EPTOn August 05 2022 17:48 geod wrote:
You do have a serious issue of understanding whatever you read. I repeat one more time:
- Ukraine doesn't have a strategic gas reserve in the EU need context while EU is currently depending on Russia's gas. In idea situation Ukraine can self satisfy its gas need in near future but that's it.
After the full scale war outbreaks, from all side talks, it is obviously that Ukraine can't join NATO in a forseable future. NATO, Russia and Ukraine all said the same thing. I didn't use the word "failure" but i'm fine with it.
"Ukraine has failed to achieved its objective" as "joining NATO" was their objective to achieve their natinal security:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitutional-amendment-on-nato-eu-membership/29779430.html
What wrong, what controversie with it? Is this that hard for you to understand?
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2022 16:46 Magic Powers wrote:
Russia invading Ukraine resulting in their temporary inability to join NATO is "Ukraine's failure"?
They were well on their way to join NATO just prior to the war. Public support was also at an all-time high. The only real obstacle was NATO itself. This is exactly one of the main reasons why Putin invaded at this point in time, to permanently prevent Ukraine from joining. This is not speculation, it's a strongly substantiated theory supported by many people in politics. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to create controversy where there is none.
And the numbers for Ukraine's economic ambitions are all well known.
"Ukraine's largest natural gas fields are about 80-85% depleted although there are still large quantities of unexploited gas reserves stored in hard-to-reach areas or solid rock.[37] Ukraine has Europe's third-largest shale gas reserves at 1.2 trillion cubic meters (tcm).[21] There are two potentially large shale gas fields.[21] The Yuzivska gas field located in Donetsk Oblast (province) and Kharkiv Oblast, and the Olesska gas field in Lviv Oblast and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast.[21] Ukraine signed a 50-year production sharing agreement with Royal Dutch Shell on 25 January 2013 involving the Yuzivska shale gas field.[3][27] The $10 billion deal was the largest foreign direct investment ever for Ukraine.[27] Full shale gas production was expected to depend on successful results from 15 test wells.[27] On 13 September 2013 Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov stated that the (containing all expenditures) price of shale gas will be $120–130 per 1,000 cubic meters.[38] Ukraine originally expected commercial shale gas extraction to begin in 2017,[39][nb 7] but Shell pulled out of the Yuzivska project in 2015 as a consequence of the war in the Donbas region,[40] located near the field, a collapse in European natural gas prices,[14] and opposition from local residents.[37] Similarly, Chevron abandoned the Olesska project due to increased geopolitical risks and a collapse in European natural gas prices.[14]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine#:~:text=Ukraine has Europe's third-largest,Oblast and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast.
"Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury."
https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/industries/mining/#:~:text=Ukraine has extremely rich and,magnesium, timber, and mercury.
If Ukraine wins this war and stabilizes, big companies will be flocking there to establish themselves.
On August 05 2022 16:28 geod wrote:
Zelenskyy says Ukraine 'must admit' it won't join NATO and its people must 'rely on themselves and our partners who help us'
https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-says-ukraine-admit-it-wont-join-nato-russia-invasion-2022-3
"I have cooled down regarding this question a long time ago after we understood that ... NATO is not prepared to accept Ukraine," Zelensky said in an interview aired Monday night on ABC News.
"The alliance is afraid of controversial things, and confrontation with Russia," the president added.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership
I don't know Ukrainian so it's up to your taste to trust a tweet with 892 followers. You miss the point however. It's not about the tone of Zelensky's speech but it's about the faillure of Ukraine's NATO joining plan to achieve its national security.
You said what I said about Ukraine gas reserve is not at the strategic level for EU's need is irrelevant then you said a lot more about it and of course without any number. Well ...
On August 05 2022 15:07 Magic Powers wrote:
In the link you provided there's a comment correcting this misinformation. Somehow you manage to miss that.
"The article is based on a wrong translation of Zelenski's words. He did NOT say "Ukraine will not become a member of NATO". He said Ukraine is not a NATO member NOW. Context: He was referring to arguments concerning using article 5 to defend Ukraine - which is of course impossible since Ukraine is not a NATO member NOW. Several people noticed that mistake and posted correct translations on NEXTA's twitter."
Always question news articles, they often come with very significant errors. This source didn't even bother to post an updated version with the correct news.
