeroth)
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
December 18 2008 03:38 GMT
#137
On December 18 2008 12:35 BatTheMan wrote:
I kind of agree with cz dumb teens thinking they will make a change by burning stuff.
They probably go home after the riot jump on facebook and send nudges and shit.
Ghandi knows where it`s at. Mad respect for him. Seriously defying authority is not cool anymore.


It's not that they are misguided, ie you say "thinking they will make a change", it's just that their motivations are not even about protest, it's about having fun with the veneer of protesting some cause. While there is obviously a spark to all this, I am willing to bet 90% of the people in these riots know very little about it and are just out for the thrill of vandalism, immune from the law, and the feeling of being victimized by "the man" or "the corporations" or "the shadow govt" or whatever they view as controlling riot police.
cz
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States3249 Posts
December 18 2008 03:41 GMT
#138
There's also nothing wrong with defying authority, but there are ways to do so that don't hurt people who have no power in the situation (ie people who parked their cars on the street, shopowners) and get your message across.

There's the famous self-immolation of a Buddhist priest protesting the Vietnam War, Gandhi led several marches and told his people to fill the jails by requesting the harshest sentences, and there are obviously hunger strikes and self-containment by chaining yourself to something. You can also peacefully protest (ie a lot of the Iraq War protests in big cities). These people choose to riot not because they want to get a point across, but rather because everyone else is doing it and it's fun. Why go out to a rave when you can throw stones at windows?
SlickR12345
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Macedonia408 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-12-18 03:48:24
December 18 2008 03:43 GMT
#139
On December 17 2008 14:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Folca, are you retarded? I feel as though I should elaborate.

You are retarded. Democracy was founded in Greece, it was a less spread form however. It was in Athens where they had sort of a senate who decided things that happened, upper class people decided things instead of a king (I am not going to go into an entire history lesson, this is my brief summary)

Even today, they have a Democratic country, with an official elected by there parliament for a 5 year term. If you want to think that's not democratic because parliament elects him, then neither is America. Since popular vote doesn't actually elect people, its the electoral one.

They had democracy 2050 years ago, the rest 2049 years they have sociopathic-rule of chaos.

Go riot go...
Not to mention they are doing damage to themselfs and not their goverment and their corupted politicians and businessmen.
150 millions in damages in a year in recesion, hah... go riot go
BatTheMan
Profile Joined July 2005
Canada759 Posts
December 18 2008 03:47 GMT
#140
On December 18 2008 12:41 cz wrote:
There's also nothing wrong with defying authority, but there are ways to do so that don't hurt people who have no power in the situation (ie people who parked their cars on the street, shopowners) and get your message across.

There's the famous self-immolation of a Buddhist priest protesting the Vietnam War, Gandhi led several marches and told his people to fill the jails by requesting the harshest sentences, and there are obviously hunger strikes and self-containment by chaining yourself to something. You can also peacefully protest (ie a lot of the Iraq War protests in big cities). These people choose to riot not because they want to get a point across, but rather because everyone else is doing it and it's fun. Why go out to a rave when you can throw stones at windows?

yea we`re on the same page, you`re just more articulate about it.
division only leads to more division. Shit like that is going to happen more and more though until everything burns or evolves.
aka RichardNPL (RichardNamPhong@Azeroth)
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