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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On November 20 2025 02:22 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 23:47 Billyboy wrote:On November 19 2025 19:26 zeo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:Are you telling me that this is not a rebuttal? You called the guy a fascist in your first sentence. Why would you expect anyone to take what you write after that seriously, though you did put effort into articulating why you think like you do with something you think backs up your claims. Which is at a far higher standard than the 'no u, reeeeee' crowd. Why would you expect someone to interact with you and address your claims if your first words are an insult? These are unhealthy interactions Why would calling Putin a fascist be an insult? It is the term that most accurately describes his form of government. Would calling a Lenin supporter a communist supporter being an insult? Or what about about fascism do you think doesn’t fit and what would be a better term? Myself, I hope every single person with a Nazi or WWII Nazi collaborator tattoo holding a weapon in Ukraine dies. Whatever nation or people they come from. Its a completely neutral stance 
Great but Nazi and fascist are not the same word. You get that right? Like Putin is obviously a fascist. If you disagree please explain why he is not. I’ll spoiler a list of characteristics of fascism for you.
+ Show Spoiler + Powerful, often exclusionary, populist nationalism centered on cult of a redemptive, “infallible”
leader who never admits mistakes.
2. Political power derived from questioning reality, endorsing myth and rage, and promoting lies.
3. Fixation with perceived national decline, humiliation, or victimhood.
4. White Replacement “Theory” used to show that democratic ideals of freedom and equality are a threat.
Oppose any initiatives or institutions that are racially, ethnically, or religiously harmonious.
5. Disdain for human rights while seeking purity and cleansing for those they define as part of the nation.
6. Identification of “enemies”/scapegoats as a unifying cause. Imprison and/or murder opposition and minority
group leaders.
7. Supremacy of the military and embrace of paramilitarism in an uneasy, but effective
collaboration with traditional elites. Fascists arm people and justify and glorify violence as “redemptive”
.
8. Rampant sexism.
9. Control of mass media and undermining “truth”.
10. Obsession with national security, crime and punishment, and fostering a sense of the nation under attack.
11. Religion and government are intertwined.
12. Corporate power is protected and labor power is suppressed.
13. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts not aligned with the fascist narrative.
14. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Loyalty to the leader is paramount and often more important than competence.
15. Fraudulent elections and creation of a one-party state.
16. Often seeking to expand territory through armed conflict.
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On November 20 2025 02:22 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 23:47 Billyboy wrote:On November 19 2025 19:26 zeo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:Are you telling me that this is not a rebuttal? You called the guy a fascist in your first sentence. Why would you expect anyone to take what you write after that seriously, though you did put effort into articulating why you think like you do with something you think backs up your claims. Which is at a far higher standard than the 'no u, reeeeee' crowd. Why would you expect someone to interact with you and address your claims if your first words are an insult? These are unhealthy interactions Why would calling Putin a fascist be an insult? It is the term that most accurately describes his form of government. Would calling a Lenin supporter a communist supporter being an insult? Or what about about fascism do you think doesn’t fit and what would be a better term? Myself, I hope every single person with a Nazi or WWII Nazi collaborator tattoo holding a weapon in Ukraine dies. Whatever nation or people they come from. Its a completely neutral stance
So you want the war to continue as they are fighting on the front lines against eachother? If someone dies that isn't the end of their story. They will take advantage of the continuing war as they kill eachother to make themselves seem more reasonable the longer the war drags on. Its very easy to recruit from a war ravaged and scared populice if you are a strongman promising anything possible.
If russia simply leaves Ukraine it would be a credit to the neo-liberal world rules based order and conquers won't be rewarded. If Ukraine surrenders it'll support facists' claims that not only can they take land from others for no reason but that they will be rewarded for trying.
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Russian Federation618 Posts
On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on.
Well, this.
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On November 20 2025 02:57 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on. Well, this.
Pretty sure you are not an Ukraine supporter...
