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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On March 29 2024 23:33 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2024 22:36 WombaT wrote:
Media culture will differ by locale of course, I think broadly ours does give Palestinian deaths a reasonably prominent focus, but in the way they’d cover a natural disaster or tragedy of that nature.
Perhaps somewhat (largely) neglecting the whole human agency element as to why that is occurring. That would be my critique of the general tenor of coverage. In more local coverage, the most glaring thing I've seen in a french newspaper was an article about the deplorable conditions for Palestinians in a refugee camp in Egypt, with way less neutral language. As soon as it's no longer Israel that is responsible for the conditions, Palestinians get their humanity back and we are allowed to empathize with them.
Ah, tomorrow we're publishing an article about the increase in PTSD in Israel
“Not only will America come to your country and kill all your people, but what's worse is that they'll come back 20 years later and make a movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel sad.”
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EDITED: Not relevant for this thread
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If Iran is going to do something then they will probably attempt it this week or so, because their currency appears to have just collapsed, even faster than the past few years. Not even the threat of counter attacking Israel seems to be working domestically. One has to wonder if this would affect the finances of Hezbollah, and Yemen and so on.
+ Show Spoiler +A sharp crash in the value of the Iranian rial was reported yesterday, with some sources reporting that one US dollar would now be worth over 660,000 Iranian rials in some unofficial markets, while others stressed the fact that the already weak currency suffered a blow leading to the loss of 30% of its worth overnight; despite the regime’s official digits showing no major changes.
One member of the Majles (the Iranian parliament) demanded to know from chair Mohammad Baqer Qalibaf what steps the authorities are going to take, calling on the parliament to meet with the governor of the country’s central bank, and wondering, “if we don’t have money – why are we printing more? And if we do have money – why is it so costly?” Qalibaf answered they are “aware of the situation and will hold meetings inshallah (Arabic: God willing),” sparking a wave of disappointed and sarcastic comments.
One social media user commented ironically: “oh you’re going to hold a meeting? Bulls**t,” while another user uploaded a video showcasing the rial’s loss of buying power, showing how a 50,000 Iranian rial banknote ($1.2) used to be enough to buy 30 eggs only a decade ago, while nowadays it suffices to buy only one single egg. However, many social media users were unimpressed by the government’s distraction attempts, with one user denouncing the corruption of leaders which according to them led to the situation while another one added “you took away our youth, a curse be upon you,” and a third user concluded: “Don’t tell us now that Israel is the one to blame for the Dollar’s [situation].”
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Again. No ceasefire, also there is news that Hamas has told meditators that at least 40 hostages are not in the "living" category. In terms that Humanitarian groups use.
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Israel said late March that 130 hostages were in captivity (other sources previously said 100), of which at least 33 were dead.
Does this news mean at least 40 are dead, or does it mean 40 more hostages have died since?
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On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide.
Not every one sided overgeneralisation of Israels contribution to the conflict is anti-semitism and you should not pull that card out whenever you disagree with someone vehemently. I would say Israel has continued to move towards an Apartheid state ever since it became the clear winner of the good ole nationalism days and before that some of what they did was excusable due to existential thread and somewhat different times. And you know that yourself, but for some reason, i guess because Nebuchad and GH have taken a lean towards Palestine, you have to find a more extreme position on the other side of the discussion and it's really weird.
Your argument is always, i hate Netanyahu, what is happening is bad, i wish it was different, but in this case, i guess Palestinean civilians, international aid workers, Syrians, Journalists, Lebanese they all just have to die.
RenSC2 just casually said, that Palestineans should be punished a few decades for what their despots did. Cool. Guess that's the argument you now have to defend.
This situation is messy and terrible, there is no simple solution and the ones that have the most uncomplicated opinion of it are almost always wrong. You are trying very hard to have an uncomplicated opinion in the last few pages and whenever you are called out, you seem to double down. Probably because other people here have also had way too uncomplicated opinions before, me certainly, stilt now definately, but also Ren and cerebrate.
Like you said, the world is not black and white.
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On April 08 2024 21:42 Byo wrote:
Hyperbole yes, but if you can ignore all collateral damage, then any suicide bombing including 9 11 is a net positive.
By western standards I would have hoped people talked about damage not just by lives lost by this stage of the game and how the numbers are released by Hamas and therefore not trustworthy.
If I bombed your home, bombed your community, bombed your work place then told you to run around in random shapes to avoid my next target. That's pretty close to killing you I would say, never mind the denial of food part. But don't worry, if you survive there's some form of insurance right? You just might not qualify after all the red tape.
Shame those numbers in past conflicts have proven to be reliable, even more so than Isreal's.
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So that would mean there are less than 100 hostages, that if it is believed, are still alive somewhere in Gaza/Rafah vicinity.
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Northern Ireland24421 Posts
On April 09 2024 04:41 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2024 21:42 Byo wrote:
Hyperbole yes, but if you can ignore all collateral damage, then any suicide bombing including 9 11 is a net positive.
By western standards I would have hoped people talked about damage not just by lives lost by this stage of the game and how the numbers are released by Hamas and therefore not trustworthy.
If I bombed your home, bombed your community, bombed your work place then told you to run around in random shapes to avoid my next target. That's pretty close to killing you I would say, never mind the denial of food part. But don't worry, if you survive there's some form of insurance right? You just might not qualify after all the red tape. Shame those numbers in past conflicts have proven to be reliable, even more so than Isreal's.
If I’m not mistaken, remarkably accurate when folks get in to corroborate.
Not something I’d intuitively expect, modern conflicts so frequently encompassing a parallel propaganda war, increasingly on social media.
Perhaps the numbers are bad enough and serve that purpose without any need to fudge them
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I think its a pretty safe bet that almost all, if not actually all, of the hostages are dead at this point
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On April 09 2024 06:27 Gorsameth wrote:I think its a pretty safe bet that almost all, if not actually all, of the hostages are dead at this point
I've wondered for a while what Israelis thought the hostages have been eating and drinking?
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On April 09 2024 05:46 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 04:24 Broetchenholer wrote:On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide. Not every one sided overgeneralisation of Israels contribution to the conflict is anti-semitism and you should not pull that card out whenever you disagree with someone vehemently. I would say Israel has continued to move towards an Apartheid state ever since it became the clear winner of the good ole nationalism days and before that some of what they did was excusable due to existential thread and somewhat different times. And you know that yourself, but for some reason, i guess because Nebuchad and GH have taken a lean towards Palestine, you have to find a more extreme position on the other side of the discussion and it's really weird. Your argument is always, i hate Netanyahu, what is happening is bad, i wish it was different, but in this case, i guess Palestinean civilians, international aid workers, Syrians, Journalists, Lebanese they all just have to die. RenSC2 just casually said, that Palestineans should be punished a few decades for what their despots did. Cool. Guess that's the argument you now have to defend. This situation is messy and terrible, there is no simple solution and the ones that have the most uncomplicated opinion of it are almost always wrong. You are trying very hard to have an uncomplicated opinion in the last few pages and whenever you are called out, you seem to double down. Probably because other people here have also had way too uncomplicated opinions before, me certainly, stilt now definately, but also Ren and cerebrate. Like you said, the world is not black and white. Thank goodness I don’t bring it out every time, in fact I bring it out very rarely. This is another thing you can easily check on but doubtful you will. I bring it out when a hateful person says that all Israelis are genocidal and have been since 1948, because it is anti-Semitic
Ok, let's check
On November 01 2023 23:51 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2023 23:42 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:29 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:23 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:19 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:05 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 22:32 JimmiC wrote:
People are arguing that Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas. People are arguing that Israel isn't "striking back" at Hamas. The premise is a lie. Hamas is "striking back" at Israel, btw. That doesn't make them justified in their targeting of civilians, nor does it make the question "ah but what else should Hamas do" an interesting one How kind of you to pull something out of context and treat it as a lone statement. You can't attack back at just Hamas because of their strategy of imbedding in civilians. Don't be so naive. In the context did you write "I realize that my portrayal of the argument I'm facing as "Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas" was inaccurate"? You would have to read my posts without hate in your heart for me and Israel which seems impossible for you. It is that they can not strike back against Hamas without killing a bunch of innocents. I've been extremely clear about this and you refuse to be remotely fair with me. So I understood correctly, and I'm pointing out that they aren't striking back at Hamas. + Show Spoiler +Nope, they are which is causing massive civilian causalities. I disagree with the approach not it is impossible. I get that it’s easier for you to read what you want to read because of your blatant bias against me and your unconscious antisemitism but it’s not worth my time to go back and forth with you + Show Spoiler +because if I drop to your level I’ll get banned with a PM from Drone calling me an idiot. So good luck and I hope you had a great Halloween last night and at some point are able to come to terms with how you see yourself and your actual beliefs.
