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Governor of Hawaii still waiting for things to get worse before he institutes a curfew or tourism ban.
I fucking hate how stupid he is. Grow some fucking balls.
We just had two cruise ships dock in the island of Oahu. THAT IS NOT OKAY. We’re told that no one is allowed to leave the ship but that still doesn’t make things safer for everyone living on the island.
Holy fucking shit I’m fucking livid honestly.
Also:
I get the toilet paper jokes here are mostly satire but I wouldn’t worry about there being a nation outage (in the US at least). I work in a distribution company in Hawaii and there is PLENTY in the paper category. The outages you see are mostly on a retail level. But as far as manufacturing and distribution logistics goes, it’s still fine. It’s the hoarders that are disrupting the consistent flow to the shelves. So there’s a bottleneck created by getting it from the warehouses and to the stores. Truck drivers are working extreme overtime to mitigate this spike in demand. I’m only speaking to that of Hawaii, I guess. Things might be different on the mainland. It takes 6-8 weeks by container ships and we’re still well-stocked. Just getting it to the stores is the problem.
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My local stores have started instituting lots of strict limits on necessities. Limit of 2 things of toilet paper per customer, same for hand sanitizer. Saw a limit on cold and flu items at the pharmacy as well.
Also, California has just put out a stay in place order. That's 40 million people essentially in quarantine.
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https://www.change.org/p/hospital-administrators-us-physicians-healthcare-workers-for-personal-protective-equipment-in-covid-19-pandemic-do-not-donate?signed=true
I don't put much stock in change.org petitions but this is something I think everyone should be able to agree on. Physicians and nurses around the country are being asked to re-use their PPE for their entire shift when it's intended for a single use. Patients are being lowered from airborne isolation to droplet isolation simply because all they have left is simple face masks instead of N-95s/PAPRs.
As a result of this shortage, recommendations from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) for appropriate PPE for HCWs on the frontlines have shifted. This shift does not come in response to overwhelming evidence, rather to a supply chain issue.
As quoted directly from the CDC website: “PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19: Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand."..."When the supply chain is restored, facilities with a respiratory protection program should return to use of respirators for patients with known or suspected COVID-19."(1)
CDC even came out with recommendations for nurses to cover their faces with bandanas and scarves if they can't get access to PPE. Absurd.
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On March 20 2020 12:46 Nevuk wrote:My local stores have started instituting lots of strict limits on necessities. Limit of 2 things of toilet paper per customer, same for hand sanitizer. Saw a limit on cold and flu items at the pharmacy as well. Also, California has just put out a stay in place order. That's 40 million people essentially in quarantine. https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1240816931025928193
Looking forward to Gamestop and Gov. Newsom fighting it out.
“Due to the products we carry that enable and enhance our customers’ experience in working from home, we believe GameStop is classified as essential retail and therefore is able to remain open during this time,” the retailer said in a memo to staff this afternoon, obtained by Kotaku.
“We have received reports of local authorities visiting stores in an attempt to enforce closure despite our classification. Store Managers are approved to provide the document linked below to law enforcement as needed.”
Haven't had any fights like that here yet but a lot of stuff (especially outside Seattle proper) is still open through this weekend most likely.
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Ontario, Canada.
Chest feels tighter like there is an elastic band around my lungs.
Spent a total of 8 hours on the phone today. Did not get through to a single human being. 8 hours of being on hold on the phone line that their website directed me to call. After one 6 hour wait on hold the call was dropped and I was on a landline... Eventually I called a similar line and asked for a call back. This was some time ago and I'm not exactly expecting a callback.
Can people in other countries call health line professionals?
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On March 20 2020 13:01 SK.Testie wrote:
Ontario, Canada.
Chest feels tighter like there is an elastic band around my lungs.
Spent a total of 8 hours on the phone today. Did not get through to a single human being. 8 hours of being on hold on the phone line that their website directed me to call. After one 6 hour wait on hold the call was dropped and I was on a landline... Eventually I called a similar line and asked for a call back. This was some time ago and I'm not exactly expecting a callback.
Can people in other countries call health line professionals?
huh if ur symtoms get worse just go to the hospital? call dibs on an ICU bed.
Canada reports 800 cases oficially, how can it be so bad?
My country has 320 confirmed cases, it has started a campaign for voluntary quarantine for 4 days now, coupled with restrictions on large gatherings and other measures. I hope this early measures allow us from avoiding full government-enforced quarantines.
The military has been deployed, improvised hospitals built, testing is widely availabe, etc. It's quite amazing our government took all this measures to prepare over a month ago when we didn't even have any cases basically.
