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Manit0u
Poland17792 Posts
On December 30 2022 19:13 Simberto wrote: Closing air space where a war is happening to civilian flight sounds like a normal thing to do, though. They closed off air space over 600km into Russia. That's nowhere near the fighting. | ||
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Ardias
Russian Federation618 Posts
On December 30 2022 19:55 Manit0u wrote: They closed off air space over 600km into Russia. That's nowhere near the fighting. If you are talking about temporary closure of airspace in Saratov region - it's where Engels-2 airfield is located. It was attacked with UAV for the third time yesterday. Hence the closure, so air defence didn't hit anything civilian while tracking potential targets near the base. Otherwise - airspace in Crimea, Krasnodar and Stavropol regions is closed since 24.02. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5838 Posts
On December 30 2022 18:37 bracala wrote: I really hope Russia will hit with all in asap so they can end this war,all those sanctions EU countries put against Russia is more shot in their own leg. Im not sure how much more will EU citizens keep it quiet about bad life standard caused by those sanctions. But all normal people know the truth when this war finish i suppose USA and NATO will attack some other country to bring "democracy and peace" cause world is boring place without war :/ Cope harder, fascist. ;-) User was warned for this post | ||
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Simberto
Germany11926 Posts
Yeah. EU is over the worst with the sanctions, energy prices are starting to normalize. Except for the Russia-sponsored hard-right and hard-left parties, most people are totally on board with supporting Ukraine. I am also really confused how one can actually manage to frame this as "USA and NATO attacking a country". Who is the US and NATO attacking? Russia? In Ukraine? Well that seems easy to solve, just leave. Or is the US and NATO attacking Ukraine? Because those people who are in Ukraine bombing civilians and shooting the Ukrainian military don't look like NATO troops. Russia is already hitting with all they have, they are just still losing, because decades of corruption destroyed the Russian military. They are not holding back, they are just losing. Anyways, long story short: "Cope harder, fascist." | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On that note: I've been trying to dig up surveys from NATO and spectator countries including the question of popular support for Ukraine or Russia, but I wasn't able to find anything. Could someone help me? | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17792 Posts
On December 30 2022 20:06 Ardias wrote: If you are talking about temporary closure of airspace in Saratov region - it's where Engels-2 airfield is located. It was attacked with UAV for the third time yesterday. Hence the closure, so air defence didn't hit anything civilian while tracking potential targets near the base. Otherwise - airspace in Crimea, Krasnodar and Stavropol regions is closed since 24.02. They have closed the airspace around Engels airfield after they shot down their own SU-27 in the area during the missile attack they were conducting. Apparently some error in S300 systems which are controlled from a central unit or something. They shot down their own missiles in Belarus, Crimea, Russia and their own fighter jet. | ||
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warding
Portugal2396 Posts
On December 30 2022 21:44 Magic Powers wrote: If the US wanted, they could join the war. The Kremlin on the one hand spreads the lie that Russia is fighting the US by proxy in Ukraine, but on the other hand the truth that the US isn't joining directly because of nuclear deterrent. The combination of this lie with a truth makes for a powerful argument that convinces many people. On that note: I've been trying to dig up surveys from NATO and spectator countries including the question of popular support for Ukraine or Russia, but I wasn't able to find anything. Could someone help me? There have been a few multi-country sourveys on public support for Ukraine. Here's one on approval of EU support for Ukraine (done in Autumn of this year): 74% of EU citizens approve of the European Union's support for Ukraine following Russia's invasion, according to the survey conducted between 12 October and 7 November 2022. In all EU Member States, a majority of citizens approve of the EU’s support, with highest support levels shown in Sweden (97%), Finland (95%), the Netherlands (93%), Portugal (92%), and Denmark (92%). Ten months into the war in Ukraine, support for the concrete measures taken by the EU – such as sanctions against the Russian government or financial, military or humanitarian support to Ukraine – continues to be equally high at 73%. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IPR60901/eu-citizens-support-for-ukraine-is-solid-eurobarometer-survey-finds Actual survey: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2932 North and Eastern Europe with high levels of support, along with Iberia. Lower levels in Greece and southeastern Europe. Can anyone explain why only 47% of Slovaks approve of EU support for Ukraine? EDIT: Found this one, also relevant: https://tgmresearch.com/war-in-ukraine-2022-global-survey-results.html | ||
KwarK
United States44191 Posts
On December 30 2022 18:37 bracala wrote: I really hope Russia will hit with all in asap so they can end this war,all those sanctions EU countries put against Russia is more shot in their own leg. Im not sure how much more will EU citizens keep it quiet about bad life standard caused by those sanctions. But all normal people know the truth when this war finish i suppose USA and NATO will attack some other country to bring "democracy and peace" cause world is boring place without war :/ USA & NATO aren’t even in this war. Y’all are trying and failing to wipe out Ukrainians for reasons that don’t make any sense. What’s weirder is that your government declared that the people in Kherson are Russians and also that they will keep up their terror bombing campaign against those Russians until Ukraine gives in. Russia, according to its own new annexed borders, bombed a Christmas market in Russia and killed a bunch of Russians. Doesn’t that strike you as strange? | ||
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warding
Portugal2396 Posts
On December 30 2022 21:14 Simberto wrote: Yeah. EU is over the worst with the sanctions, energy prices are starting to normalize. Gas prices are lower today than in Jan 2022. Electricity prices: https://euenergy.live/ -1€/MWh in Germany, -2 €/MWh in Czechia. It's getting so bad, soon electricity companies will be paying people to consume electricity. | ||
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bracala
95 Posts