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On November 19 2025 20:14 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on. Not having circlejerks is genuinely the goal we're trying to have, and perhaps I share fault for the cringe you refer to, but any discussions with relevancy tend to get buried by the back and forth with the Russian sympathizers, turning the thread into a downright shitfest. This is why I've suggested throwing the trolls out of here, but so far to no avail. Not that there are exactly leaps and bounds of progress happening in Ukraine to begin with, but anything worth discussing, such as the current problem surrounding the dramatic equipment shortage, as well as leadership casualties, allowing Russia to make much greater advances than before in the south, just gets drowned out in all the "Herp derp Z is corrupt! Nazis in Ukraine!" vomit If it's any consolation, this is somehow the least fucked up Ukraine discussion forum I know of. It's so much worse over on Reddit. And the less we talk about discussions on Twitter or Facebook the better
You know, you cannot make an appeal for arguing in good faith and then try to sneak in 'dramatic equipment shortage' as an established fact.
Never mind the whole 'fascist' discussion.
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On November 20 2025 04:14 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2025 20:14 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on. Not having circlejerks is genuinely the goal we're trying to have, and perhaps I share fault for the cringe you refer to, but any discussions with relevancy tend to get buried by the back and forth with the Russian sympathizers, turning the thread into a downright shitfest. This is why I've suggested throwing the trolls out of here, but so far to no avail. Not that there are exactly leaps and bounds of progress happening in Ukraine to begin with, but anything worth discussing, such as the current problem surrounding the dramatic equipment shortage, as well as leadership casualties, allowing Russia to make much greater advances than before in the south, just gets drowned out in all the "Herp derp Z is corrupt! Nazis in Ukraine!" vomit If it's any consolation, this is somehow the least fucked up Ukraine discussion forum I know of. It's so much worse over on Reddit. And the less we talk about discussions on Twitter or Facebook the better You know, you cannot make an appeal for arguing in good faith and then try to sneak in 'dramatic equipment shortage' as an established fact. Never mind the whole 'fascist' discussion.
See this is exactly what I'm talking about. We literally just had this discussion a few pages ago, where we linked to Ukranian pundits, tweets, videos, and articles, and discussed the situation. It all got buried in rusky bot trolls, and now you come in here a few pages later and go "I have NO idea what you guys are talking about!"
I'm not the one claiming dramatic equipment shortage, the current situation that is literally unfolding in front of us shows it, people on the front lines are claiming it, pundits are claiming it. You'd know that if the thread hadn't been hosed down in vomit and all relevant discussion buried
And what is the fascist discussion? There is no discussion to be had. Russia is a fascist country, by literally every definition in the book. Sticking your head into the sand and claiming otherwise is about as folly as claiming flat earth
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Finland963 Posts
Axios, Reuters and Financial Times (and possibly others) are reporting that US and Russia are close to a deal that they'll try to force Ukraine to accept. Ukraine has not been consulted on this, and EU has been kept out of the loop.
Reuters link
US proposals to end Russia's war involve Ukraine giving up land, some weapons, sources say
The U.S. has signalled to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that Ukraine must accept a U.S.-drafted framework to end the war with Russia that proposes Kyiv giving up territory and some weapons[...]
Some sources say that there's security guarantees attached to the proposal.
Axios through Reuters
It is a 28-point roadmap inspired by U.S. President Donald Trump's plan for the Gaza ceasefire, the news outlet reported. Similar to the Gaza plan, the proposal would consist of "peace in Ukraine, security guarantees, security in Europe, and future U.S. relations with Russia and Ukraine," Axios reported, citing sources.
Financial Times sources say that Ukraine needs to give up Donbass, curtail the size of its armed forces, secure the status of the Russian language, and no foreign troops allowed on its soil.
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I hope Ukraine/Europe tell them to go fuck themselves. It's very clear on whose side the US is. This is a worse deal than the one Ukraine already rejected. The previous version didn't stipulate a reduction in the size of the military.