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On March 20 2020 12:56 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2020 12:46 Nevuk wrote:My local stores have started instituting lots of strict limits on necessities. Limit of 2 things of toilet paper per customer, same for hand sanitizer. Saw a limit on cold and flu items at the pharmacy as well. Also, California has just put out a stay in place order. That's 40 million people essentially in quarantine. https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1240816931025928193 Looking forward to Gamestop and Gov. Newsom fighting it out. Show nested quote +“Due to the products we carry that enable and enhance our customers’ experience in working from home, we believe GameStop is classified as essential retail and therefore is able to remain open during this time,” the retailer said in a memo to staff this afternoon, obtained by Kotaku.
“We have received reports of local authorities visiting stores in an attempt to enforce closure despite our classification. Store Managers are approved to provide the document linked below to law enforcement as needed.” Haven't had any fights like that here yet but a lot of stuff (especially outside Seattle proper) is still open through this weekend most likely.
The trajectory of businesses that are desperate to stay open despite the obvious danger they pose in spreading the virus is... interesting, to say the least. The transition from "we'll be super duper extra careful" to "we're forced to close down" seems to take about a week in the current status quo for the average business. California seems to be where the most egregious cases of openly flouting government shutdown orders happen, with this GameStop example not even being the most troublesome example I've heard of.
I suspect it won't work. Every business wants to worm their way into being classified as "essential" and many shady and desperate companies have tried it. But as much as companies usually can worm their way out of consequences in breaking the law, you don't win that fight during a genuine national emergency.
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On March 20 2020 14:05 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2020 12:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 20 2020 12:46 Nevuk wrote:My local stores have started instituting lots of strict limits on necessities. Limit of 2 things of toilet paper per customer, same for hand sanitizer. Saw a limit on cold and flu items at the pharmacy as well. Also, California has just put out a stay in place order. That's 40 million people essentially in quarantine. https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1240816931025928193 Looking forward to Gamestop and Gov. Newsom fighting it out. “Due to the products we carry that enable and enhance our customers’ experience in working from home, we believe GameStop is classified as essential retail and therefore is able to remain open during this time,” the retailer said in a memo to staff this afternoon, obtained by Kotaku.
“We have received reports of local authorities visiting stores in an attempt to enforce closure despite our classification. Store Managers are approved to provide the document linked below to law enforcement as needed.” Haven't had any fights like that here yet but a lot of stuff (especially outside Seattle proper) is still open through this weekend most likely. The trajectory of businesses that are desperate to stay open despite the obvious danger they pose in spreading the virus is... interesting, to say the least. The transition from "we'll be super duper extra careful" to "we're forced to close down" seems to take about a week in the current status quo for the average business. California seems to be where the most egregious cases of openly flouting government shutdown orders happen, with this GameStop example not even being the most troublesome example I've heard of. I suspect it won't work. Every business wants to worm their way into being classified as "essential" and many shady and desperate companies have tried it. But as much as companies usually can worm their way out of consequences in breaking the law, you don't win that fight during a genuine national emergency.
My parents just decided to close their restaurant for at least a couple of weeks starting tomorrow, which they've run for almost 3 decades now. In that time it's never been closed for this long. Been renovations for few days at a time and so on but this is new. It was a few days of takeout only(basically covers the cost of employees under the assumption that food would've gone bad anyways), but they got rid of most of the perishable food now, and the rest of the perishables are open for employees to take, so it's now closed. Been through a lot, but retirement is definitely an option at this point.
I know a ton of other restaurants are closing indefinitely as well as there just isn't enough business to make it worth keeping the lights on.
Some of the ones staying open I think are family run ones which rely solely on the restaurant for income, where they're keeping it open just so they can pay rent.
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On March 20 2020 10:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2020 09:15 anon3297534 wrote:On March 20 2020 08:57 SK.Testie wrote:Canada, Ontario: Well, still the same symptoms here personally. They gave us this number If you think you have COVID-19, before you come to hospital, please be screened by Telehealth by calling 1-866-797-0000 However I called the number. I was on hold for 5 hours and 47 minutes. The call was dropped. Apparently the average wait time is 3 hours and 30 minutes. That's ridiculous. I just can't believe you can't be tested. Respiratory issues plus the others should immediately qualify you. Neither flu nor cold typically give you those respiratory symptoms. Ontario's medical system is falling to pieces. "Hallway medicine" has been going on for years. Now, hallway medicine is no longer viable due to coronavirus being contagious. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-hospital-hallway-medicine-healthcare-beyond-capacity-1.5420434https://torontolife.com/city/toronto-politics/health-minister-eric-hoskins-doctors-revolt/Show nested quote +"All across the province you have hospitals at extremely high levels of occupancy," said Dale in an interview with CBC News. "What we're seeing is that it's no longer just during the flu season but it's all year round." In my personal experience there is a generational war going on between nurses over 45 and nurses under 30 in Ontario. I'd say the nurses over 45 are far more effective at their job than nurses 20 years their junior. The new generation of nurses is great at excuses and creating administrative gridlock to defend their right to be wholly ineffective. Nurses over 45 are much better ad lib problem solvers. It is rather ironic that Ontario is now begging retired nurses to help with this crisis. https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/retired-health-care-workers-answer-the-call-for-help-amid-covid-19-pandemic-1.4857581i moved from Ontario, Canada to New York state. Best move I ever made. User was temp banned for this post.