Is there thread about war in Lybia on this forum,would like to see what you guys wrote there? User was warned for this post | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On December 30 2022 23:15 warding wrote: There have been a few multi-country sourveys on public support for Ukraine. Here's one on approval of EU support for Ukraine (done in Autumn of this year): https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IPR60901/eu-citizens-support-for-ukraine-is-solid-eurobarometer-survey-finds Actual survey: https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/2932 North and Eastern Europe with high levels of support, along with Iberia. Lower levels in Greece and southeastern Europe. Can anyone explain why only 47% of Slovaks approve of EU support for Ukraine? EDIT: Found this one, also relevant: https://tgmresearch.com/war-in-ukraine-2022-global-survey-results.html Thanks a lot, that's very helpful. There seems to be a wide range of support from high/overwhelming to mild/moderate or slight lack thereof. I'm fairly disappointed in my fellow Austrians for only showing 60% support. This could help me navigate some potential landmines in conversations. But the mixed views in Slovakia are indeed surprising. I just found an earlier survey from March that shows most Slovaks consider the invasion an act of aggression by Russia, and another survey from September that shows one in three respondents preferring a Ukrainian victory as opposed to one in five preferring a Russian victory. https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/war-in-ukraine-shifting-opinions-of-slovaks-towards-nato/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/most-slovaks-want-russia-to-win-ukraine-war/ I guess it's important to consider a substantial uncertainty in the credibility of these surveys. Maybe the results should be taken with a big grain of salt. | ||
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Slydie
1987 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:24 bracala wrote: lol when USA and Nato attack some country to bring "democracy" like Lybia and Yugoslavia for example thats ok but when Russia attack someone for the same reason thats genocide and internet trolls is on fire. Is there thread about war in Lybia on this forum,would like to see what you guys wrote there? Whataboutism like that does not fly here. The US did face a major backlashes both in Vietnam and Irak if you want to talk about a more similar military operations, but those are not what we discuss right now. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11926 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:24 bracala wrote: lol when USA and Nato attack some country to bring "democracy" like Lybia and Yugoslavia for example thats ok but when Russia attack someone for the same reason thats genocide and internet trolls is on fire. Is there thread about war in Lybia on this forum,would like to see what you guys wrote there? You will find that a lot of people here are quite opposed to the US attacks on other countries in the past, and clearly stated that, too. Especially Iraq and Afghanistan were viewed very critically. Yugoslavia was before most of the people on this forum were old enough to be in any way involved in politics, and is not really that relevant to us today. Doesn't change the fact that right now, it is Russia doing it. And yes, there are different reasons for going to war, some of which may sometimes even be legitimate (But generally, i am very sceptical and would tend to say that not going to war tends to be the better decision at least 9 out of 10 times). Russia is currently using the very worst reason, "I want more territory". If the US was currently randomly invading Canada to annex it, you would almost certainly get similar reactions to those to Putins war. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:24 bracala wrote: lol when USA and Nato attack some country to bring "democracy" like Lybia and Yugoslavia for example thats ok but when Russia attack someone for the same reason thats genocide and internet trolls is on fire. Is there thread about war in Lybia on this forum,would like to see what you guys wrote there? I doubt you'll find too many people here who would show uncritical support for the wars the US started, or even all the ones it entered. I might be wrong, but I haven't noticed anyone who sees things so black and white. Furthermore, the US has a fairly limited record of human rights violations and war crimes. Even adding civilian casualties into the argument, Russia outperforms the US at least tenfold on every single one of the points of criticism. In fact it's probably a hundredfold in Ukraine right now. So if you want to argue which country has a worse record, Russia should be a leading priority. Lastly, valid criticism of US intervention does not excuse an invasion by Russia. It just doesn't, that argument doesn't work. Even children learn early on that two wrongs don't make a right. That's even more the case when Russia is killing people at a nearly unprecedented rate. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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bracala
95 Posts
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KwarK
United States44191 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:40 bracala wrote: Bro my close friends died during Nato bombing 99,they was civilians and cluster bombs was droped on market in town Nis during the day. I felt the war,do you? Im pretty sure you didnt read about that in USA news or UK news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuIkumsUWTU https://amp.theguardian.com/world/1999/may/08/balkans It took 10 seconds and a google of NATO + bombing + Nis to find English news reporting on it. This is classic Russians assuming that because their media lies all media lies. | ||
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bracala
95 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:37 JimmiC wrote: Edit: not sure why formatting was so bad but easier to just delete the whole post. The tldr was Libya and Ukraine are not at all relateable. Dude my close family worked in Lybia for more then 10 years,i was totaly aware about situation and trust me people lived so much better with Gadafi. Look Lybia now and before USA bring "democracy" | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5838 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:24 bracala wrote: lol when USA and Nato attack some country to bring "democracy" like Lybia and Yugoslavia for example thats ok but when Russia attack someone for the same reason thats genocide and internet trolls is on fire. Is there thread about war in Lybia on this forum,would like to see what you guys wrote there? User was warned for this post Can you go beyond the idiotic Kremlin talking points? Russian propaganda is openly proclaiming genocidal intentions: https://ria.ru/20220403/ukraina-1781469605.html Serbs in Yugoslavia were committing a genocide. NATO's intervention was justified, unless you support genocide. In Libya, Gaddafi's troops were intentionally bombing civilians. Intervening was also justified. Meanwhile, nothing was happening in Ukraine until Russia started stirring shit and invaded. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11926 Posts
On December 31 2022 01:44 bracala wrote: Dude my close family worked in Lybia for more then 10 years,i was totaly aware about situation and trust me people lived so much better with Gadafi. Look Lybia now and before USA bring "democracy" Your family sure does get around. Lybia, Nis, ... almost as if for any whataboutism you have in your portfolio, there was someone of your family and friends there to proof it. Is that how it works in Russia? Stuff is only true if you know someone who was involved, but once you claim that, you become an absolute authority on it? | ||
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