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On October 22 2024 22:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2024 19:36 Magic Powers wrote:
"Stopping somebody from killing you = right to exist."
Yes, we know. We know. If you threaten my family and kill my daughter, I have the right to kill you, your wife, your kids, your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, as well as destroy your apartment, your neighborhood, your district and your town. It's my right to exist. Establishing a right to exist begins with having babies and then nurturing the babies into childhood. Next, the civilization in question must develop those children into productive hard working young adults. Some of those young adults must die defending the nation. Any misstep along this path results in no country ... like Canada. As their Prime Minister stated .. Canada is a postnational state. Canada is an economic zone with arbitrary boundaries. Canada is not a country. Does it have the right to exist? I say, no it does not. Let's relate this to South Korea. So, you can have all these theory talks you like about whether or not South Korea has a right to exist. You can yell and scream about how moral and right and just it is for South Korea to own the land they are on. However, if their birth rate continues to decline they'll get invaded and someone will take their land. They will have deserved it 100%. As it is happening NA will have millions of people throughout NA sticking South Korea Flags on their car windows. Almost none of them will travel to South Korea and be willing to die defending the country though. When South Korea goes 50+ years with a sub 0.5 birthrate that continues to decline ... does it have a right to exist? I say, no it does not. Therefore, this entire "right to exist" debate is a baseless floating abstraction that does not deal in the essential conditions for a country's existence.
I don't think this is what people mean when they say 'right to exist'.
Canada's right to exist, for example, is reliant on the people in Canada, whether they want Canada to exist and whether or not those people have the right to self determination.
If the answer to both questions is yes, then by convention we say that Canada has the right to exist.
In Israel, it has been judged that Israelis have the right to self determination and Palestinians do not, which is why the state of Israel has the right to exist, and the hypothetical state of Palestine does not.
You could throw these conventions out of the window and speak of the 'right to exist' in a anthropological way like you have, but it is confusing for everyone because you aren't using the conventional meaning of the phrase.
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On October 22 2024 22:57 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2024 22:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 22 2024 19:36 Magic Powers wrote:
"Stopping somebody from killing you = right to exist."
Yes, we know. We know. If you threaten my family and kill my daughter, I have the right to kill you, your wife, your kids, your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, as well as destroy your apartment, your neighborhood, your district and your town. It's my right to exist. Establishing a right to exist begins with having babies and then nurturing the babies into childhood. Next, the civilization in question must develop those children into productive hard working young adults. Some of those young adults must die defending the nation. Any misstep along this path results in no country ... like Canada. As their Prime Minister stated .. Canada is a postnational state. Canada is an economic zone with arbitrary boundaries. Canada is not a country. Does it have the right to exist? I say, no it does not. Let's relate this to South Korea. So, you can have all these theory talks you like about whether or not South Korea has a right to exist. You can yell and scream about how moral and right and just it is for South Korea to own the land they are on. However, if their birth rate continues to decline they'll get invaded and someone will take their land. They will have deserved it 100%. As it is happening NA will have millions of people throughout NA sticking South Korea Flags on their car windows. Almost none of them will travel to South Korea and be willing to die defending the country though. When South Korea goes 50+ years with a sub 0.5 birthrate that continues to decline ... does it have a right to exist? I say, no it does not. Therefore, this entire "right to exist" debate is a baseless floating abstraction that does not deal in the essential conditions for a country's existence. I don't think this is what people mean when they say 'right to exist'. Canada's right to exist, for example, is reliant on the people in Canada, whether they want Canada to exist and whether or not those people have the right to self determination. If the answer to both questions is yes, then by convention we say that Canada has the right to exist. In Israel, it has been judged that Israelis have the right to self determination and Palestinians do not, which is why the state of Israel has the right to exist, and the hypothetical state of Palestine does not. You could throw these conventions out of the window and speak of the 'right to exist' in a anthropological way like you have, but it is confusing for everyone because you aren't using the conventional meaning of the phrase.
JimmyJ arbitrarily assigning new meaning to words and then arguing his semantics? Golly, we've never seen that before.
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It's honestly surreal watching a guy straight up repeating Nazi rhetoric pretty much word for word with the whole 'superior humans' shtick as a way to justify Israel's actions.
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On October 22 2024 19:36 Magic Powers wrote:
"Stopping somebody from killing you = right to exist."
Yes, we know. We know. If you threaten my family and kill my daughter, I have the right to kill you, your wife, your kids, your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, as well as destroy your apartment, your neighborhood, your district and your town. It's my right to exist.
Again, if you are a terrorist, and decide to keep your familiy close and start a war , it's perfectly normal for another family on the other side to ask their military to send a warning, another warning, another call for evactuation... followed by a small gbu to blow your ass up, instead of sending in their own kin into urban warfare.
On October 23 2024 00:22 Salazarz wrote:
It's honestly surreal watching a guy straight up repeating Nazi rhetoric pretty much word for word with the whole 'superior humans' shtick as a way to justify Israel's actions.
That's just everything I said through a blender reasembled wrong and interpreted in bad faith.
I said that (in some way) superior societies or forms for governments did replace others in a region throughout history, and that's just a fact and hard to rewind.
Israel is at war with iranian proxies.. that is understandable. Within the war IDF will kill civilians in lebanon and gaza, and potentially in iran.. which is nature of a war, since war sucks and can't be clean.
Israeli settlers killing arabs in westbank and pushing to steal land.. can't be justified.
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On October 23 2024 00:31 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2024 19:36 Magic Powers wrote:
"Stopping somebody from killing you = right to exist."