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On November 20 2025 04:45 hexhaven wrote:Axios, Reuters and Financial Times (and possibly others) are reporting that US and Russia are close to a deal that they'll try to force Ukraine to accept. Ukraine has not been consulted on this, and EU has been kept out of the loop. Reuters linkShow nested quote +US proposals to end Russia's war involve Ukraine giving up land, some weapons, sources say
The U.S. has signalled to President Volodymyr Zelenskiy that Ukraine must accept a U.S.-drafted framework to end the war with Russia that proposes Kyiv giving up territory and some weapons[...] Some sources say that there's security guarantees attached to the proposal. Axios through ReutersShow nested quote + It is a 28-point roadmap inspired by U.S. President Donald Trump's plan for the Gaza ceasefire, the news outlet reported. Similar to the Gaza plan, the proposal would consist of "peace in Ukraine, security guarantees, security in Europe, and future U.S. relations with Russia and Ukraine," Axios reported, citing sources. Financial Times sources say that Ukraine needs to give up Donbass, curtail the size of its armed forces, secure the status of the Russian language, and no foreign troops allowed on its soil.
That's going to go about as well as last time they tried to push a peace deal through without consulting Ukraine. A peace deal requires both parties to agree. A security guarantee with "no foreign troops allowed on its soil" is genuinely worthless
Also, I do have to laugh about this part: secure the status of the Russian language That is so hilariously vain
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Top Italian court approves handover of Ukrainian Nord Stream suspect to GermanyMILAN, Nov 19 (Reuters) - Italy's top court has approved the handover to Germany of a Ukrainian man suspected of coordinating the 2022 sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipeline, his lawyer Nicola Canestrini said on Wednesday. The suspect, identified only as Serhii K. under German privacy laws, has been fighting attempts to transfer him to Germany since he was detained on a European arrest warrant in the Italian town of Rimini in August. The decision by the Court of Cassation in Rome means the suspect will be transferred to the German authorities in the next few days. (...) Last month a court in Poland ruled against handing over another Ukrainian suspect wanted by Germany in connection with the explosions and ordered his immediate release from detention. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/top-italian-court-approves-handover-ukrainian-nord-stream-suspect-germany-lawyer-2025-11-19/
I hope the trial in Germany won't turn into an international shitshow.
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I wonder who the Tony Blair for Ukraine will be?
Bozo Johnson is out, Putin hates him. Maybe Gerhard Schröder he seems to be one of the good ole boys and happy to work with Russians.
Also, while I understand the weight US has to throw around, it is my understanding that most if not all weapons that are going from US to Ukraine now are being bought by EU countries from the US to be given to Ukraine, the US did a soft pull back from this war and now wants to dictate what happens, not my position to say it, but fuck em.
This orange fucktard is trying to treat Ukraine like Hamas, a literal fucking terrorist organization, it makes my blood boil.
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Russian Federation618 Posts
On November 20 2025 03:00 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2025 02:57 Ardias wrote:On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on. Well, this. Pretty sure you are not an Ukraine supporter...
No, I'm not, but I would sign under every word from Russian side as well. Current discussion in general is a hateful shit throwing from both sides, which denies any possibility of good faith conversation, and at some point I felt like totally wasting my time writing those walls of text with dozen of carefully picked sources (due to total dismissal of any pro-Russian info here, which I tried to abide to) as I used to, which were taking me hours to do. Hence, while periodically checking the thread for common Westerner perspective (local established community gives better representation than random Reddit sub), in the last couple of years I've posted there only when I was beered and bored late in the evening, which isn't often.
Artesimo is actually a person heavily missed from the thread, since even though we had different stances in general, I enjoyed our discussions on different matters of this war, where it felt that even we don't agree on something, we both are being heard at least. Which is why, probably, our feeling on the thread is mutual, despite being on opposite sides.
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United States43803 Posts
War just doesn’t easily mesh with the modern expectation of daily news, updates, narratives. People would have been bored out of their mind with WW2 and campaigning seasons.
