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On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence":
Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD
I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this.
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On September 21 2024 18:58 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence": Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this.
I for one haven't read anything either you or premobeats have written at each other for a few dozen pages already.
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On September 21 2024 18:58 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence": Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this.
The things I said are simply true. They are an observation. Nothing follows from these observations.
You go on to spin a narrative of misrepresentation out of it by attributing motifs and putting words in my mouth. That is what I have an issue with. The things you quoted by themselves are perfectly fine and I stand by them. It is your word- and intention-twisting that I criticize.
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On September 21 2024 19:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 18:58 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence": Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this. I for one haven't read anything either you or premobeats have written at each other for a few dozen pages already.
That makes a lot of sense
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On September 21 2024 19:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 18:58 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence": Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this. I for one haven't read anything either you or premobeats have written at each other for a few dozen pages already.
Fair enough, as our last conversation ended weeks ago as well as that guy's and my conversation being mostly uninteresting, uninspired personal attacks and corrections.
The gist of my points, that I think Ryzel was asking for a couple of weeks ago, still is, that I don't see any evidence according to numbers and facts that Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinians as a government agenda or that genocide/forced famines are happening.
And so far, none of the people that made these accusations presented a coherent argument to counter that notion, which I would be happy to correct, if people would be able to reply with more than 1-time-posts that don't hold up to even the simplest of follow-up-questions.
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On September 21 2024 19:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 18:58 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 16:33 PremoBeats wrote:On September 21 2024 01:55 Nebuchad wrote:On September 21 2024 01:37 PremoBeats wrote:
I don't even know what I should do with your reply. You highlight some words, attribute your own meaning and motif and hand wave away my overall conclusion (Demilitarization, de-radicalization... Blabla, you know it by now, I hope).
You make it seem like me pointing out that Palestinians historically stirring up trouble in other countries and these countries now having reasons to not let Palestinians in out of safety concerns, is somehow bad. I didn't "make it seem" like anything, I very clearly just said that your claim that I'm misrepresenting you is wrong, as you're saying those things. There was no other content in the post. Since you don't know what you should do with my answer, I can tell you: you should stop using false claims of misrepresentation in the future and focus on the issues. Of course there are additional problems with that, as this speaks to mindset: a person who will immediately claim to be misrepresented when their actual words are written back to them doesn't really care about what they're saying, and that brings their honesty into question. But of course it's been clear since your first few posts that you aren't engaging in good faith so that's not really new information. The claim that you misrepresent what I write, is not wrong. Let's look at your "evidence": Your first instinct was to say that it was good to say all these things, but now that it corners you in the conversation, suddenly the things misrepresent you xD I'm not going to read this which means that absolutely no one is going to read this. I for one haven't read anything either you or premobeats have written at each other for a few dozen pages already.
Same here unfortunately. I skip all of Premo's comments and every response to him.
News about Beirut:
"Officials believe 31 people have died as a result of the attack so far, with three children and seven women among those to have died."
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-lebanon-pager-walkie-talkie-explosions-middle-east-crisis-hezbollah-hamas-gaza-war-latest-sky-news-live-blog-12978800?postid=8304791#liveblog-body
More bodies are still being searched.
So as more information comes out we learn more about how not-targeted the attack was. Many innocent people including three children and seven women have died (and logically many more innocent people have been wounded), just as reason would dictate. I said it from the start but some people were of course quick to dismiss reason - as always whenever Israel is the aggressor.
It has also been officially declared a terrorist attack/war crime (not by Israel's allies of course).
Since the pager attack, Hezbollah has allegedly fired 140 missiles into Israel. There don't seem to be any casualties. Israel on the other hand has hit an unknown quantity of Hezbollah's rocket launchers.
The order of events is not mentioned.
This doesn't seem like Hezbollah has lost much of its capacity to terrorize Israel. But I guess we can still feel good because Lebanese people have died for a completely unknown and undefined benefit to Israel. It's time to celebrate that, right?
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-lebanon-pager-walkie-talkie-explosions-middle-east-crisis-hezbollah-hamas-gaza-war-latest-sky-news-live-blog-12978800?postid=8300157#liveblog-body
In stark contrast to the pointless pager attack, which has not resulted in the deaths of any high ranking Hezbollah members (Fadel Abbas Bazzi and Ahmad Ali Hassan are known to have been killed), the regular missile strikes appear to actually have the intended effect.