On November 09 2023 04:22 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2023 03:44 Godwrath wrote:On November 09 2023 03:40 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:32 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2023 03:24 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 09 2023 03:02 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 01:39 Sent. wrote:On November 09 2023 00:20 RvB wrote:An article from the BBC about a call Israel made to a Palestinian doctor warning about airstrikes in Gaza. It gives a good insight into how it works. I've only copied the first few paragraphs from the article. The rest can be found with the link. It was Thursday 19 October at about 06:30, and Israel had been bombing Gaza for 12 days straight.
He'd been in his third-floor, three-bedroom flat in al-Zahra, a middle-class area in the north of the Gaza Strip. Until now, it had been largely untouched by air strikes.
He'd heard a rising clamour outside. People were screaming. "You need to escape," somebody in the street shouted, "because they will bomb the towers".
As he left his building and crossed the road, looking for a safe place, his phone lit up.
It was a call from a private number.
"I'm speaking with you from Israeli intelligence," a man said down the line, according to Mahmoud.
That call would last more than an hour - and it would be the most terrifying call of his life. www.bbc.com This is such a weird interaction. What's the point of destroying those buildings after allowing their inhabitants to evacuate? Is this about destroying combat equipment potentially stored in the buildings? You can't expect to kill your enemies like this so I can't come up with any other rational explanation. Some of it is to destroy equipment, some of it is to destroy spots where militants can hide, a lot of it is to destroy entrances to the massive tunnel system. Odd choice to warn people you want to ethnically cleanse when warning allows everyone including the militants to flee. A reminder that ethnic cleansing doesn't just cover killing, but also includes forced displacement. But forced displacement alone does not mean ethnic cleansing. And certainly not genocide which is also being used freely. I think you might want to look up the definition of ethnic cleansing. "Forced displacement" (of an ethnic group) is the first thing that comes up. Yes if they end up forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza that would be ethnic cleansing. That many of you believe it is fact that is the goal is not in fact a fact. Only if it's displacing all of them right? If it's (all - 1) it's not ethnic cleanse. Of course not. But it’s easier for all of you to feel good about your antisemitism and insult me rather than confront it. + Show Spoiler +There is all sorts of awful things happening in the world most of them people from the outside are able to see it from both sides, point out the awful from both sides but also have some empathy towards why that side is doing awful things. I mean it is easy for many of you to easily justify Hamas actions and the people hiding and helping them. Yet zero in the opposite way and if anyone try’s to talk about you have jump down their throats with all sorts of anger and logical fallacy.
On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. + Show Spoiler +
On March 08 2024 06:00 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:
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Isn't that convenient.
Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If I was to reply to this with: 'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism? + Show Spoiler +I mean that would be the antisemitic response to what is going on. Because if it was true they would have done is over and over with their 10 gobillion stronger than everyone army and space lasers.
Like if we talking about not Israel and Jews you would be all over this. Seriously, no point me posting them anymore because it is clear you are not reading them, but there is a shit ton of academic research and papers on antisemitism in the left. And tons of the boxes get checked here fairly regularly. Does that mean lots of people here are antisemites? No it does not, does it mean that many people here are ingesting a lot of antisemitic material without realizing what it is? Yes it does. + Show Spoiler +All the people you have spent calling racists, or saying racist dog whistles, feel exactly like you do right now, crazy isn't it?
On March 08 2024 06:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:32 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:24 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:18 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off. On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't. Wow, how embarrassing for you. Wait until you find out how it got started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state#:~:text=10 External links-,Overview,for British Palestine in 1947. I've read this wiki page before, it's a good summary of how far right and unequal zionist ideology is at a fundamental level. But I'm not a zionist though, so I'm unsure why I would be embarrassed by it. BTW one of the common ways leftists who are antisemites hide it, is by jus saying things about zionists. Might have ticked all the boxes now, congrats! + Show Spoiler +Seriously you should read up even ifit is just to argue me, at least you will have some basis to do so.
You should be embarrassed because as per usual I didn't say what you accused me of. Israel is a Jewish state, the only one, and this shouldn't be new information.
On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. + Show Spoiler +History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide.
On January 18 2024 05:28 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2024 04:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 03:59 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 03:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 02:20 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 01:44 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 01:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 01:14 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
Being in favor of violence against nazis is not evidence that someone doesn't think all humans are equal. Quite the opposite actually. So does that also apply to people in favour of violence against Hamas and their ilk? That's literally everyone, so yes. Everyone is in favour of violence against Hamas? I was under the impression based on the words they wrote that Hamas is as bad as they are because of Israel. Can you think of someone who said in the thread that it was wrong to kill Hamas militants? Cause if not, I'm a little confused with why you're getting stuck on this. If Hamas is in Israel currently killing Israelis than people seem to agree killing them is fine. If they are in Gaza and not currently killing Israelis is where the disagreements happen. Some people have stated that Israel should not attack outside of the borders no matter what because that can’t be defense. Others like me have suggested that shouldn’t because the cost of civilian life is too high with their human shield strategy. Then there are more complicated questions that anti Israeli posters avoid even talking about, like for example, is someone a civilian if they are hosting a tunnel entrance in their house? How much support of Hamas makes a person a legitimate target? I wonder if your passion for killing fascists and their supporters travels to Hamas supporters? It does yes, but not in the way that you want.I support violent resistance against authoritarianism the world over, by the people who are the victims of it. When an exterior force comes in and takes up that fight, that is something that I have more trouble with because mechanically what it creates is more support for the authoritarian group, as happened during the war in Afghanistan. People who otherwise wouldn't develop far right ideas see their countrymen being attacked by a foreign force, and naturally side with the group that is doing resistance not because they're very into far right ideas but because that's the group that is fighting back. These types of foreign interventions create more support for authoritarians, and therefore they're counterproductive, so I wouldn't be in support of that violence in principle and I am even less in support of it in practice because usually the foreign group is not just selflessly doing an antifascism, chances are they're self-interested and trying to fuck over the people of that country in some way as well. This is why, while I definitely support Afghani people violently resisting the Talibans, I have more trouble supporting the US doing it. This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question. That's the general rule for foreign intervention, but in the case of Israel, Israel is not only "not selflessly doing an antifascism", it's even worse, it's a bunch of far right people trying to reach a population that they want to ethnically cleanse, as we can clearly see from their methods, their words, the result of their actions, or from the fact that they're trying to expand as far as they can the definition of "Hamas supporter" so that they get to kill more Palestinians, as you alluded to in the post. This isn't antifascist violence, this is fascist violence, so clearly I'm not in support of it. Just so we're clear, that was a "no" on you being capable of finding someone who is uncomfortable with killing Hamas militants, so I was right when I said everyone is comfortable with that? Paragraph 1 Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions... So what exactly is what I want? Feel free to actually take a stab Paragraph 2. Hamas is the external force, they are a proxy army of Iran, do you dispute it or just ignore it? And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back. Paragraph 3 Nothing says your not anti-Israel like calling them a bunch of far right people trying to ethnically cleanse. Is there people in Israel with those beliefs, of course. 25%-45% a significant part. What is the percentage of people in Gaza that want to commit genocide against Israel? What % supported and cheered for the sexual violence, torture and murder? And yet I do not see you making sweeping statements about the Palestinians? Why is that? Here is the rub, if someone actually used your extremely biased logic in the other direction they would support the exact thing that you say you are against. Paragraph 4. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with killing Hamas members, this is why you have now changed your initial statement and added the word militant. Even then we have a few I'm not sure on, if they were actively killing babies and raping women in Israel, I think no one. If they were sheltered in a tunnel in Gaza, I think quiet a few would be against that. If they were donating money to Hamas, I think lots of people would be against that. If they were hosting tunnel entrances in their homes, I think a lot of people would be against it. That you are against the Hamas members that are actually out there killing babies and raping women is not that far from the "few bad apples" kind of thoughts you profess to hate in other threads. "In the way that you want" was just a turn of phrase, I meant "in the way that you're envisioning when you're writing this paragraph". I didn't mean to imply that you want it, I apologize. To answer your question, I don't think you want many specific things regarding the Palestinian conflict, I think it's much more important to you to disagree with GH me or Drone (and now the other people that you're starting to dislike because of this thread) than any real world stuff. Hamas is obviously not an external force, as it's composed of an absurdly large majority of Palestinians (if not a totality? I don't really know if there's a way to know that, but it doesn't matter). There is no significant percentage of Iranians flocking to Gaza to join Hamas. What a silly claim. "And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back." => "This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question." I can't say I'm surprised but come on. Israel is currently run by a far right government, who is operating the war machine. The people who are not far right in Israel are not the people who are running this war, and as such my claim is justified. If you want to call me anti-Israel because I claimed some fascists are fascists, then you can, but I will not be impressed. For a line of fun, notice that you started your post with "Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions" and then you ended it with a paragraph about how I'm not comfortable with killing Hamas militants (or members, I don't know what the difference is supposed to be lol) even though I say I am. + Show Spoiler +Appreciate the sorta apology. You got it completely wrong (other than that I don't like three arrogant self righteous pricks who are and continue to be assholes to me, I would be a moronic door mat to not dislike them). I'd say it again, but we both know you would just keep on believing your assumption.