I'm not surprised to see another anti-Ontario post from you -- it's clear that you hold a grudge and jump at any chance to post on the matter. And while I agree that there have been some really bad politics here over the past few decades, and you often raise some valid points, you seem to have some strong biases that cloud your objectivity.
While Ontario's healthcare system is definitely underfunded (like many other public healthcare systems), I wanted to address your criticism of younger nurses since I think it's definitely out of line. My son has been battling cancer for over one and half years, so we've had hundreds of nurses (my wife is also a physician). Almost all young nurses (i.e. under 30) that we've had (across acute settings like the ER/ICU and outpatient settings) have been highly competent and effective. Young nurses often have lots of energy, are more proactive, and are more competent with newer technology and electronic medical record systems. Because they have been trained fairly recently, they are also less likely to have outdated viewpoints or practices. Several years on a ward/unit is significant experience, additional years don't scale as significantly as you think beyond the first few years. Have we had bad young nurses? Yes, but we've also had bad older nurses. If we were given the choice to have a random nurse (young vs old), our preference would be to opt for the younger nurse assuming >2 years on the job (even in the ER/ICU). There's nothing wrong with older nurses (they have their share of amazing, competent people as well), however, the gap that you're claiming is not something that we have experienced in any way.
With respect to the coronavirus, I think it's unsurprising that Ontario is trying to call back as many retired healthcare professionals as possible. With a surge in patients and a loss of healthcare workers (to illness/quarantine) any healthcare system is at risk of being overwhelmed, as illustrated in Italy. I also think it's very unclear at this point whether or not New York will end up managing this crisis better than Ontario. I did my PhD in MA, and they have some of the greatest hospitals in the world, but I'm still happy that we were in Ontario when my son got sick since public healthcare makes a huge difference.
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Agreed with the posts above to keep this thread clean of mud-throwing. This is a time for everyone to band together to fight for a common cause, which is to keep casualties to a minimum.
Unfortunately it looks like we don't really have any good options left.
- quarantining only works well if respected on a large scale (or by most of population). In Wuhan, full quarantine was brought in around January 23, and it has taken nearly two full months before community spread was reduced to zero. This was on a "complete" quarantine (i.e. police to arrest quarantine breakers, food supplies being delivered to each household). I'm simply not sure this type of quarantine can be replicated at any scale in other parts of the world (it requires a combination of state supremacy and efficient logistics to implement).
- vaccines are still at least 15 months away (at least through normal procedures). Testing has started, but they are meant to observe side effects for 12 months and then it will take another 3 months to go through approval and industrialisation. That is simply far too long to maintain any quarantine.
- it is very important to spread the message about discipline in everyone's societies. Even if it isn't full quarantine at home, people can still try to reduce contact to a bare minimum. These include avoiding crowded public transport, avoiding places like cinemas, being flexible around work from home arrangements etc.
- there was a question above about why healthcare systems could be overwhelmed with so few cases. Taking the USA for example (these statistics can all be found by google): there are 100,000 ICU beds, there is usually 66% occupancy rate for ICU beds (i.e. even during normal times) and 12% of COVID19 patients need ICU treatment. With just these numbers, once we hit 278,000 infections in the USA, patients will literally need to be untreated. As of this writing, there are only 14,000 known cases in the USA, so it might seem far off, but in Northern Italy, I understand that threshold has already been reached. The above numbers also don't take into account how ICU beds are spread out in the USA, so in some places patients may not get treatment before we reach the threshold.
Please do take care everyone and do spread the word around. The problem with this situation is that you cannot combat it just by your own actions. It requires widespread coordination and cooperation amongst the entire population.
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Zurich15366 Posts
What do mean? Yes, it's a real thing.
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Ok ty for confirmation.
The link i saw on reddit but i could not find it anywhere else on the internet (there is no easy to find link on the bundesregierungs website to this initiative either) which made me doubt it a bit.