Yes, we know. We know. If you threaten my family and kill my daughter, I have the right to kill you, your wife, your kids, your neighbors, your co-workers, your extended family, as well as destroy your apartment, your neighborhood, your district and your town. It's my right to exist. Again, if you are a terrorist, and decide to keep your familiy close and start a war , it's perfectly normal for another family on the other side to ask their military to send a warning, another warning, another call for evactuation... followed by a small gbu to blow your ass up, instead of sending in their own kin into urban warfare. Show nested quote +On October 23 2024 00:22 Salazarz wrote:
It's honestly surreal watching a guy straight up repeating Nazi rhetoric pretty much word for word with the whole 'superior humans' shtick as a way to justify Israel's actions. That's just everything I said through a blender reasembled wrong and interpreted in bad faith. I said that (in some way) superior societies or forms for governments did replace others in a region throughout history, and that's just a fact and hard to rewind. Israel is at war with iranian proxies.. that is understandable. Within the war IDF will kill civilians in lebanon and gaza, and potentially in iran.. which is nature of a war, since war sucks and can't be clean. Israeli settlers killing arabs in westbank and pushing to steal land.. can't be justified.
"Mass murder is justified if we warn people that we're going to do it."
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That's desperate even for you.
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On October 23 2024 01:37 KT_Elwood wrote:
That's desperate even for you.
You made the point, I'm just pointing out that you said it. You can retract your statement if you don't agree with what you said.
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I think you lack reading skills then.
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Northern Ireland27129 Posts
On October 23 2024 00:22 Salazarz wrote:
It's honestly surreal watching a guy straight up repeating Nazi rhetoric pretty much word for word with the whole 'superior humans' shtick as a way to justify Israel's actions.
It doesn’t even make a huge amount of sense in this particular example either. It’s not like the founders of the current state waltzed over to the area and conquered it without assistance from various great or formerly great powers.
I would much prefer the much less loaded language of ‘might is right’ than talk of superior beings myself. I still find it rather unpalatable as a moral concept but feels a lot less jarring than Nazi-sounding craic
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On October 23 2024 00:31 KT_Elwood wrote:
Israeli settlers killing arabs in westbank and pushing to steal land.. can't be justified.
That's literally the whole point of the 'war.'
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So how is it hiding in gaza and lebanon working out?
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On October 23 2024 02:15 KT_Elwood wrote:
I think you lack reading skills then.
No, I don't think so. What you said is perfectly clear, you're justifying violence against innocent people. Feel free to explain how I'm wrong or choose a different wording to get your point across. Just saying "you're wrong" is not enough.
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War will kill innocent people, it's no justification.. but a fact.
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On October 23 2024 06:10 KT_Elwood wrote:
War will kill innocent people, it's no justification.. but a fact.
Ah, yes. It's almost as if, by ending the war, innocent people would not have to die any longer. It's almost as if this war disproportionately killed innocent people.
Yes. The crime is what it is. It is what it is. Strong argument in favor of crime.
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Stilt, You know that online defamation is punishable in the EU right?
You can have a different opinion, but calling me "nazi" is pretty much over the top.
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On October 23 2024 16:56 KT_Elwood wrote:
Stilt, You know that online defamation is punishable in the EU right?
You can have a different opinion, but calling me "nazi" is pretty much over the top.
If you don't like being called a nazi, maybe you shouldn't espouse nazi talking points. Just a thought.
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On October 23 2024 16:56 KT_Elwood wrote:
Stilt, You know that online defamation is punishable in the EU right?
You can have a different opinion, but calling me "nazi" is pretty much over the top.
Punishable is a little too strong word here. Defamation laws wary across the EU, but I doubt calling someone a nazi on a gaming forum is an offense serious enough to be taken into consideration even by civil court. And thats assuming You can somehow figure out what his name is and where he lives, and this happens to be same country as the one You live in.
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You are clearly interpreting what I said in bad faith, and now trying the ad hominem approach based on what you claim I said.
Theory:
"Middle east is the place where nobody listens,and everbody calls each other Nazi."
I don't advocate for killing people because of ther religion or heritage, I said it's understandable for israel trying to kill combatants that launch rockets at their cities, have racist convictions and won't stop trying.
Killing people for their religion.. is what got Nazi germany..rightfully..bombed back in to the stoneage and what happens to iranian proxies at the moment.
I don't defend settlers behaving like racists dicks in Westbank.. but that's going on apart from the war in gaza and lebanon.
Since it's a war, and war always suck, there will be civilian casualties.
I also said that throughout history replacement has happend. The scientific explanation is that the "new" population was - in some way- superior to the old.
This is just pure logic. If there wasn't one group of humans with an advantage + tribalism.. they wouldn't have outperformed the other group in any metric.
Be it human subspecies.. or technologic advancement... or migration/fertility.
Also it's not always a "fight".. you can have things like "Chinatown" in Brooklyn. Chinese migrants come here. People born to chinese migrants stay here.
If you want to sort it on a good/problematic scale.. you are flying close to racism.
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You're an absolute donkey if you sincerely believe that what's happening in Gaza & Lebanon is a 'totally separate matter' from what is happening in West Bank. You're an even bigger donkey if you sincerely believe that it's just 'settlers behaving like dicks' in West Bank, given that they're sanctioned, armed, and supported by the state of Israel & its military forces, not to mention the countless arrests, attacks, and other harassment that Israeli military & administration routinely carries out in West Bank.
Also, if you don't want to be called a nazi you should seriously consider not using nazi language. Like calling certain groups of people 'superior' to other groups of people -- that's basically the cornerstone of entire nazi ideology. Ironically, that's also the cornerstone of Israeli ideology.
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EPT