Hamas is a proxy army for Iran, their, weapons, ideology, financing is all Iran, TBH I'm shocked you believe the propaganda. Fatah well flawed is Palestinian and they lost to Hamas, brutally, because of the Iranian backing.
Your bolded part does not counter what I said, I'm not saying you support the attack on Israel, I'm saying you are not applying your logic in both directions. I'm trying to point out the lack of consistency.
And for your last paragraph, I really do not know if it is your reading comprehension (which I doubt but it becoming a more and more realistic option considering how incredibly wrong you get things). I literally explain what I mean, I said you are comfortable killing the people with the guns while they are doing the horrible acts. I'm NOT SURE on the other members of Hamas you are OK with killing of what level of support to Hamas they need to give to meet your level.
I also think that you and the other people in this thread that appear in lock step would likely have different opinions on those thresholds. I also suspect your threshold to when you would enact violence on a "fascist" or supporter of fascism is much different than Hamas. I don't however think you are at GH levels where any communist can kill whoever in his revolution call them a capitalist and be OK. I also don't think you believe all the antisemitic tropes GH does (just with the word capitalist swapped for Jew, to make it more palatable for the lefty).
On February 15 2024 22:47 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2024 11:53 WombaT wrote:On February 15 2024 10:12 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 10:01 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:On February 15 2024 10:00 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 09:51 Magic Powers wrote:On February 15 2024 09:29 Jockmcplop wrote:
It seems to me that the civilians have been systematically pushed into Rafah, rather than it being an unfortunate consequence of circumstances.
You don't get over a million people in an area that tiny by accident.
The problem here is that there is now a standoff. Its pretty hard for Israel to do anything at all without causing absolute carnage among civilians, so I don't really see what their endgame could possibly be. The pro-Israel camp has justified all future deaths regardless of the count and regardless of the destruction. There is no limit. War is peace. The problem with the Israelis are evil fan fiction you keep writing is you miss any nuance making it wholly unrealistic. He did not write that? You are not aware that basically all Israelis are pro Israel? Even the ones who are anti war are pro Israel, basically every Jewish person in the world is pro Israel. So when you write what MP writes you are calling all Israelis and likely all Jewish people evil. Whether or not that is intended or not only he knows, but that is the message he is writing with his hot takes. Within a thread that massively discusses the Israeli/Palestine conflict almost exclusively, I feel contextually ‘pro-Israel camp’ should be pretty likely to be referring to ‘pro Israel’s conduct in this conflict’ rather than ‘pro Israel existing’. And in addition MP goes on to talk specifically about deaths, destruction and indeed war. Sure crossed wires happen, but how did you pivot that all the way over to ‘…likely all Jewish people evil’ being the messaging here? In fairness you did add a caveat regarding intent, but it’s a ludicrously uncharitable interpretation of what he wrote. + Show Spoiler +More or less ludicrous than his interpretation of everyone of Cerebrates posts?
There is plenty of actual bad things the IDF is doing and saying they are doing to talk about that there is no need to pretend someone knows what they “actually want to do”. The power imbalance is such (and MP spent ample time discussing the power imbalance this is why he thinks IDF has all agency and this is Hamas only option) that the IDF can do what every they want. If they actually wanted to kill as many Palestinians as possible they simply would, they easily could.
You can discuss how they are willing to destroy massive amounts of civilian infrastructure to get Hamas. You can discuss how they are willing to kill more civilians, even children, to get Hamas. You can talk about how wrong that is. How it will create an endless loop of hate. There is plenty of other real things you can discuss. But when you start moving into the “they want them all dead” category, you end up dangerously close to the blood libel category of antisemitism. + Show Spoiler +Next there is absolutely no need to be a complete asshole to Cerebrate1 every time he posts. Disagree with what he actually says do not make fan fiction about what MP thinks he really feels, especially when that is so hateful. It basically shows a mirror into how MP feels as Cerebrate1 has never exposed hate.
The interesting thing about this site is you have people all over the world with different backgrounds and experiences. The different opinions are what makes it interesting. Cerebrate has a way more in depth knowledge than anyone else here on the conflict. I’m not saying you have to agree but the bar is pretty low at not transforming everything he says into some hateful message he never gave.
On November 20 2023 10:53 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2023 09:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 08:22 JimmiC wrote:On November 20 2023 06:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 05:53 JimmiC wrote:
What part of my position makes me Pro Israel? You’ve repeatedly said this and I was wondering if you could articulate it. Because me and the others you have listed have some pretty divergent views.
This is the third time you quoted a post and still didnt even adress my questions.. I will as I basically do all the time answer yours.. but it will probably be the last time .. seeing as you dont even have the courtesy to do it yourself.. What part of your position makes you pro israel? You literally felt the need to play the "u are antisemites card" but arent pro Israel? Ok then my man.. Good riddance People who do not like antisemitism are pro Israel? I thought we just called those people not awful. This is why I do not respond to your posts, you clearly have not read any thing I’ve written. Why would I put in the effort when you are just going to shit post about me? From yours I have read that you already know so much more from YouTube videos and this is just a waste of time so your done, but then you just come back and rinse repeat. I never said that. You did also not say that you dont like antisemitism. You said people here were antisemtic ok? So once more you are lying or not that bright (Im sorry for the ad hominem but what else can it be ffs) I mean im sorry but I asked a simple question. Even made it easier with 1) 2) Y/N ect.. So Im a bit confused. I feel like you are evading but.. well.. apparently you dont like to respond to my posts yet half of the time you do.. you just write untrue stuff.. It is really just absurdly annoying at this point. + Show Spoiler +If you don’t want to engage with stop asking me questions by name. It is not a strange request for me to ask you to if you are genuinely interested in my thoughts. And also, it would statistically unbelievable if no one who participates in these threads have antisemitic bias. + Show Spoiler +Sorry not sorry that you can’t handle that or whatever your issue is, just actually follow through of your repeated threat of going away, or at least stop making it.
The last one is my personal favorite. You repeatedly employed this argument "well it's statistically unlikely that nobody here is anti-Semitic so...." what a ridiculous thing to say.