On a day to day basis there isn’t really anything to discuss. The negotiating positions of the two sides are irreconcilable and the military situation is fairly stable. Everything that needs to be said has been said about the causes of the war.
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Finland963 Posts
On November 20 2025 05:15 Jankisa wrote:
Also, while I understand the weight US has to throw around, it is my understanding that most if not all weapons that are going from US to Ukraine now are being bought by EU countries from the US to be given to Ukraine, the US did a soft pull back from this war and now wants to dictate what happens, not my position to say it, but fuck em.
This orange fucktard is trying to treat Ukraine like Hamas, a literal fucking terrorist organization, it makes my blood boil.
There's some reporting that this time around the US and Russia would try to force Ukraine to accept this deal. US can still pressure the EU quite a bit.
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On November 20 2025 05:55 Ardias wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2025 03:00 Excludos wrote:On November 20 2025 02:57 Ardias wrote:On November 19 2025 18:28 Artesimo wrote:On November 19 2025 18:08 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 12:16 spets1 wrote:On November 19 2025 04:49 Excludos wrote:On November 19 2025 04:24 maybenexttime wrote:On November 19 2025 00:24 hexhaven wrote:On November 18 2025 19:49 Jankisa wrote:
Our guys here are in a bit of a media bubble and are a tad slow generally so they are behind the curve on what they are supposed to push at the moment.
It's these... let's call them state-approved talking points that keep popping up. From NATO expansion to root causes to the thrust towards Kyiv was just a distraction to now Zelensky's legitimacy. We'll see new versions being trotted out every once in a while, and some of them even try to stick around. And whenever the nonsense they're peddling is debunked they always avoid addressing the rebuttals. Then after a few weeks or months they come back are are pushing the same crap, pretending it hadn't been already debunked. That's the most frustrating part. They come in here and shit all over the thread, disappears for without addressing anything substantial, then returns a month later to vomit some more of their dear leader's talking points. It's just consistent bad faith arguments and trolling Imo this is because there like 10 people in this thread stoking each other non stop. And won't listen to any arguments. No matter what is said you guys live in a parallel universe where the facts are the same but you interpret them completely opposite. Some of us a smart enough not to engage cos there's no point. Let bigons be bigots You are the one living in some parallel universe. We do listen to argument. You just ignore the counterarguments. Feel free to address my rebuttal to the NATO threat nonsense. As an avid ukraine supporter, I 100% have checked out of engaging much in discussions in this thread because I often felt like the people on my side are as worth engaging with as zeo is. Its a "us vs them" by now, so no shot at any fruitful discussion and I realised that I started to show a little of the same tendencies so I dipped out. Now I just check up every now and then when there is a new development to see if maybe someone posted some interesting source, but any kind of discussion quickly has me cringe at everyone involved and I move on. Well, this. Pretty sure you are not an Ukraine supporter... No, I'm not, but I would sign under every word from Russian side as well. Current discussion in general is a hateful shit throwing from both sides, which denies any possibility of good faith conversation, and at some point I felt like totally wasting my time writing those walls of text with dozen of carefully picked sources (due to total dismissal of any pro-Russian info here, which I tried to abide to) as I used to, which were taking me hours to do. Hence, while periodically checking the thread for common Westerner perspective (local established community gives better representation than random Reddit sub), in the last couple of years I've posted there only when I was beered and bored late in the evening, which isn't often. Artesimo is actually a person heavily missed from the thread, since even though we had different stances in general, I enjoyed our discussions on different matters of this war, where it felt that even we don't agree on something, we both are being heard at least. Which is why, probably, our feeling on the thread is mutual, despite being on opposite sides.
While it's generally very much apparent that you (and some others on tl) support the Russian side of this war, it's not something thats normally spelled out this clear. So just to be clear you are supporting and essentially saying that Russia invading and starting a war with Ukraine is/was justified ?
