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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
geod
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Vietnam450 Posts
August 06 2022 16:23 GMT
#3641
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/22/natos-membership-rules-invite-conflict-benefit-putin/
Shocking news. A "pro Russia" article from WashingtonPost creates a conspiracy story that Ukraine process of joining Nato may be the cause of the war. They mock Nato - a defensive alliance by putting defensive in double quote. Such a disgusting propaganda.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
August 06 2022 16:45 GMT
#3642
The only reason to start the war to stop Ukraine from joining NATO is that in doing so you can invade Ukraine without getting Article 5'd... which just proves that he'd invade Ukraine regardless.
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5913 Posts
August 06 2022 18:08 GMT
#3643
On August 07 2022 01:23 geod wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/22/natos-membership-rules-invite-conflict-benefit-putin/
Shocking news. A "pro Russia" article from WashingtonPost creates a conspiracy story that Ukraine process of joining Nato may be the cause of the war. They mock Nato - a defensive alliance by putting defensive in double quote. Such a disgusting propaganda.

Why are you shitting up the thread? It's already been debunked so many times.

NATO has not once threatened Russia with military force, let alone with nuclear weapons. Russia, on the other hand, routinely threatens NATO with military force, violates the airspace of NATO countries, as well as the airspace of Sweden and Finland. It has also threatened NATO with nuclear strikes in case of NATO intervention in Ukraine. NATO has not moved its nuclear weapons closer to Russia in decades. Russia, on the other hand, deployed nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad and plans to deploy them in Belarus.

Russia's reaction to Finland joining the alliance shows that Russia is not really afraid of a NATO invasion/attack. It's an excuse meant to fool stupid people. Are you an idiot or a troll?
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-06 18:45:58
August 06 2022 18:45 GMT
#3644
On August 06 2022 17:53 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2022 16:41 xM(Z wrote:
i said the first time that NATO was not the cause for the invasion but the excuse(with other words) so i don't know what you want there.
i also said that Russia would've invaded anyway(under any other excuse they could come up with)

Edit: Putin went for a power grab. he wants Russia to be a superpower again and everything else is secondary. the native russians, the NATO, the nazis, the discrimination are irrelevant, and it's all you people talk in here.

Edit1: just look at the map and what territories he wants - was the gas/oil reserves around Crimea, was the ore deposits/metallurgical plants from Luhanks and Donetsk, was the grain production and export routes through Ukrainian Black Sea ports etc.

Have you ever considered that the way people do not understand you, you do not understand them? Almost no one believes Russia attacked for any of their stated reasons. People are trying to explain to the one guy who does, or is trolling, why those reasons are BS.
i don't know what world you're living in but a lot of lefties, western lefties, are giving Putin a lot of leeway for his invasion by using NATO expansion as a valid/justified cause for it.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
geod
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Vietnam450 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-06 19:17:09
August 06 2022 19:15 GMT
#3645
On August 07 2022 03:08 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2022 01:23 geod wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/22/natos-membership-rules-invite-conflict-benefit-putin/
Shocking news. A "pro Russia" article from WashingtonPost creates a conspiracy story that Ukraine process of joining Nato may be the cause of the war. They mock Nato - a defensive alliance by putting defensive in double quote. Such a disgusting propaganda.

Why are you shitting up the thread? It's already been debunked so many times.

NATO has not once threatened Russia with military force, let alone with nuclear weapons. Russia, on the other hand, routinely threatens NATO with military force, violates the airspace of NATO countries, as well as the airspace of Sweden and Finland. It has also threatened NATO with nuclear strikes in case of NATO intervention in Ukraine. NATO has not moved its nuclear weapons closer to Russia in decades. Russia, on the other hand, deployed nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad and plans to deploy them in Belarus.

Russia's reaction to Finland joining the alliance shows that Russia is not really afraid of a NATO invasion/attack. It's an excuse meant to fool stupid people. Are you an idiot or a troll?

What the f@ck are you talking about? Which shit misled you into believing that i'm trying to make excuse for the invasion of Russia?
Pointing out the cause consequence relationship betweens two things doesn't necessarily mean making excuse for the consequence one or saying it's justified.
The Washington post article is an example.
Are you an idiot or a troll?
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9336 Posts
August 06 2022 19:37 GMT
#3646
On August 07 2022 03:45 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2022 17:53 JimmiC wrote:
On August 06 2022 16:41 xM(Z wrote:
i said the first time that NATO was not the cause for the invasion but the excuse(with other words) so i don't know what you want there.
i also said that Russia would've invaded anyway(under any other excuse they could come up with)

Edit: Putin went for a power grab. he wants Russia to be a superpower again and everything else is secondary. the native russians, the NATO, the nazis, the discrimination are irrelevant, and it's all you people talk in here.