I'm not saying any of you have a whore for a mother, I'm just saying it would be statistically unlikely if some of you didn't have a mother who gobbles cocks... just saying... lmao
Anyway I don't think the record reflects that you "very rarely" bring out the anti-semitism card as you've claimed.
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Previously Hamas were able to exchange 50 Israeli hostages for 150 Palestinians during a truce. That was over three months ago. They could release another 50 while maintaining leverage for future negotiations, but instead they've raised their demands and refused to meet essential demands by Israel (such as confirmation of life). This is in spite of Hamas desperately needing another truce.
That implies it's likely true that most of the remaining hostages have died, otherwise there's little reason for Hamas to keep stalling.
It also indicates that continued warfare is the worst option for the hostages. While the anger is understandable, it doesn't help the survivors.
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I get the sinking feeling the Rafah assault will happen on Eid...
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Northern Ireland24421 Posts
On April 09 2024 06:44 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 05:46 JimmiC wrote:On April 09 2024 04:24 Broetchenholer wrote:On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide. Not every one sided overgeneralisation of Israels contribution to the conflict is anti-semitism and you should not pull that card out whenever you disagree with someone vehemently. I would say Israel has continued to move towards an Apartheid state ever since it became the clear winner of the good ole nationalism days and before that some of what they did was excusable due to existential thread and somewhat different times. And you know that yourself, but for some reason, i guess because Nebuchad and GH have taken a lean towards Palestine, you have to find a more extreme position on the other side of the discussion and it's really weird. Your argument is always, i hate Netanyahu, what is happening is bad, i wish it was different, but in this case, i guess Palestinean civilians, international aid workers, Syrians, Journalists, Lebanese they all just have to die. RenSC2 just casually said, that Palestineans should be punished a few decades for what their despots did. Cool. Guess that's the argument you now have to defend. This situation is messy and terrible, there is no simple solution and the ones that have the most uncomplicated opinion of it are almost always wrong. You are trying very hard to have an uncomplicated opinion in the last few pages and whenever you are called out, you seem to double down. Probably because other people here have also had way too uncomplicated opinions before, me certainly, stilt now definately, but also Ren and cerebrate. Like you said, the world is not black and white. Thank goodness I don’t bring it out every time, in fact I bring it out very rarely. This is another thing you can easily check on but doubtful you will. I bring it out when a hateful person says that all Israelis are genocidal and have been since 1948, because it is anti-Semitic Ok, let's check Show nested quote +On November 01 2023 23:51 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:42 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:29 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:23 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:19 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:05 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 22:32 JimmiC wrote:
People are arguing that Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas. People are arguing that Israel isn't "striking back" at Hamas. The premise is a lie. Hamas is "striking back" at Israel, btw. That doesn't make them justified in their targeting of civilians, nor does it make the question "ah but what else should Hamas do" an interesting one How kind of you to pull something out of context and treat it as a lone statement. You can't attack back at just Hamas because of their strategy of imbedding in civilians. Don't be so naive. In the context did you write "I realize that my portrayal of the argument I'm facing as "Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas" was inaccurate"? You would have to read my posts without hate in your heart for me and Israel which seems impossible for you. It is that they can not strike back against Hamas without killing a bunch of innocents. I've been extremely clear about this and you refuse to be remotely fair with me. So I understood correctly, and I'm pointing out that they aren't striking back at Hamas. + Show Spoiler +Nope, they are which is causing massive civilian causalities. I disagree with the approach not it is impossible. I get that it’s easier for you to read what you want to read because of your blatant bias against me and your unconscious antisemitism but it’s not worth my time to go back and forth with you + Show Spoiler +because if I drop to your level I’ll get banned with a PM from Drone calling me an idiot. So good luck and I hope you had a great Halloween last night and at some point are able to come to terms with how you see yourself and your actual beliefs. Show nested quote +On November 09 2023 04:22 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:44 Godwrath wrote:On November 09 2023 03:40 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:32 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2023 03:24 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 09 2023 03:02 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 01:39 Sent. wrote:On November 09 2023 00:20 RvB wrote:An article from the BBC about a call Israel made to a Palestinian doctor warning about airstrikes in Gaza. It gives a good insight into how it works. I've only copied the first few paragraphs from the article. The rest can be found with the link. [quote] www.bbc.com This is such a weird interaction. What's the point of destroying those buildings after allowing their inhabitants to evacuate? Is this about destroying combat equipment potentially stored in the buildings? You can't expect to kill your enemies like this so I can't come up with any other rational explanation. Some of it is to destroy equipment, some of it is to destroy spots where militants can hide, a lot of it is to destroy entrances to the massive tunnel system. Odd choice to warn people you want to ethnically cleanse when warning allows everyone including the militants to flee. A reminder that ethnic cleansing doesn't just cover killing, but also includes forced displacement. But forced displacement alone does not mean ethnic cleansing. And certainly not genocide which is also being used freely. I think you might want to look up the definition of ethnic cleansing. "Forced displacement" (of an ethnic group) is the first thing that comes up. Yes if they end up forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza that would be ethnic cleansing. That many of you believe it is fact that is the goal is not in fact a fact. Only if it's displacing all of them right? If it's (all - 1) it's not ethnic cleanse. Of course not. But it’s easier for all of you to feel good about your antisemitism and insult me rather than confront it. + Show Spoiler +There is all sorts of awful things happening in the world most of them people from the outside are able to see it from both sides, point out the awful from both sides but also have some empathy towards why that side is doing awful things. I mean it is easy for many of you to easily justify Hamas actions and the people hiding and helping them. Yet zero in the opposite way and if anyone try’s to talk about you have jump down their throats with all sorts of anger and logical fallacy. Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:00 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:
[quote]
It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel.
So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat.
So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post.
Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If I was to reply to this with: 'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism? + Show Spoiler +I mean that would be the antisemitic response to what is going on. Because if it was true they would have done is over and over with their 10 gobillion stronger than everyone army and space lasers.
Like if we talking about not Israel and Jews you would be all over this. Seriously, no point me posting them anymore because it is clear you are not reading them, but there is a shit ton of academic research and papers on antisemitism in the left. And tons of the boxes get checked here fairly regularly. Does that mean lots of people here are antisemites? No it does not, does it mean that many people here are ingesting a lot of antisemitic material without realizing what it is? Yes it does. + Show Spoiler +All the people you have spent calling racists, or saying racist dog whistles, feel exactly like you do right now, crazy isn't it? Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:37 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:32 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:24 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:18 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off. On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't. Wow, how embarrassing for you. Wait until you find out how it got started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state#:~:text=10 External links-,Overview,for British Palestine in 1947. I've read this wiki page before, it's a good summary of how far right and unequal zionist ideology is at a fundamental level. But I'm not a zionist though, so I'm unsure why I would be embarrassed by it. BTW one of the common ways leftists who are antisemites hide it, is by jus saying things about zionists. Might have ticked all the boxes now, congrats! + Show Spoiler +Seriously you should read up even ifit is just to argue me, at least you will have some basis to do so.