"Hezbollah confirmed two of its senior commanders were killed in the attack, Ibrahim Aqil and Ahmed Wahbi."
https://news.sky.com/story/israel-lebanon-pager-walkie-talkie-explosions-middle-east-crisis-hezbollah-hamas-gaza-war-latest-sky-news-live-blog-12978800?postid=8305013#liveblog-body
Perhaps Israel should stick to its missile strikes rather than pagers exploding in random public locations taking the lives of innocent women and children with them while terrorizing the population.
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United States43677 Posts
Are you saying women can’t be terrorists? That seems pretty misogynistic.
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On September 21 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
Same here unfortunately. I skip all of Premo's comments and every response to him.
It seems to be easier to avoid people who are truly hard on facts than to actually face them.
But as I said: I will remember our last intermezzo and how you never rationalized your notion that Israel is imprisoning Palestinians, if you ever wish to continue.
On September 21 2024 21:57 KwarK wrote:
Are you saying women can’t be terrorists? That seems pretty misogynistic.
Don't forget children... I doubt Hamas is the only one equipping teenagers with AKs.
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Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict.
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On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict.
*Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism"
I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from.
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United States43677 Posts
On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from.
It really hasn’t but okay guy.
You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereignty. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders.
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On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders.
Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule.
That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though.
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On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule.
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On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule.
Probably one of the main reasons why this world sucks :/
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On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though.
I think this is dishonest framing. It’s not “might makes right”, but all existing borders are defined by military, economic, and diplomatic strength.
A state’s function is to protect their citizens. When a state lacks the means to do that, a variety of things happen that ultimately lead to a different state controlling that land. I think the way you try to frame it as bullying misses the point that a state’s purpose is to protect its citizens. When it lacks “might”, it fails to protect its interests.
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On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule.
I don't think many people realize how important maintaining that pretended reality is to the US economy and everything dependent on it (which is basically the world as we know it). I suspect it will become increasingly apparent over the coming decades as China becomes mightier and the US is increasingly in conflict with them/their interests.
Basically a lot of the world was forced at gunpoint to make deals with US interests to exploit their people in exchange for not being targeted by the US for regime change and the like (many were anyway). It's not hard for someone else to offer them a better deal and still have plenty of profit to be made.
Destroying the illusion of "rules" beyond "might makes right" makes the West (more specifically the US) vulnerable in a way that they haven't really experienced in living memory and seemingly can't comprehend.
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On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule.
Humans are the apex predator. A well designed/crafted civilization creates a code of conduct/behaviour in part to prevent the humans from all killing each other.
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On September 22 2024 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule. Humans are the apex predator. A well designed/crafted civilization creates a code of conduct/behaviour in part to prevent the humans from all killing each other.
Perhaps a better system wouldn't go amiss.
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On September 22 2024 04:27 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule. Humans are the apex predator. A well designed/crafted civilization creates a code of conduct/behaviour in part to prevent the humans from all killing each other. Perhaps a better system wouldn't go amiss.
I think the systems we have in place are working very well. We're the dominant animal on the planet. I think all the major religions serve as an excellent foundation of any civilization.
Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, etc are all impressively designed. I can barely manage 15 people. I can't imagine attempting to lead billions.
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On September 22 2024 04:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2024 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:On September 22 2024 01:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 22 2024 00:40 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2024 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2024 23:44 Manit0u wrote:
Can we just agree that what Hamas is doing is terrorism and what Israel is doing is also terrorism? Problem solved and can focus on unbiased reporting on the conflict. *Nixon voice* "Well, when Israel does it, that means that it is not terrorism" I jest, but this has completely undermined the concept of international law to a degree I don't believe the "rules-based international order" can recover from. It really hasn’t but okay guy. You’ve always been allowed to assassinate terrorists, though the host nation has always been entitled to respond to the violation of their sovereign. Lebanon is currently a failed state hosting a proxy war between Iran and Israel so the idea that this might somehow violate their sovereignty is absurd because they don’t have any. A sovereign state has a monopoly on the use of force within its borders. Sure it hasn't, as long as you consider "might makes right" the real rule. That was more about the terrorism/crimes against humanity they've been committing for months/years/decades rather than the pager thing in isolation though. We like to pretend otherwise but at no point in history has 'might makes right' stopped being the real rule. Humans are the apex predator. A well designed/crafted civilization creates a code of conduct/behaviour in part to prevent the humans from all killing each other.
You need to see me drunk more often that would dispell the notion that we're well designed
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