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Hey guys
For anyone who wants a brief and rather objective overview of the situation here, I found this to be quite good http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Greek_riots. Obviously, the matter is too complicated to be easily summed up in a few paragraphs, but it should give you a good idea.
One basic thing that people here are getting wrong is that the riots are for the most part not "against police corruption". The causes are many and they are deeply political. And again, this is not about corruption, that's just the tip of the iceberg, I'm talking about the whole system. A lot of people here, even though not the majority, are politically educated enough for riots like this to even be possible. Anarchists are a minority and if a minority can cause meaningless chaos like what is shown in the pictures, you can imagine how many people took part in peaceful demonstrations and other "more civilised" acts triggered by the boy's murder. As someone else already said though, this is not what the media will ever show you. The media are part of the system anyway (always working for and not against it, no matter what seems to be the case in a first glance) and in a way, even though I'm sure most of them don't mean to, anarchists in the end work in the favour of what they're supposed to be struggling against (with that said, they are putting their asses on the line, so I hate seeing people bashing on them, unless they are already taking part in more meaningful political struggle on their own).
Overall, politics is such a complicated issue and should be treated by everyone as such. Many responses here are at least immature and even though I'd like to leave some comments to put some observations on what I believe would be a better track, I don't have the time and energy to do it and maybe even the english eloquence to be able to follow up the ensuing conversation.
Educate yourself politically people. Don't rush to jump to conclusions, but I believe everyone should at least attempt to see a bigger picture of our societies and their progress.
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The cop said the kids were throwing molotov cocktails at them and that he fired warning shots. Stupid kid deserved to die for trying to set a policeman on fire like that. Moreover, people vandalizing shops and attacking police officers trying to initiate change also deserve to be shot. It's simple self defense for the riot cops. Do you think these riot police officers are the ones making the economy bad? Yet these people are the ones who get assaulted by mobs.
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really really nice pictures
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On December 17 2008 17:54 MamiyaOtaru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2008 16:38 D10 wrote: there were endless cases where officers did tons of work just so they could ... not work wat
LOL
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On December 17 2008 17:29 .risingdragoon wrote: I'm not gonna read through this topic to see if someone else called you on this BS already. Suffice to say democracy in ancient Greece is for a very select few, where it's rigidly caste-based society that's far from the variety we have today. We're talking starcraft circa 2000 vs 2008 here, can't even be compared, totally different ballgame.
Democracy in Athens was not for a very select few. All Athenian men had the right to participate in the Ekklesia and all Athenian men of appropriate ages were eligible to be selected by lot to virtually any position within the government.
You could argue that democracy was for the only a few because slaves and metics could not participate. However, slaves and metics were not Athenians. Do resident aliens vote in the United States?
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The cop said the kids were throwing molotov cocktails at them and that he fired warning shots.
last thing i read the kids were throwing stones...
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Canada9720 Posts
On December 17 2008 22:44 Smorrie wrote:wow.. great pictures! the photographer should get a promotion asap !  the photos are from a variety of photographers, with credits to various news orgs.
but yeah, all the photos are really amazing. everyone should take a look
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i believe this will happen in Croatia also in a few years.
The current state is led by 200 families that spread the wealth during the privatization in 1995-1999. The rate of corruption is enormous ( you can buy out of tickets, buy exams on collage, money gets you everywhere ) and shit is about to keep the fan. There are only 2 political parties that have enough to pull the votes, and i don't realy know which one is worse.
What is happening in Greece ( 700 euro generation ) is happening here as we speak.
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On December 18 2008 00:39 Track wrote: The cop said the kids were throwing molotov cocktails at them and that he fired warning shots. Stupid kid deserved to die for trying to set a policeman on fire like that. Moreover, people vandalizing shops and attacking police officers trying to initiate change also deserve to be shot. It's simple self defense for the riot cops. Do you think these riot police officers are the ones making the economy bad? Yet these people are the ones who get assaulted by mobs.
Several eye witnesses' testiments contradict the cop's one. As it seems so far there was only verbal quarel.
And... these views of yours remind me of facism.Way to go!
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Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there.
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On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote: Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there.
Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument.
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You can always afford to move =p it's that they don't want to take the risk there are 2 types of moving planned where they get a job adn everything before they move and risk related where you just move and take up housing and job where you can. Apparently it's bad enough that they want to riot but not bad enough they want to move. People get used to a standard of living but apparently fear of the government is not greater then a loss of standard of living.
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Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.
EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins.
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When I saw the gas masks I thought of the combine in Half-Life 2.
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On December 18 2008 02:37 Savio wrote: Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.
EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins.
Freedom is not free lad, it costs blood, innocent blood. Srsly, in some threads, americans shouldnt be able to post. Too much obnoxiousness
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On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote: Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there. Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument.
Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race.
Edit: For more information.. + Show Spoiler +Daily effects of white privilege by. Peggy MacIntosh I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social
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On December 18 2008 03:14 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 02:37 Savio wrote: Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.
EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins. Freedom is not free lad, it costs blood, innocent blood. Srsly, in some threads, americans shouldnt be able to post. Too much obnoxiousness And from Brazil you know exactly what Greece is going though i mean come the fuck on Greece is part of the EU they have a pretty stable government set up. What are they making they work in slave camps in Greece not able to leave the country? Wtf is up with you people and revolution frankly you been watching too much movies and your mind been all polluted.They are fucking Free if you are free to leave you are free if you feel oppressed by your government leave that government god dam people. There is no refugee camp for people leaving Greece they are already free.
On December 18 2008 03:32 AdamBanks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote: Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there. Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument. Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race. I'm lower middle class White and Asian oh yeah my skin in brown engot jack ass go suck a racist rod or some shit. You porb don't even know what it means to live out of an apartment as a family. Also affordable housing i live in cali bay area has some of the highest cost of living in America.I'm going to a community college even though i was accepted into uc system because i didn't get enough scholarships so my family couldn't afford such shit so i'm going to cc for 1 ish years then transferring and taking out a government loan.
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Theres a greater freedom to be earn, that bond of trust with the government, with the police, the lack of it changes your life and your perceptions in ways you probably cant imagine.
I feel sad that you think this is all a bunch of revolution crap/too many movies, because a mock democracy filled with corruption, is nothing close to a real democracy.
the greeks are free to abandon theyr contry, theyr home, that theyr ancestors fought for millenia ago, or they can insurge again, against the crimes of the police/politicians, against a broken system that slowly drains all of the peoples morale.
The difference between Brazil and Greece, is that they wont take shit from theyr leaders, we do.
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On December 18 2008 03:33 IzzyCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 03:14 D10 wrote:On December 18 2008 02:37 Savio wrote: Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.
EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins. Freedom is not free lad, it costs blood, innocent blood. Srsly, in some threads, americans shouldnt be able to post. Too much obnoxiousness And from Brazil you know exactly what Greece is going though i mean come the fuck on Greece is part of the EU they have a pretty stable government set up. What are they making they work in slave camps in Greece not able to leave the country? Wtf is up with you people and revolution frankly you been watching too much movies and your mind been all polluted.They are fucking Free if you are free to leave you are free if you feel oppressed by your government leave that government god dam people. There is no refugee camp for people leaving Greece they are already free. Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 03:32 AdamBanks wrote:On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote: Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there. Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument. Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race. I'm lower middle class White and Asian oh yeah my skin in brown engot jack ass go suck a racist rod or some shit. You porb don't even know what it means to live out of an apartment as a family. Also affordable housing i live in cali bay area has some of the highest cost of living in America.
These things being true, why do you respond to my post? Its obviously not about you specifically but concerning general trends in society. Please do not be upset by a post that has nothing to do with you... I offered an explaination, it may be wrong or right in specific cases but generally this effect can be observed in society.
troll off?
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On December 18 2008 03:45 AdamBanks wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2008 03:33 IzzyCraft wrote:On December 18 2008 03:14 D10 wrote:On December 18 2008 02:37 Savio wrote: Buncha idiots. If I was a riot police and someone threw a molotav cocktail at me, I would unload an entire clip and them and their friends.
EDIT: When people go that far, they shouldn't complain when they start ending up in coffins. Freedom is not free lad, it costs blood, innocent blood. Srsly, in some threads, americans shouldnt be able to post. Too much obnoxiousness And from Brazil you know exactly what Greece is going though i mean come the fuck on Greece is part of the EU they have a pretty stable government set up. What are they making they work in slave camps in Greece not able to leave the country? Wtf is up with you people and revolution frankly you been watching too much movies and your mind been all polluted.They are fucking Free if you are free to leave you are free if you feel oppressed by your government leave that government god dam people. There is no refugee camp for people leaving Greece they are already free. On December 18 2008 03:32 AdamBanks wrote:On December 18 2008 02:30 KissBlade wrote:On December 18 2008 02:11 IzzyCraft wrote: Wonder where all those crush suits come from for the police in riot gear. Either way the kid that got shot is a duche. I blame not allowing them to carry guns lol cuz nothing saying i don't fear the police like your own shotgun! porb a good thing riots with guns = cops with guns = cops get assault rifles = they win. For serious if you deeply believe your government is corrupt why the fuck do you live there. Because they can't afford to move? I never get the whole "if you don't like it, move" argument. Middle-Upper Class (mostly white) males assume that everyone has the same privledges that they enjoy such as affordable housing in in area's that are occupied by people predominatly of their own race. I'm lower middle class White and Asian oh yeah my skin in brown engot jack ass go suck a racist rod or some shit. You porb don't even know what it means to live out of an apartment as a family. Also affordable housing i live in cali bay area has some of the highest cost of living in America. These things being true, why do you respond to my post? Its obviously not about you specifically but concerning general trends in society. Please do not be upset by a post that has nothing to do with you... I offered an explaination, it may be wrong or right in specific cases but generally this effect can be observed in society. troll off? If i wanted to troll i would go STFU CANADA! Anyways what can be observed is that upper middle class white at lest Americans don't like to move because most don't like change you don't generally become upper middle class by changing alot unless you're still young.=p
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