You should be embarrassed because as per usual I didn't say what you accused me of. Israel is a Jewish state, the only one, and this shouldn't be new information. Show nested quote +On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. + Show Spoiler +History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide. Show nested quote +On January 18 2024 05:28 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 04:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 03:59 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 03:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 02:20 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 01:44 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 01:26 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:
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So does that also apply to people in favour of violence against Hamas and their ilk? That's literally everyone, so yes. Everyone is in favour of violence against Hamas? I was under the impression based on the words they wrote that Hamas is as bad as they are because of Israel. Can you think of someone who said in the thread that it was wrong to kill Hamas militants? Cause if not, I'm a little confused with why you're getting stuck on this. If Hamas is in Israel currently killing Israelis than people seem to agree killing them is fine. If they are in Gaza and not currently killing Israelis is where the disagreements happen. Some people have stated that Israel should not attack outside of the borders no matter what because that can’t be defense. Others like me have suggested that shouldn’t because the cost of civilian life is too high with their human shield strategy. Then there are more complicated questions that anti Israeli posters avoid even talking about, like for example, is someone a civilian if they are hosting a tunnel entrance in their house? How much support of Hamas makes a person a legitimate target? I wonder if your passion for killing fascists and their supporters travels to Hamas supporters? It does yes, but not in the way that you want.I support violent resistance against authoritarianism the world over, by the people who are the victims of it. When an exterior force comes in and takes up that fight, that is something that I have more trouble with because mechanically what it creates is more support for the authoritarian group, as happened during the war in Afghanistan. People who otherwise wouldn't develop far right ideas see their countrymen being attacked by a foreign force, and naturally side with the group that is doing resistance not because they're very into far right ideas but because that's the group that is fighting back. These types of foreign interventions create more support for authoritarians, and therefore they're counterproductive, so I wouldn't be in support of that violence in principle and I am even less in support of it in practice because usually the foreign group is not just selflessly doing an antifascism, chances are they're self-interested and trying to fuck over the people of that country in some way as well. This is why, while I definitely support Afghani people violently resisting the Talibans, I have more trouble supporting the US doing it. This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question. That's the general rule for foreign intervention, but in the case of Israel, Israel is not only "not selflessly doing an antifascism", it's even worse, it's a bunch of far right people trying to reach a population that they want to ethnically cleanse, as we can clearly see from their methods, their words, the result of their actions, or from the fact that they're trying to expand as far as they can the definition of "Hamas supporter" so that they get to kill more Palestinians, as you alluded to in the post. This isn't antifascist violence, this is fascist violence, so clearly I'm not in support of it. Just so we're clear, that was a "no" on you being capable of finding someone who is uncomfortable with killing Hamas militants, so I was right when I said everyone is comfortable with that? Paragraph 1 Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions... So what exactly is what I want? Feel free to actually take a stab Paragraph 2. Hamas is the external force, they are a proxy army of Iran, do you dispute it or just ignore it? And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back. Paragraph 3 Nothing says your not anti-Israel like calling them a bunch of far right people trying to ethnically cleanse. Is there people in Israel with those beliefs, of course. 25%-45% a significant part. What is the percentage of people in Gaza that want to commit genocide against Israel? What % supported and cheered for the sexual violence, torture and murder? And yet I do not see you making sweeping statements about the Palestinians? Why is that? Here is the rub, if someone actually used your extremely biased logic in the other direction they would support the exact thing that you say you are against. Paragraph 4. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with killing Hamas members, this is why you have now changed your initial statement and added the word militant. Even then we have a few I'm not sure on, if they were actively killing babies and raping women in Israel, I think no one. If they were sheltered in a tunnel in Gaza, I think quiet a few would be against that. If they were donating money to Hamas, I think lots of people would be against that. If they were hosting tunnel entrances in their homes, I think a lot of people would be against it. That you are against the Hamas members that are actually out there killing babies and raping women is not that far from the "few bad apples" kind of thoughts you profess to hate in other threads. "In the way that you want" was just a turn of phrase, I meant "in the way that you're envisioning when you're writing this paragraph". I didn't mean to imply that you want it, I apologize. To answer your question, I don't think you want many specific things regarding the Palestinian conflict, I think it's much more important to you to disagree with GH me or Drone (and now the other people that you're starting to dislike because of this thread) than any real world stuff. Hamas is obviously not an external force, as it's composed of an absurdly large majority of Palestinians (if not a totality? I don't really know if there's a way to know that, but it doesn't matter). There is no significant percentage of Iranians flocking to Gaza to join Hamas. What a silly claim. "And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back." => "This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question." I can't say I'm surprised but come on. Israel is currently run by a far right government, who is operating the war machine. The people who are not far right in Israel are not the people who are running this war, and as such my claim is justified. If you want to call me anti-Israel because I claimed some fascists are fascists, then you can, but I will not be impressed. For a line of fun, notice that you started your post with "Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions" and then you ended it with a paragraph about how I'm not comfortable with killing Hamas militants (or members, I don't know what the difference is supposed to be lol) even though I say I am. + Show Spoiler +Appreciate the sorta apology. You got it completely wrong (other than that I don't like three arrogant self righteous pricks who are and continue to be assholes to me, I would be a moronic door mat to not dislike them). I'd say it again, but we both know you would just keep on believing your assumption.
Hamas is a proxy army for Iran, their, weapons, ideology, financing is all Iran, TBH I'm shocked you believe the propaganda. Fatah well flawed is Palestinian and they lost to Hamas, brutally, because of the Iranian backing.
Your bolded part does not counter what I said, I'm not saying you support the attack on Israel, I'm saying you are not applying your logic in both directions. I'm trying to point out the lack of consistency.
And for your last paragraph, I really do not know if it is your reading comprehension (which I doubt but it becoming a more and more realistic option considering how incredibly wrong you get things). I literally explain what I mean, I said you are comfortable killing the people with the guns while they are doing the horrible acts. I'm NOT SURE on the other members of Hamas you are OK with killing of what level of support to Hamas they need to give to meet your level.
I also think that you and the other people in this thread that appear in lock step would likely have different opinions on those thresholds. I also suspect your threshold to when you would enact violence on a "fascist" or supporter of fascism is much different than Hamas. I don't however think you are at GH levels where any communist can kill whoever in his revolution call them a capitalist and be OK. I also don't think you believe all the antisemitic tropes GH does (just with the word capitalist swapped for Jew, to make it more palatable for the lefty). Show nested quote +On February 15 2024 22:47 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 11:53 WombaT wrote:On February 15 2024 10:12 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 10:01 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:On February 15 2024 10:00 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 09:51 Magic Powers wrote:On February 15 2024 09:29 Jockmcplop wrote:
It seems to me that the civilians have been systematically pushed into Rafah, rather than it being an unfortunate consequence of circumstances.
You don't get over a million people in an area that tiny by accident.
The problem here is that there is now a standoff. Its pretty hard for Israel to do anything at all without causing absolute carnage among civilians, so I don't really see what their endgame could possibly be. The pro-Israel camp has justified all future deaths regardless of the count and regardless of the destruction. There is no limit. War is peace. The problem with the Israelis are evil fan fiction you keep writing is you miss any nuance making it wholly unrealistic. He did not write that? You are not aware that basically all Israelis are pro Israel? Even the ones who are anti war are pro Israel, basically every Jewish person in the world is pro Israel. So when you write what MP writes you are calling all Israelis and likely all Jewish people evil. Whether or not that is intended or not only he knows, but that is the message he is writing with his hot takes. Within a thread that massively discusses the Israeli/Palestine conflict almost exclusively, I feel contextually ‘pro-Israel camp’ should be pretty likely to be referring to ‘pro Israel’s conduct in this conflict’ rather than ‘pro Israel existing’. And in addition MP goes on to talk specifically about deaths, destruction and indeed war. Sure crossed wires happen, but how did you pivot that all the way over to ‘…likely all Jewish people evil’ being the messaging here? In fairness you did add a caveat regarding intent, but it’s a ludicrously uncharitable interpretation of what he wrote. + Show Spoiler +More or less ludicrous than his interpretation of everyone of Cerebrates posts?
There is plenty of actual bad things the IDF is doing and saying they are doing to talk about that there is no need to pretend someone knows what they “actually want to do”. The power imbalance is such (and MP spent ample time discussing the power imbalance this is why he thinks IDF has all agency and this is Hamas only option) that the IDF can do what every they want. If they actually wanted to kill as many Palestinians as possible they simply would, they easily could.
You can discuss how they are willing to destroy massive amounts of civilian infrastructure to get Hamas. You can discuss how they are willing to kill more civilians, even children, to get Hamas. You can talk about how wrong that is. How it will create an endless loop of hate. There is plenty of other real things you can discuss. But when you start moving into the “they want them all dead” category, you end up dangerously close to the blood libel category of antisemitism. + Show Spoiler +Next there is absolutely no need to be a complete asshole to Cerebrate1 every time he posts. Disagree with what he actually says do not make fan fiction about what MP thinks he really feels, especially when that is so hateful. It basically shows a mirror into how MP feels as Cerebrate1 has never exposed hate.
