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On April 14 2024 08:26 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 08:07 Excludos wrote:On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:On April 14 2024 07:27 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Well... ok then. Again all theatre. Never mind the fact they can't just everything has ended, as Israel can now decide that.
That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. "We're just going to invade a little bit. That'll be sensible" This attack is moronic on another level. These people just absolutely loves to give Israel any excuse they need to engage in hostilities with zero repercussions. Israel have already said they are going to respond to this attack in force, and the world won't bat an eye when they do, just like with Gaza This is the definition of fucking around and finding out Sure, I would have preferred no direct response to the attack on their consulate, but I understand they couldn't let it slide completely. Giving Israel a one off nuisance to shoot down is the least escalatory action bar doing nothing.
Hundreds of drones, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles is much more than a nuisance. They were trying to overwhelm the missile defense system but failed.
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On April 14 2024 14:52 Kreuger wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 14:15 zeo wrote:On April 14 2024 13:55 Cerebrate1 wrote:On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. Israel dropped one bomb and Iran responded with hundreds of drones and missiles into Israel proper? Are you certain that you want Israel's response to be that proportional? Israel dropped more than one bomb on the civilians in Gaza while Iran has targeted Israels capability of bombing civilians with this strike. Seems proportional to me. Attacking diplomatic missions in third countries was just speeding up the inevitable Thinking that the drones and missiles Iran attacked with was targeted at military installations.... Israel should obliviously respond to this escalation and target Iran proper. Wether they will or not, have to wait and see
They telegraphed it for a week and launched from hours away in Iran instead of from Lebanon. The drones took routes directly over cities so everyone could see them, this was a message. The US is backing down with rhetoric and the 100% shoot down cope propaganda lets Israel not retaliate and save face because 'they won'.
Hopefully this wakes everyone up in Tel Aviv to the fact that they don't want to all die in a war and they start winding everything down. Losing a few F-35's or other aircraft in these strikes is a small price to pay.
edit: Israel gains nothing from escalation but most likely will do *something* because they will feel they have to, its just going to be muffled by the Americans that don't want everything going to shit in an election year.
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On April 14 2024 15:30 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 14:52 Kreuger wrote:On April 14 2024 14:15 zeo wrote:On April 14 2024 13:55 Cerebrate1 wrote:On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. Israel dropped one bomb and Iran responded with hundreds of drones and missiles into Israel proper? Are you certain that you want Israel's response to be that proportional? Israel dropped more than one bomb on the civilians in Gaza while Iran has targeted Israels capability of bombing civilians with this strike. Seems proportional to me. Attacking diplomatic missions in third countries was just speeding up the inevitable Thinking that the drones and missiles Iran attacked with was targeted at military installations.... Israel should obliviously respond to this escalation and target Iran proper. Wether they will or not, have to wait and see They telegraphed it for a week and launched from hours away in Iran instead of from Lebanon. The drones took routes directly over cities so everyone could see them, this was a message. The US is backing down with rhetoric and the 100% shoot down cope propaganda lets Israel not retaliate and save face because 'they won'. Hopefully this wakes everyone up in Tel Aviv to the fact that they don't want to all die in a war and they start winding everything down. Losing a few F-35's or other aircraft in these strikes is a small price to pay. edit: Israel gains nothing from escalation but most likely will do *something* because they will feel they have to, its just going to be muffled by the Americans that don't want everything going to shit in an election year.
Of Course it was a message and the response should be forcefull. The only reason israel dont have thousands of dead atm is they with allies managed to shoot down 99%.
Its such a fawtly logic imo thats just because 99% got shot down no harm was done so idf should let things be.
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On April 14 2024 13:55 Cerebrate1 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. Israel dropped one bomb and Iran responded with hundreds of drones and missiles into Israel proper? Are you certain that you want Israel's response to be that proportional?
Air defense is part of the equation, what I had in mind was realistic damage rather than potential damage. There was one reported injury and minor damage to a military airbase in Israel as a response to several Iranian officials being killed and a consulate being levelled. For Israel's response to be that proportional it would have to basically just give a scare to some Iranian goats.