Edit1: just look at the map and what territories he wants - was the gas/oil reserves around Crimea, was the ore deposits/metallurgical plants from Luhanks and Donetsk, was the grain production and export routes through Ukrainian Black Sea ports etc.

Have you ever considered that the way people do not understand you, you do not understand them? Almost no one believes Russia attacked for any of their stated reasons. People are trying to explain to the one guy who does, or is trolling, why those reasons are BS.
i don't know what world you're living in but a lot of lefties, western lefties, are giving Putin a lot of leeway for his invasion by using NATO expansion as a valid/justified cause for it.


Reminds me of pope Francis. Lots of people really believe cancerous entities like the Russian government just want to be left alone, and cooperating with third parties to protect your independence is an "unprovoked provocation" that somehow forces them to be aggressive.
You're now breathing manually
maybenexttime
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Poland5913 Posts
August 06 2022 19:53 GMT
#3647
On August 07 2022 04:15 geod wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2022 03:08 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 07 2022 01:23 geod wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/22/natos-membership-rules-invite-conflict-benefit-putin/
Shocking news. A "pro Russia" article from WashingtonPost creates a conspiracy story that Ukraine process of joining Nato may be the cause of the war. They mock Nato - a defensive alliance by putting defensive in double quote. Such a disgusting propaganda.

Why are you shitting up the thread? It's already been debunked so many times.

NATO has not once threatened Russia with military force, let alone with nuclear weapons. Russia, on the other hand, routinely threatens NATO with military force, violates the airspace of NATO countries, as well as the airspace of Sweden and Finland. It has also threatened NATO with nuclear strikes in case of NATO intervention in Ukraine. NATO has not moved its nuclear weapons closer to Russia in decades. Russia, on the other hand, deployed nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad and plans to deploy them in Belarus.

Russia's reaction to Finland joining the alliance shows that Russia is not really afraid of a NATO invasion/attack. It's an excuse meant to fool stupid people. Are you an idiot or a troll?

What the f@ck are you talking about? Which shit misled you into believing that i'm trying to make excuse for the invasion of Russia?
Pointing out the cause consequence relationship betweens two things doesn't necessarily mean making excuse for the consequence one or saying it's justified.
The Washington post article is an example.
Are you an idiot or a troll?

Never said any such thing. Learn to read. Excuse as in false reason.

There is no "cause consequence" relationship to point out. As I already explained, there is ample evidence that Russia is genuinely not afraid of any NATO attack so Ukraine trying to join NATO was not the trigger.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-06 21:20:45
August 06 2022 21:20 GMT
#3648
Apparently there is been a small Ukrainian offensive taking place near Izyum. If continues then Ukraine successfully crossed the river during the fighting.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
August 07 2022 00:19 GMT
#3649
Saying that Ukraine forced you to invade by considering joining NATO is like saying that your neighbor forced you to fatally shoot him by considering buying body armor.
May the BeSt man win.
geod
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Vietnam450 Posts
August 07 2022 02:34 GMT
#3650
On August 07 2022 04:53 maybenexttime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2022 04:15 geod wrote:
On August 07 2022 03:08 maybenexttime wrote:
On August 07 2022 01:23 geod wrote:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/22/natos-membership-rules-invite-conflict-benefit-putin/
Shocking news. A "pro Russia" article from WashingtonPost creates a conspiracy story that Ukraine process of joining Nato may be the cause of the war. They mock Nato - a defensive alliance by putting defensive in double quote. Such a disgusting propaganda.

Why are you shitting up the thread? It's already been debunked so many times.

NATO has not once threatened Russia with military force, let alone with nuclear weapons. Russia, on the other hand, routinely threatens NATO with military force, violates the airspace of NATO countries, as well as the airspace of Sweden and Finland. It has also threatened NATO with nuclear strikes in case of NATO intervention in Ukraine. NATO has not moved its nuclear weapons closer to Russia in decades. Russia, on the other hand, deployed nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad and plans to deploy them in Belarus.

Russia's reaction to Finland joining the alliance shows that Russia is not really afraid of a NATO invasion/attack. It's an excuse meant to fool stupid people. Are you an idiot or a troll?

What the f@ck are you talking about? Which shit misled you into believing that i'm trying to make excuse for the invasion of Russia?
Pointing out the cause consequence relationship betweens two things doesn't necessarily mean making excuse for the consequence one or saying it's justified.
The Washington post article is an example.
Are you an idiot or a troll?