The interesting thing about this site is you have people all over the world with different backgrounds and experiences. The different opinions are what makes it interesting. Cerebrate has a way more in depth knowledge than anyone else here on the conflict. I’m not saying you have to agree but the bar is pretty low at not transforming everything he says into some hateful message he never gave. Show nested quote +On November 20 2023 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On November 20 2023 09:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 08:22 JimmiC wrote:On November 20 2023 06:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 05:53 JimmiC wrote:
What part of my position makes me Pro Israel? You’ve repeatedly said this and I was wondering if you could articulate it. Because me and the others you have listed have some pretty divergent views.
This is the third time you quoted a post and still didnt even adress my questions.. I will as I basically do all the time answer yours.. but it will probably be the last time .. seeing as you dont even have the courtesy to do it yourself.. What part of your position makes you pro israel? You literally felt the need to play the "u are antisemites card" but arent pro Israel? Ok then my man.. Good riddance People who do not like antisemitism are pro Israel? I thought we just called those people not awful. This is why I do not respond to your posts, you clearly have not read any thing I’ve written. Why would I put in the effort when you are just going to shit post about me? From yours I have read that you already know so much more from YouTube videos and this is just a waste of time so your done, but then you just come back and rinse repeat. I never said that. You did also not say that you dont like antisemitism. You said people here were antisemtic ok? So once more you are lying or not that bright (Im sorry for the ad hominem but what else can it be ffs) I mean im sorry but I asked a simple question. Even made it easier with 1) 2) Y/N ect.. So Im a bit confused. I feel like you are evading but.. well.. apparently you dont like to respond to my posts yet half of the time you do.. you just write untrue stuff.. It is really just absurdly annoying at this point. + Show Spoiler +If you don’t want to engage with stop asking me questions by name. It is not a strange request for me to ask you to if you are genuinely interested in my thoughts. And also, it would statistically unbelievable if no one who participates in these threads have antisemitic bias. + Show Spoiler +Sorry not sorry that you can’t handle that or whatever your issue is, just actually follow through of your repeated threat of going away, or at least stop making it. The last one is my personal favorite. You repeatedly employed this argument "well it's statistically unlikely that nobody here is anti-Semitic so...." what a ridiculous thing to say. I'm not saying any of you have a whore for a mother, I'm just saying it would be statistically unlikely if some of you didn't have a mother who gobbles cocks... just saying... lmao Anyway I don't think the record reflects that you "very rarely" bring out the anti-semitism card as you've claimed.
No it really does not.
I’d say I run into genuine anti-Semitism on the daily if I’m actively browsing the internet. It could come up anywhere, in the comments of a lets play of Dune (springs to mind as I just encountered), a Reddit thread about knitting, a Facebook post about amusing cats, never mind explicitly political content.
Jimmy is 100% correct to point out this phenomenon in a more general sense, I just unfollowed a page for silly AI art nonsense when they wouldn’t moderate grotesque, obvious anti-Semitic caricatures.
On here though? No I really don’t find myself observing it and I’m quite proud to be amongst Liquidians who in this domain, and in many others don’t tolerate discriminatory behaviour of all sorts.
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On April 09 2024 06:59 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 06:44 BlackJack wrote:On April 09 2024 05:46 JimmiC wrote:On April 09 2024 04:24 Broetchenholer wrote:On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide. Not every one sided overgeneralisation of Israels contribution to the conflict is anti-semitism and you should not pull that card out whenever you disagree with someone vehemently. I would say Israel has continued to move towards an Apartheid state ever since it became the clear winner of the good ole nationalism days and before that some of what they did was excusable due to existential thread and somewhat different times. And you know that yourself, but for some reason, i guess because Nebuchad and GH have taken a lean towards Palestine, you have to find a more extreme position on the other side of the discussion and it's really weird. Your argument is always, i hate Netanyahu, what is happening is bad, i wish it was different, but in this case, i guess Palestinean civilians, international aid workers, Syrians, Journalists, Lebanese they all just have to die. RenSC2 just casually said, that Palestineans should be punished a few decades for what their despots did. Cool. Guess that's the argument you now have to defend. This situation is messy and terrible, there is no simple solution and the ones that have the most uncomplicated opinion of it are almost always wrong. You are trying very hard to have an uncomplicated opinion in the last few pages and whenever you are called out, you seem to double down. Probably because other people here have also had way too uncomplicated opinions before, me certainly, stilt now definately, but also Ren and cerebrate. Like you said, the world is not black and white. Thank goodness I don’t bring it out every time, in fact I bring it out very rarely. This is another thing you can easily check on but doubtful you will. I bring it out when a hateful person says that all Israelis are genocidal and have been since 1948, because it is anti-Semitic Ok, let's check On November 01 2023 23:51 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:42 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:29 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:23 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 23:19 JimmiC wrote:On November 01 2023 23:05 Nebuchad wrote:On November 01 2023 22:32 JimmiC wrote:
People are arguing that Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas. People are arguing that Israel isn't "striking back" at Hamas. The premise is a lie. Hamas is "striking back" at Israel, btw. That doesn't make them justified in their targeting of civilians, nor does it make the question "ah but what else should Hamas do" an interesting one How kind of you to pull something out of context and treat it as a lone statement. You can't attack back at just Hamas because of their strategy of imbedding in civilians. Don't be so naive. In the context did you write "I realize that my portrayal of the argument I'm facing as "Israel has no right to strike back at Hamas" was inaccurate"? You would have to read my posts without hate in your heart for me and Israel which seems impossible for you. It is that they can not strike back against Hamas without killing a bunch of innocents. I've been extremely clear about this and you refuse to be remotely fair with me. So I understood correctly, and I'm pointing out that they aren't striking back at Hamas. + Show Spoiler +Nope, they are which is causing massive civilian causalities. I disagree with the approach not it is impossible. I get that it’s easier for you to read what you want to read because of your blatant bias against me and your unconscious antisemitism but it’s not worth my time to go back and forth with you + Show Spoiler +because if I drop to your level I’ll get banned with a PM from Drone calling me an idiot. So good luck and I hope you had a great Halloween last night and at some point are able to come to terms with how you see yourself and your actual beliefs. On November 09 2023 04:22 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:44 Godwrath wrote:On November 09 2023 03:40 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:32 Magic Powers wrote:On November 09 2023 03:24 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 03:17 Gorsameth wrote:On November 09 2023 03:02 JimmiC wrote:On November 09 2023 01:39 Sent. wrote:
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This is such a weird interaction. What's the point of destroying those buildings after allowing their inhabitants to evacuate? Is this about destroying combat equipment potentially stored in the buildings? You can't expect to kill your enemies like this so I can't come up with any other rational explanation. Some of it is to destroy equipment, some of it is to destroy spots where militants can hide, a lot of it is to destroy entrances to the massive tunnel system. Odd choice to warn people you want to ethnically cleanse when warning allows everyone including the militants to flee. A reminder that ethnic cleansing doesn't just cover killing, but also includes forced displacement. But forced displacement alone does not mean ethnic cleansing. And certainly not genocide which is also being used freely. I think you might want to look up the definition of ethnic cleansing. "Forced displacement" (of an ethnic group) is the first thing that comes up. Yes if they end up forcing all Palestinians out of Gaza that would be ethnic cleansing. That many of you believe it is fact that is the goal is not in fact a fact. Only if it's displacing all of them right? If it's (all - 1) it's not ethnic cleanse. Of course not. But it’s easier for all of you to feel good about your antisemitism and insult me rather than confront it. + Show Spoiler +There is all sorts of awful things happening in the world most of them people from the outside are able to see it from both sides, point out the awful from both sides but also have some empathy towards why that side is doing awful things. I mean it is easy for many of you to easily justify Hamas actions and the people hiding and helping them. Yet zero in the opposite way and if anyone try’s to talk about you have jump down their throats with all sorts of anger and logical fallacy. On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. + Show Spoiler + On March 08 2024 06:00 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:
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Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If I was to reply to this with: 'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism? + Show Spoiler +I mean that would be the antisemitic response to what is going on. Because if it was true they would have done is over and over with their 10 gobillion stronger than everyone army and space lasers.