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On April 14 2024 16:39 Penthesilea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 15:40 Kreuger wrote:On April 14 2024 15:30 zeo wrote:On April 14 2024 14:52 Kreuger wrote:On April 14 2024 14:15 zeo wrote:On April 14 2024 13:55 Cerebrate1 wrote:On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. Israel dropped one bomb and Iran responded with hundreds of drones and missiles into Israel proper? Are you certain that you want Israel's response to be that proportional? Israel dropped more than one bomb on the civilians in Gaza while Iran has targeted Israels capability of bombing civilians with this strike. Seems proportional to me. Attacking diplomatic missions in third countries was just speeding up the inevitable Thinking that the drones and missiles Iran attacked with was targeted at military installations.... Israel should obliviously respond to this escalation and target Iran proper. Wether they will or not, have to wait and see They telegraphed it for a week and launched from hours away in Iran instead of from Lebanon. The drones took routes directly over cities so everyone could see them, this was a message. The US is backing down with rhetoric and the 100% shoot down cope propaganda lets Israel not retaliate and save face because 'they won'. Hopefully this wakes everyone up in Tel Aviv to the fact that they don't want to all die in a war and they start winding everything down. Losing a few F-35's or other aircraft in these strikes is a small price to pay. edit: Israel gains nothing from escalation but most likely will do *something* because they will feel they have to, its just going to be muffled by the Americans that don't want everything going to shit in an election year. Of Course it was a message and the response should be forcefull. The only reason israel dont have thousands of dead atm is they with allies managed to shoot down 99%. Its such a fawtly logic imo thats just because 99% got shot down no harm was done so idf should let things be. There is no way that Israel shot down 99% of the missiles. Maybe the drones, but they are decoys meant to be shot down. We have several videos of missiles hitting the same area over and over, apparently the intended target. Which are Israeli military installations which we have not seen any damage images of. The US is very strongly telling Israel to consider this a victory and to not retaliate. The US tax payer just paid for about 1 billion USD worth of missiles. And Iran was still able to penetrate. If no one of the IDF was killed, this may have been by design, by Iran. It will also mean that if Israel does retaliate, there will be another attack by Iran, this time intended to be deadly. Of course Israel can do the same thing to Iran. And Israel doesn't need a drone swarm because Iran doesn't have the same air defense capabilities. But it is like two boxers swinging at each other, doing massive damage, and not being able to cover up and defend. Air defense against ballistic missiles and cruise missiles with a smart glide pattern is basically technology that doesn't exist. Even though the US and Israel have been working on this for decades. If anything, today's actual footage shows that indeed it does not work. Where camera's were set up, Israel's defenses were penetrated. Don't get fooled by the show drones being shot down. It is a completely different thing to shoot down a drone that takes 9 hours to fly from Iran to Israel. Or to shoot down a ballistic missile that takes 12 minutes. Now Iran may not have a lot of these cruise missiles in case of an elongated war. And the US may provide Israel with a ton of stuff to keep trying to defend. But don't fall for the "Israel won because Israel, US & allies show down 99%". It is obviously a false claim.
Believe it or not
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Mexico2170 Posts
I'm going to say something not directly related to the news but just as a general I guess "philisophical" thought that I have sometimes regarding the situation in the middle east.
The middle east is a shit show and has been for a while. Too many extremist from different religions, to much hatred between factions, too much greed, too many mistakes to fix. I, and I believe many others, believe a big war in the area is inevitable. Heck, even the biblical "apocalypse" is supposed to start right there and there seem to be some factions that seem to actually want too make it happen.
There comes a point, in life, work and everything, where you have to tear everything down to start again. Sometimes I think they just should get it over with, so they/we can rebuild in a better way. OF course it's easy for me to say being in the other side of the world, but I've tought abaout something like this for situations closer to home as well. I guess I feel like somethimes it's better to endure suffering and hardship in the short term, in exchange for a better world long term.
Maybe I'm jaded but I don't think the tensions in the middle east, the wars, the terrorism that spawns from the area that affects other countries continents away, is ever really going to dissappear without some massive thing happening there.
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Its hard to say if there will be further escalation if the us is pishing hard to leave it at this. But Netanyahu has been looking for a new front now that Israel is being pushed to end the fighting in gaza. The idea was Hezbollah, it might become Iran.
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I have to somewhat agree with Penthesilea. If the footage I've seen is legit and the report of 300 missiles is accurate, then Israel did not shoot down 99%, more likely somewhere between 95% and 90%. That's still a fairly impressive rate for Israel.