Never said any such thing. Learn to read. Excuse as in false reason.

There is no "cause consequence" relationship to point out. As I already explained, there is ample evidence that Russia is genuinely not afraid of any NATO attack so Ukraine trying to join NATO was not the trigger.

Are you stupid or trolling?

User was warned for this post
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-07 07:11:51
August 07 2022 06:23 GMT
#3651
Stop derailing the thread please.

Looks like RU went all out by sending remaining reserves to Kherson, especially from Izyum. But this means its offensives stall and UA can counteract where RU is weakest (Izyum now). Two points: UA is forcing RU to play whack-a-mole on defence with its remaining troops, so that UA can avoid large losses on the counteroffensive. Also, I don't understand how bringing more troops to Kherson where they have supply problems will help in the long run, they'll just run out of supplies quicker...

Edit: Follow up on the Amnesty scandal, this is the author of the report.

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-07 13:05:21
August 07 2022 12:53 GMT
#3652
According to TASS, Russian news agency, the leader of the head of Military Occupation in Kherson has died after being gunned down yesterday in his home.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-07 13:06:01
August 07 2022 13:03 GMT
#3653
.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 07 2022 13:05 GMT
#3654
My bad, fixed.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-07 13:57:53
August 07 2022 13:57 GMT
#3655
Sweden sending military instructors to the UK to train new troops from Ukraine.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 07 2022 20:47 GMT
#3656
Another big explosion at the Antonovsky bridge.

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
geod
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Vietnam450 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-08 12:15:37
August 08 2022 12:14 GMT
#3657
Amnesty reaction:
"“deeply regrets the distress and anger”"
but
“we fully stand by our findings”
Dare say the truth that many people don't want to hear and stick with it. Have my respect!
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/8/7/amnesty-regrets-distress-and-anger-caused-by-ukraine-report?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-08 12:32:26
August 08 2022 12:19 GMT
#3658
Not really sure about the overall situation in Kherson but it seems to be getting worse.



On the night of 7 August, the Ukrainian Armed Forces struck the points of temporary deployment of Russian troops at industrial facilities in Melitopol [a city in southern Ukraine, in Zaporizhzhia Oblast which has been occupied by Russia – ed.] using HIMARS (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System).

"Last night, high-precision HIMARS rockets struck the points of temporary deployment of the Russian occupying forces at industrial facilities in several of Melitopol’s districts, causing fire damage.

Early reports indicate that a large amount of [Russian] military equipment has been destroyed. Over 100 Russian soldiers who were spending the night in temporary barracks [at those sites] received their tickets to Iosif Kobzon’s concert [i.e., were killed; Iosif Kobzon was a Russian singer who has become a symbol of an outdated Soviet aesthetic; he died in 2018 - ed.]; their parents are already selecting the make and colour of their Lada cars [referring to an interview with a grieving mother and father who proudly bought a new Lada car with the "coffin money" given to them after their son was killed in Ukraine. The interview was broadcast on Russia-1 as part of a propaganda package on how the Kremlin helps families of dead soldiers – ed.]."

Fedorov said that Russian forces had transferred a significant portion of their air defence systems from Melitopol to Kherson last week.

The mayor added that last night was the most productive one for the Ukrainian troops in the region; Russian air defence systems are no longer capable of withstanding the Ukrainian HIMARS attacks.

He believes that this creates favourable grounds for a successful counteroffensive on the Melitopol front.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-08 12:44:09
August 08 2022 12:42 GMT
#3659
UA being silent is generally a good sign. They generally only make statements during offensives when they either need more assistance or for misleading purposes. So, whatever they're doing is probably still going according to plan.

We can try inferring something from the increases in RU casualty rates or from the re-emergence of videos like the one below of intact RU equipment being recovered by UA forces, suggesting that RU troops are retreating haphazardly or intentionally abandoning their posts. But... these might be from Izyum/Zaporizhzhia and not Kherson.

Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-08-08 13:26:42
August 08 2022 13:23 GMT
#3660
They are just paving over the holes in the bridge...? What?!



Finland also sending military personnel to the UK to train Ukrainian soldiers. Following Sweden doing the same.

Finland will send approximately 20 service personnel to the United Kingdom to take part in a training programme for the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

The training programme is led by the UK, which has asked partner nations for support. According to the UK, the aim of the programme is to provide basic soldier training to as many as 10,000 Ukrainian volunteers. The programme will take place during this year.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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