Like if we talking about not Israel and Jews you would be all over this. Seriously, no point me posting them anymore because it is clear you are not reading them, but there is a shit ton of academic research and papers on antisemitism in the left. And tons of the boxes get checked here fairly regularly. Does that mean lots of people here are antisemites? No it does not, does it mean that many people here are ingesting a lot of antisemitic material without realizing what it is? Yes it does. + Show Spoiler +All the people you have spent calling racists, or saying racist dog whistles, feel exactly like you do right now, crazy isn't it? On March 08 2024 06:37 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:32 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:24 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:18 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off. On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't. Wow, how embarrassing for you. Wait until you find out how it got started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state#:~:text=10 External links-,Overview,for British Palestine in 1947. I've read this wiki page before, it's a good summary of how far right and unequal zionist ideology is at a fundamental level. But I'm not a zionist though, so I'm unsure why I would be embarrassed by it. BTW one of the common ways leftists who are antisemites hide it, is by jus saying things about zionists. Might have ticked all the boxes now, congrats! + Show Spoiler +Seriously you should read up even ifit is just to argue me, at least you will have some basis to do so.
You should be embarrassed because as per usual I didn't say what you accused me of. Israel is a Jewish state, the only one, and this shouldn't be new information. On April 08 2024 22:09 JimmiC wrote:On April 08 2024 21:50 stilt wrote:On April 08 2024 05:36 RenSC2 wrote:On April 07 2024 19:11 Magic Powers wrote:
Isn't it remarkable how Hamas managed to draw so much positive attention to the Palestinian suffering despite only killing 0.012% of Israeli people? It's but a scratch in the Israeli population! Finally Palestinians have a future to look forward to thanks to rapidly growing international support, and virtually no one had to die for it.
It's just so unfortunate that Israel is the literal demonic evil hell-bent on destroying the entire Arabic world, and we must support Hamas in their holy cause that will save the world.
Faulty math is a commonly used tool of apologists and fanatics. We need to be better than that and not fall into the same mental trap. I know that you're partially saying these things sarcastically, but it's also kind of the point that needs to be made. People siding with Palestine are rewarding terrorism. They're telling every fanatic around the world that they can go on a rape, murder, and hostage taking spree and get rewarded for it. When pressed, people in this thread will say how much they dislike Hamas while at the same time pushing policies that reward Hamas for being genocidal maniacs. It doesn't make sense. Stop rewarding Hamas or at least be open and honest that you side with Hamas's terrorism. Be open that you approve of rape, murder, and kidnapping as a means to get what you want... so long as it happens to the right minority. Because that's what you're doing even while you decry the violence. You can't eat your cake and have it too. I think differently. Every Palestinian death is the fault of Hamas. The international community needs to stop with its bullshit and place the blame squarely where it needs to go, on Hamas. I know the international community is too cowardly to directly punish Hamas, just as they won't do anything real to stop Russia from invading Ukraine. However, they can at least make it known that Hamas will be blamed for everything and give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it takes to hold Hamas responsible. Punish terrorism. The israelis are genocidal maniac since the ethnic cleasing of 1948. Their contemporan policies of destroying muslim place is linked to the thousands of palestinians jailed without judgment while tsahal is getting away with murdering hundred of palestinians every years including two years old without any consequences way before the 07/10. You're of them as well by the way with your carte blanche stuff, I suppose you're denying the israeli induced famine in gaza as well. It's weird, every advocate for genocide always end up being a negationnist in the end. Wowza, just leading off post with full fledged antisemitism. At least when you take the mask off we don’t have to guess any more. + Show Spoiler +History, for non antisemitic people is not really this one sided or black and white. They were actually being gassed in Europe during this decade, actually being systematically exterminated with the intent to remove them all from existence. You know, actual genocide. On January 18 2024 05:28 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 04:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 03:59 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 03:32 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 02:36 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 02:20 Nebuchad wrote:On January 18 2024 01:44 JimmiC wrote:On January 18 2024 01:26 Nebuchad wrote:
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That's literally everyone, so yes. Everyone is in favour of violence against Hamas? I was under the impression based on the words they wrote that Hamas is as bad as they are because of Israel. Can you think of someone who said in the thread that it was wrong to kill Hamas militants? Cause if not, I'm a little confused with why you're getting stuck on this. If Hamas is in Israel currently killing Israelis than people seem to agree killing them is fine. If they are in Gaza and not currently killing Israelis is where the disagreements happen. Some people have stated that Israel should not attack outside of the borders no matter what because that can’t be defense. Others like me have suggested that shouldn’t because the cost of civilian life is too high with their human shield strategy. Then there are more complicated questions that anti Israeli posters avoid even talking about, like for example, is someone a civilian if they are hosting a tunnel entrance in their house? How much support of Hamas makes a person a legitimate target? I wonder if your passion for killing fascists and their supporters travels to Hamas supporters? It does yes, but not in the way that you want.I support violent resistance against authoritarianism the world over, by the people who are the victims of it. When an exterior force comes in and takes up that fight, that is something that I have more trouble with because mechanically what it creates is more support for the authoritarian group, as happened during the war in Afghanistan. People who otherwise wouldn't develop far right ideas see their countrymen being attacked by a foreign force, and naturally side with the group that is doing resistance not because they're very into far right ideas but because that's the group that is fighting back. These types of foreign interventions create more support for authoritarians, and therefore they're counterproductive, so I wouldn't be in support of that violence in principle and I am even less in support of it in practice because usually the foreign group is not just selflessly doing an antifascism, chances are they're self-interested and trying to fuck over the people of that country in some way as well. This is why, while I definitely support Afghani people violently resisting the Talibans, I have more trouble supporting the US doing it. This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question. That's the general rule for foreign intervention, but in the case of Israel, Israel is not only "not selflessly doing an antifascism", it's even worse, it's a bunch of far right people trying to reach a population that they want to ethnically cleanse, as we can clearly see from their methods, their words, the result of their actions, or from the fact that they're trying to expand as far as they can the definition of "Hamas supporter" so that they get to kill more Palestinians, as you alluded to in the post. This isn't antifascist violence, this is fascist violence, so clearly I'm not in support of it. Just so we're clear, that was a "no" on you being capable of finding someone who is uncomfortable with killing Hamas militants, so I was right when I said everyone is comfortable with that? Paragraph 1 Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions... So what exactly is what I want? Feel free to actually take a stab Paragraph 2. Hamas is the external force, they are a proxy army of Iran, do you dispute it or just ignore it? And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back. Paragraph 3 Nothing says your not anti-Israel like calling them a bunch of far right people trying to ethnically cleanse. Is there people in Israel with those beliefs, of course. 25%-45% a significant part. What is the percentage of people in Gaza that want to commit genocide against Israel? What % supported and cheered for the sexual violence, torture and murder? And yet I do not see you making sweeping statements about the Palestinians? Why is that? Here is the rub, if someone actually used your extremely biased logic in the other direction they would support the exact thing that you say you are against. Paragraph 4. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with killing Hamas members, this is why you have now changed your initial statement and added the word militant. Even then we have a few I'm not sure on, if they were actively killing babies and raping women in Israel, I think no one. If they were sheltered in a tunnel in Gaza, I think quiet a few would be against that. If they were donating money to Hamas, I think lots of people would be against that. If they were hosting tunnel entrances in their homes, I think a lot of people would be against it. That you are against the Hamas members that are actually out there killing babies and raping women is not that far from the "few bad apples" kind of thoughts you profess to hate in other threads. "In the way that you want" was just a turn of phrase, I meant "in the way that you're envisioning when you're writing this paragraph". I didn't mean to imply that you want it, I apologize. To answer your question, I don't think you want many specific things regarding the Palestinian conflict, I think it's much more important to you to disagree with GH me or Drone (and now the other people that you're starting to dislike because of this thread) than any real world stuff. Hamas is obviously not an external force, as it's composed of an absurdly large majority of Palestinians (if not a totality? I don't really know if there's a way to know that, but it doesn't matter). There is no significant percentage of Iranians flocking to Gaza to join Hamas. What a silly claim. "And then it goes to that they are creating a situation where Israeli's who wouldn't normally be far right are being pushed in that direction. They are supporting the IDF not because they have those ideals but because they are the group fighting back." => "This logic also works the other way around when it comes to Palestine attacking Israel, which is why I also don't support the violence of events like Oct 7th, so you can delete the paragraph that you started to write asking me that question." I can't say I'm surprised but come on. Israel is currently run by a far right government, who is operating the war machine. The people who are not far right in Israel are not the people who are running this war, and as such my claim is justified. If you want to call me anti-Israel because I claimed some fascists are fascists, then you can, but I will not be impressed. For a line of fun, notice that you started your post with "Glad to see you're still incapable of not being a slave to your assumptions" and then you ended it with a paragraph about how I'm not comfortable with killing Hamas militants (or members, I don't know what the difference is supposed to be lol) even though I say I am. + Show Spoiler +Appreciate the sorta apology. You got it completely wrong (other than that I don't like three arrogant self righteous pricks who are and continue to be assholes to me, I would be a moronic door mat to not dislike them). I'd say it again, but we both know you would just keep on believing your assumption.