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On November 20 2025 06:02 hexhaven wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2025 05:15 Jankisa wrote:
Also, while I understand the weight US has to throw around, it is my understanding that most if not all weapons that are going from US to Ukraine now are being bought by EU countries from the US to be given to Ukraine, the US did a soft pull back from this war and now wants to dictate what happens, not my position to say it, but fuck em.
This orange fucktard is trying to treat Ukraine like Hamas, a literal fucking terrorist organization, it makes my blood boil. There's some reporting that this time around the US and Russia would try to force Ukraine to accept this deal. US can still pressure the EU quite a bit.
If this was pre war, that might have been true, but US has currently spent all of its goodwill. Europe is already moving away from US at neck breaking speed. I don't think the current political landscape is such that any attempts to pressure EU/NATO into just letting Ukraine lose the war, or take a deal that is as bad as losing the war, is going to end well for anyone.
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For me there is no point in responding to the people in this thread because I can see that there is no way that the usuals in this thread will change their minds no matter what I say. That's why I put some feelers out and then see their response and it makes me 100% sure no matter what you say they will never change their mind. So there is no point wasting time writing anything. And those kinds of people are the only ones left here in this thread. The people that would scream and shove their point of view down your throat whilst being unaware of their own shortcomings and misunderstandings
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On November 20 2025 06:43 spets1 wrote:
For me there is no point in responding to the people in this thread because I can see that there is no way that the usuals in this thread will change their minds no matter what I say. That's why I put some feelers out and then see their response and it makes me 100% sure no matter what you say they will never change their mind. So there is no point wasting time writing anything. And those kinds of people are the only ones left here in this thread. The people that would scream and shove their point of view down your throat whilst being unaware of their own shortcomings and misunderstandings
It's hard to change anyone's mind when you never address the counterarguments, just repost the same debunked crap every few months.
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On November 20 2025 06:43 spets1 wrote:
For me there is no point in responding to the people in this thread because I can see that there is no way that the usuals in this thread will change their minds no matter what I say. That's why I put some feelers out and then see their response and it makes me 100% sure no matter what you say they will never change their mind. So there is no point wasting time writing anything. And those kinds of people are the only ones left here in this thread. The people that would scream and shove their point of view down your throat whilst being unaware of their own shortcomings and misunderstandings
I've seen your previous posts. Your points are consistently thoroughly debunked, with evidence I might add. People "being to stubborn to listen" when you're coming in with wrong information is genuinely a good thing. You not agreeing to counterarguments isn't the fault of anyone else in here, or just because people are being stubborn or pedantic, it's just a reflection of your own inability to accept facts when presented to you
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On November 20 2025 06:38 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2025 06:02 hexhaven wrote:On November 20 2025 05:15 Jankisa wrote:
Also, while I understand the weight US has to throw around, it is my understanding that most if not all weapons that are going from US to Ukraine now are being bought by EU countries from the US to be given to Ukraine, the US did a soft pull back from this war and now wants to dictate what happens, not my position to say it, but fuck em.
This orange fucktard is trying to treat Ukraine like Hamas, a literal fucking terrorist organization, it makes my blood boil. There's some reporting that this time around the US and Russia would try to force Ukraine to accept this deal. US can still pressure the EU quite a bit. If this was pre war, that might have been true, but US has currently spent all of its goodwill. Europe is already moving away from US at neck breaking speed. I don't think the current political landscape is such that any attempts to pressure EU/NATO into just letting Ukraine lose the war, or take a deal that is as bad as losing the war, is going to end well for anyone.
The problem is gas and IT. One of the major replacements for Russian gas was US. A large part of European IT runs on American platforms such as Windows, AWS, Azure etc. They also have the social media they can push, they own the platforms European users use and can thus push very skewed stories to people.
The other thing would be Trump pulling the tariff card the XX:th time in his presidency. Or forcing US/Nato to stop intelligence sharing with Ukraine.
But if you just wait him out for a month he will forget about it. So no worries.
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EPT