However, I think that this comes fairly close to the peak of Iranian ability to threaten Israel from afar.
What worries me is that Iraq lies right between Israel and Iran. They're not happy about this, and we don't know how they'll respond to continued aggression from either side.
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Do ya'll care to share this footage you've supposedly seen of missiles hitting their targets or drones over Jerusalem? How do you know drones are over Jerusalem... do you recognize the Jerusalem skyline in the video you've seen or is it simply something you were told? How do you know you're not the one buying propaganda?
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If you don't understand why the Israelian guy said what he said and instead get bogged down in the semantics of how many lights you've actually counted in the Jerusalemian night sky out of 300 then I think you should get a refresher on wartime propagada.
Every high level party has the (exact) numbers, but you don"t and neither does the general public. Random person getting the news won't count the actual ratio of missiles fired to missiles shot down, ergo, big Israelian victory. Level up in patriotism. Bolstering in willingness to defend country with tooth and nail. Stop thinking they're having to report it as honestly as possible, they just need to report it as close to the truth as they need it to be.
Because, obviously, if Jerusalem was flattened they wouldn't claim their defense was a resounding success.
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On April 14 2024 15:30 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 14:52 Kreuger wrote:On April 14 2024 14:15 zeo wrote:On April 14 2024 13:55 Cerebrate1 wrote:On April 14 2024 07:46 Dan HH wrote:That's.. oddly reasonable? Israel could learn a thing or two about what a proportional response is. Israel dropped one bomb and Iran responded with hundreds of drones and missiles into Israel proper? Are you certain that you want Israel's response to be that proportional? Israel dropped more than one bomb on the civilians in Gaza while Iran has targeted Israels capability of bombing civilians with this strike. Seems proportional to me. Attacking diplomatic missions in third countries was just speeding up the inevitable Thinking that the drones and missiles Iran attacked with was targeted at military installations.... Israel should obliviously respond to this escalation and target Iran proper. Wether they will or not, have to wait and see They telegraphed it for a week and launched from hours away in Iran instead of from Lebanon. The drones took routes directly over cities so everyone could see them, this was a message. The US is backing down with rhetoric and the 100% shoot down cope propaganda lets Israel not retaliate and save face because 'they won'. Hopefully this wakes everyone up in Tel Aviv to the fact that they don't want to all die in a war and they start winding everything down. Losing a few F-35's or other aircraft in these strikes is a small price to pay. edit: Israel gains nothing from escalation but most likely will do *something* because they will feel they have to, its just going to be muffled by the Americans that don't want everything going to shit in an election year.
I'm afraid of this Iran reaction is what Israel crazy bastards at top power wanted and planned when they decided to attack Iran embassy.
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United Kingdom10010 Posts
On April 14 2024 18:40 Penthesilea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 18:09 BlackJack wrote:
Do ya'll care to share this footage you've supposedly seen of missiles hitting their targets or drones over Jerusalem? How do you know drones are over Jerusalem... do you recognize the Jerusalem skyline in the video you've seen or is it simply something you were told? How do you know you're not the one buying propaganda? Because they were hit from missiles that didn't come from the ground and we have journalists saying they heard fighter planes. And we literally had live stationary camera's from both CNN and Al Jazeera in both Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Or maybe you are Elon Musk and you believe we actually live in a simulation and that was all fake. This isn't exactly rocket science.
The propaganda isn't necessarily all coming from Israel and their side:
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United Kingdom10010 Posts
On April 14 2024 18:45 Penthesilea wrote:
Iran state propaganda isn't aimed at an educated informed western audience. There's no need to even debunk that.
And yet here you are saying you've seen videos of rockets falling on Jerusalem?
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United Kingdom10010 Posts
On April 14 2024 18:50 Penthesilea wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2024 18:45 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2024 18:45 Penthesilea wrote:
Iran state propaganda isn't aimed at an educated informed western audience. There's no need to even debunk that. And yet here you are saying you've seen videos of rockets falling on Jerusalem? Are you fucking kidding me?
I dunno, it seems to be a massive struggle getting anyone to actually post said videos, so its impossible to judge them on their own merits. Instead, all I have to judge is obvious propaganda from Iran.
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EPT