Below is the correct translation.
Either way, the reason why Ukraine isn't joining NATO is because they're currently at war. They literally can't join.
https://twitter.com/CrunchMasterByz/status/1503764002215768067?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1503764181098586115|twgr^a0092994c2beb39dbc2b6b9a38c6ec21e27250e1|twcon^s3_&ref_url=https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-nato-russia-putin-war-ukraine-1688145
What you said about gas in Ukraine is also irrelevant. Ukraine has a large amount of gas stored that can be accessed. The reason why it wasn't happening is - guess what - due to the threat of war, which I guess the big companies like Shell predicted perfectly. This further encourages Ukraine and Europe as a whole to win this war and to add another member to the EU and NATO, as this would create the necessary stability for future gas mining and export.
Ukraine is in fact one of the most resource rich countries on this planet, there's a whole lot to be gained in preventing them from falling to Russia.
On August 05 2022 12:27 geod wrote:
https://www.worldometers.info/gas/gas-reserves-by-country/
Ukraine doesn't have a strategic gas reserve. In ideal condition with western investment of tech and finance they can self-provide after one decade or two that's it. In reality they buy gas from Russia directly or indirectly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine
Ukraine stopped buying gas from Russia in November 2015 to reduce gas dependence after the outbreak of the Ukraine crisis,[8] but instead buys it indirectly from traders in Western Europe as part of the Russian gas that transits through Ukraine.
Trying to join NATO is apparently a wrong move of Ukraine as it turns out no one wants it. NATO wants Ukraine fight for them but not the otherway around.
https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-nato-russia-putin-war-ukraine-1688145
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has accepted that his country will not become a member of NATO, one of the demands made by Russia before it invaded.
"For years we've heard the opposite, open doors, However, it is not," he said according to Ukrainian news outlet, Trukha. "Our people understand this, and we are beginning to count on our own strength," he added.
"Kyiv needs new formats of interaction with the West and separate security guarantees."
https://www.worldometers.info/gas/gas-reserves-by-country/
Ukraine doesn't have a strategic gas reserve. In ideal condition with western investment of tech and finance they can self-provide after one decade or two that's it. In reality they buy gas from Russia directly or indirectly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine
Ukraine stopped buying gas from Russia in November 2015 to reduce gas dependence after the outbreak of the Ukraine crisis,[8] but instead buys it indirectly from traders in Western Europe as part of the Russian gas that transits through Ukraine.
Trying to join NATO is apparently a wrong move of Ukraine as it turns out no one wants it. NATO wants Ukraine fight for them but not the otherway around.
https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-nato-russia-putin-war-ukraine-1688145
Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has accepted that his country will not become a member of NATO, one of the demands made by Russia before it invaded.
"For years we've heard the opposite, open doors, However, it is not," he said according to Ukrainian news outlet, Trukha. "Our people understand this, and we are beginning to count on our own strength," he added.
"Kyiv needs new formats of interaction with the West and separate security guarantees."
In the link you provided there's a comment correcting this misinformation. Somehow you manage to miss that.
"The article is based on a wrong translation of Zelenski's words. He did NOT say "Ukraine will not become a member of NATO". He said Ukraine is not a NATO member NOW. Context: He was referring to arguments concerning using article 5 to defend Ukraine - which is of course impossible since Ukraine is not a NATO member NOW. Several people noticed that mistake and posted correct translations on NEXTA's twitter."
Always question news articles, they often come with very significant errors. This source didn't even bother to post an updated version with the correct news.
Below is the correct translation.
Either way, the reason why Ukraine isn't joining NATO is because they're currently at war. They literally can't join.
https://twitter.com/CrunchMasterByz/status/1503764002215768067?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1503764181098586115|twgr^a0092994c2beb39dbc2b6b9a38c6ec21e27250e1|twcon^s3_&ref_url=https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-nato-russia-putin-war-ukraine-1688145
What you said about gas in Ukraine is also irrelevant. Ukraine has a large amount of gas stored that can be accessed. The reason why it wasn't happening is - guess what - due to the threat of war, which I guess the big companies like Shell predicted perfectly. This further encourages Ukraine and Europe as a whole to win this war and to add another member to the EU and NATO, as this would create the necessary stability for future gas mining and export.