Hamas is a proxy army for Iran, their, weapons, ideology, financing is all Iran, TBH I'm shocked you believe the propaganda. Fatah well flawed is Palestinian and they lost to Hamas, brutally, because of the Iranian backing.
Your bolded part does not counter what I said, I'm not saying you support the attack on Israel, I'm saying you are not applying your logic in both directions. I'm trying to point out the lack of consistency.
And for your last paragraph, I really do not know if it is your reading comprehension (which I doubt but it becoming a more and more realistic option considering how incredibly wrong you get things). I literally explain what I mean, I said you are comfortable killing the people with the guns while they are doing the horrible acts. I'm NOT SURE on the other members of Hamas you are OK with killing of what level of support to Hamas they need to give to meet your level.
I also think that you and the other people in this thread that appear in lock step would likely have different opinions on those thresholds. I also suspect your threshold to when you would enact violence on a "fascist" or supporter of fascism is much different than Hamas. I don't however think you are at GH levels where any communist can kill whoever in his revolution call them a capitalist and be OK. I also don't think you believe all the antisemitic tropes GH does (just with the word capitalist swapped for Jew, to make it more palatable for the lefty). On February 15 2024 22:47 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 11:53 WombaT wrote:On February 15 2024 10:12 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 10:01 FriedrichNietzsche wrote:On February 15 2024 10:00 JimmiC wrote:On February 15 2024 09:51 Magic Powers wrote:On February 15 2024 09:29 Jockmcplop wrote:
It seems to me that the civilians have been systematically pushed into Rafah, rather than it being an unfortunate consequence of circumstances.
You don't get over a million people in an area that tiny by accident.
The problem here is that there is now a standoff. Its pretty hard for Israel to do anything at all without causing absolute carnage among civilians, so I don't really see what their endgame could possibly be. The pro-Israel camp has justified all future deaths regardless of the count and regardless of the destruction. There is no limit. War is peace. The problem with the Israelis are evil fan fiction you keep writing is you miss any nuance making it wholly unrealistic. He did not write that? You are not aware that basically all Israelis are pro Israel? Even the ones who are anti war are pro Israel, basically every Jewish person in the world is pro Israel. So when you write what MP writes you are calling all Israelis and likely all Jewish people evil. Whether or not that is intended or not only he knows, but that is the message he is writing with his hot takes. Within a thread that massively discusses the Israeli/Palestine conflict almost exclusively, I feel contextually ‘pro-Israel camp’ should be pretty likely to be referring to ‘pro Israel’s conduct in this conflict’ rather than ‘pro Israel existing’. And in addition MP goes on to talk specifically about deaths, destruction and indeed war. Sure crossed wires happen, but how did you pivot that all the way over to ‘…likely all Jewish people evil’ being the messaging here? In fairness you did add a caveat regarding intent, but it’s a ludicrously uncharitable interpretation of what he wrote. + Show Spoiler +More or less ludicrous than his interpretation of everyone of Cerebrates posts?
There is plenty of actual bad things the IDF is doing and saying they are doing to talk about that there is no need to pretend someone knows what they “actually want to do”. The power imbalance is such (and MP spent ample time discussing the power imbalance this is why he thinks IDF has all agency and this is Hamas only option) that the IDF can do what every they want. If they actually wanted to kill as many Palestinians as possible they simply would, they easily could.
You can discuss how they are willing to destroy massive amounts of civilian infrastructure to get Hamas. You can discuss how they are willing to kill more civilians, even children, to get Hamas. You can talk about how wrong that is. How it will create an endless loop of hate. There is plenty of other real things you can discuss. But when you start moving into the “they want them all dead” category, you end up dangerously close to the blood libel category of antisemitism. + Show Spoiler +Next there is absolutely no need to be a complete asshole to Cerebrate1 every time he posts. Disagree with what he actually says do not make fan fiction about what MP thinks he really feels, especially when that is so hateful. It basically shows a mirror into how MP feels as Cerebrate1 has never exposed hate.
The interesting thing about this site is you have people all over the world with different backgrounds and experiences. The different opinions are what makes it interesting. Cerebrate has a way more in depth knowledge than anyone else here on the conflict. I’m not saying you have to agree but the bar is pretty low at not transforming everything he says into some hateful message he never gave. On November 20 2023 10:53 JimmiC wrote:On November 20 2023 09:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 08:22 JimmiC wrote:On November 20 2023 06:15 MaGic~PhiL wrote:On November 20 2023 05:53 JimmiC wrote:
What part of my position makes me Pro Israel? You’ve repeatedly said this and I was wondering if you could articulate it. Because me and the others you have listed have some pretty divergent views.
This is the third time you quoted a post and still didnt even adress my questions.. I will as I basically do all the time answer yours.. but it will probably be the last time .. seeing as you dont even have the courtesy to do it yourself.. What part of your position makes you pro israel? You literally felt the need to play the "u are antisemites card" but arent pro Israel? Ok then my man.. Good riddance People who do not like antisemitism are pro Israel? I thought we just called those people not awful. This is why I do not respond to your posts, you clearly have not read any thing I’ve written. Why would I put in the effort when you are just going to shit post about me? From yours I have read that you already know so much more from YouTube videos and this is just a waste of time so your done, but then you just come back and rinse repeat. I never said that. You did also not say that you dont like antisemitism. You said people here were antisemtic ok? So once more you are lying or not that bright (Im sorry for the ad hominem but what else can it be ffs) I mean im sorry but I asked a simple question. Even made it easier with 1) 2) Y/N ect.. So Im a bit confused. I feel like you are evading but.. well.. apparently you dont like to respond to my posts yet half of the time you do.. you just write untrue stuff.. It is really just absurdly annoying at this point. + Show Spoiler +If you don’t want to engage with stop asking me questions by name. It is not a strange request for me to ask you to if you are genuinely interested in my thoughts. And also, it would statistically unbelievable if no one who participates in these threads have antisemitic bias. + Show Spoiler +Sorry not sorry that you can’t handle that or whatever your issue is, just actually follow through of your repeated threat of going away, or at least stop making it. The last one is my personal favorite. You repeatedly employed this argument "well it's statistically unlikely that nobody here is anti-Semitic so...." what a ridiculous thing to say. I'm not saying any of you have a whore for a mother, I'm just saying it would be statistically unlikely if some of you didn't have a mother who gobbles cocks... just saying... lmao Anyway I don't think the record reflects that you "very rarely" bring out the anti-semitism card as you've claimed. Even few of those are me calling people anti-Semites. There are going to be MANY people who ingest anti-Semitism or say anti-Semitic tropes. You are a great example with your "follow the money" comment of way earlier on. It is a anti-Semitic trope but I have not called you anti-Semitic, because as far as I can tell you are not.
"Follow the money" is not an anti-Semitic trope lol. Maybe you just see anti-Semitism where you want to see it. Which is, of course, "very rarely."
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