Ukraine is in fact one of the most resource rich countries on this planet, there's a whole lot to be gained in preventing them from falling to Russia.
Zelenskyy says Ukraine 'must admit' it won't join NATO and its people must 'rely on themselves and our partners who help us'
https://www.businessinsider.com/zelenskyy-says-ukraine-admit-it-wont-join-nato-russia-invasion-2022-3
"I have cooled down regarding this question a long time ago after we understood that ... NATO is not prepared to accept Ukraine," Zelensky said in an interview aired Monday night on ABC News.
"The alliance is afraid of controversial things, and confrontation with Russia," the president added.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-in-nod-to-russia-ukraine-says-no-longer-insisting-on-nato-membership
I don't know Ukrainian so it's up to your taste to trust a tweet with 892 followers. You miss the point however. It's not about the tone of Zelensky's speech but it's about the faillure of Ukraine's NATO joining plan to achieve its national security.
You said what I said about Ukraine gas reserve is not at the strategic level for EU's need is irrelevant then you said a lot more about it and of course without any number. Well ...
Russia invading Ukraine resulting in their temporary inability to join NATO is "Ukraine's failure"?
They were well on their way to join NATO just prior to the war. Public support was also at an all-time high. The only real obstacle was NATO itself. This is exactly one of the main reasons why Putin invaded at this point in time, to permanently prevent Ukraine from joining. This is not speculation, it's a strongly substantiated theory supported by many people in politics. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to create controversy where there is none.
And the numbers for Ukraine's economic ambitions are all well known.
"Ukraine's largest natural gas fields are about 80-85% depleted although there are still large quantities of unexploited gas reserves stored in hard-to-reach areas or solid rock.[37] Ukraine has Europe's third-largest shale gas reserves at 1.2 trillion cubic meters (tcm).[21] There are two potentially large shale gas fields.[21] The Yuzivska gas field located in Donetsk Oblast (province) and Kharkiv Oblast, and the Olesska gas field in Lviv Oblast and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast.[21] Ukraine signed a 50-year production sharing agreement with Royal Dutch Shell on 25 January 2013 involving the Yuzivska shale gas field.[3][27] The $10 billion deal was the largest foreign direct investment ever for Ukraine.[27] Full shale gas production was expected to depend on successful results from 15 test wells.[27] On 13 September 2013 Ukrainian Prime Minister Mykola Azarov stated that the (containing all expenditures) price of shale gas will be $120–130 per 1,000 cubic meters.[38] Ukraine originally expected commercial shale gas extraction to begin in 2017,[39][nb 7] but Shell pulled out of the Yuzivska project in 2015 as a consequence of the war in the Donbas region,[40] located near the field, a collapse in European natural gas prices,[14] and opposition from local residents.[37] Similarly, Chevron abandoned the Olesska project due to increased geopolitical risks and a collapse in European natural gas prices.[14]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine#:~:text=Ukraine has Europe's third-largest,Oblast and Ivano-Frankivsk Oblast.
"Ukraine has extremely rich and complementary mineral resources in high concentrations and close proximity to each other. The country has abundant reserves of coal, iron ore, natural gas, manganese, salt, oil, graphite, sulfur, kaolin, titanium, nickel, magnesium, timber, and mercury."
https://ukraineinvest.gov.ua/industries/mining/#:~:text=Ukraine has extremely rich and,magnesium, timber, and mercury.
If Ukraine wins this war and stabilizes, big companies will be flocking there to establish themselves.
You do have a serious issue of understanding whatever you read. I repeat one more time:
- Ukraine doesn't have a strategic gas reserve in the EU need context while EU is currently depending on Russia's gas. In idea situation Ukraine can self satisfy its gas need in near future but that's it.
After the full scale war outbreaks, from all side talks, it is obviously that Ukraine can't join NATO in a forseable future. NATO, Russia and Ukraine all said the same thing. I didn't use the word "failure" but i'm fine with it.
"Ukraine has failed to achieved its objective" as "joining NATO" was their objective to achieve their natinal security:
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitutional-amendment-on-nato-eu-membership/29779430.html
What wrong, what controversie with it? Is this that hard for you to understand?
I will stop responding to you as you're either bad at communicating what your point is or ignoring the counter arguments.