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On March 20 2020 11:02 anon3297534 wrote:
I'm down to two rolls of toilet paper. I'm rationing the one and de-plying the other. Once I'm completely out, I'm converting my shower into a makeshift bidet.
You still can't get toilet paper where you are? I checked the supermarket yesterday over here when I went for fresh veggies, and TP is fully stocked again. Cleaning alcohol, wipes, etc. aren't. So it seems most people have come to their senses again and the shortage is now for things people actually need more of than usual.
I understand you are self-quarantined with a suspected case of Corona virus, but don't you have a supermarket that does deliveries?
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There are 48 people infected (well, confirmed) in my city now plus 28 suspected and about 3000 in quarantine. Yesteraday a guy supected of carrying corona run away from hospital. 500 policemen were looking for him, they found him now he is gona be treated in arrest. They are not gona charge him with usual "breaking the quarantine" charge which ends in a fine but with "endengering life of multiple people" which carry with itself a prison sentence. Dont know if this is gonna stand in court but it certainly sends a message.
As to me, 95% of people in my company are working from home. I am one of the "lucky" ones that are too essential and have to be in office. When i was gone for one day and there was poweroutage in this part of the city a shitshow broke out and everything broke  Also this work from home really often turns into "work by proxy" i am constantly being ask thigs like "can You connect pendrive to my setup??", "can You restart my bench?", "can You reflash a target and connect to my setup?", "No, not NTFS, exFAT!"....
Usually on weekends i go for dinner to my parents but this time i am scared i am gonna pass this shit on them.
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In Germany there multiple new trickster methods to rob people. Seriously?
Would love to shot these guys in the face...
Method 1:
They call you and tell you that you are in danger of beeing infected, then they offer you a test but want 200 € for it. Playing right in peoples panic mode
Method 2:
They beg for money because they are "infected" and need money to get a treatment otherwiese they could die. Playing for peoples goodwill
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On March 20 2020 18:07 Harris1st wrote:
In Germany there multiple new trickster methods to rob people. Seriously?
Would love to shot these guys in the face...
Method 1:
They call you and tell you that you are in danger of beeing infected, then they offer you a test but want 200 € for it. Playing right in peoples panic mode
Method 2:
They beg for money because they are "infected" and need money to get a treatment otherwiese they could die. Playing for peoples goodwill
thats a nice way to rob people.
i have friends in vegas who say that people actually knock on doors claiming to do C19 tests etc but actually rob you at gunpoint.
regardless, sick world we live in.
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On March 20 2020 18:07 Harris1st wrote:
In Germany there multiple new trickster methods to rob people. Seriously?
Would love to shot these guys in the face...
Method 1:
They call you and tell you that you are in danger of beeing infected, then they offer you a test but want 200 € for it. Playing right in peoples panic mode
Method 2:
They beg for money because they are "infected" and need money to get a treatment otherwiese they could die. Playing for peoples goodwill
I guess your Home Affairs office knows about this or will know soon. Just report and raise awareness but it's annoying, yes.
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On March 20 2020 18:07 Harris1st wrote:
In Germany there multiple new trickster methods to rob people. Seriously?
Would love to shot these guys in the face...
Method 1:
They call you and tell you that you are in danger of beeing infected, then they offer you a test but want 200 € for it. Playing right in peoples panic mode
Method 2:
They beg for money because they are "infected" and need money to get a treatment otherwiese they could die. Playing for peoples goodwill
Two of the many scummy practices used by scum these days, others i've heard of recently>
- "disinfection" crews coming to elderly people, saying they're mandated to do it, and they need to be paid on the spot
- the obvious stockpiling huge quantities of stuff then price-gauging, thankfully governments seem to be willing to clap down on these lately.
- robbing hospitals and deposits of sanitary goods
I've posted about the other aspect, meaning the jobs/economy, and it seems to be getting worse pretty fast. Lots of people are laid off or suspended, businesses are closing. Governments are trying to come up with measures, but it seems like it s already too late. Many entrepreneurs are resentful, saying stuff like they have to close their business even though nobody even saw an infected person in the town, just on television.
Sad things is that this thing spirals out of control, it's not just the tourism and adjacent industries.
A client of mine, a soft-dev firm called me yesterday saying they have to close shop, and I was baffled, like how that happened, and basically they had one big client which cancelled all projects and there's impossible to find replacement right now. Soft-dev salaries being what they are, he cant afford to pay them in lack of projects.
Now good thing is software devs will find jobs probably even in this context, but lots of manufacturers and obviously the service industries are in a free-fall. Unemployment gonna ramp up and the purchase power and willingness of the population is decreasing rapidly.
It hurts this country especially badly, since the economic growth was mostly based on high consumption and commerce and not production and exports.
The currencies of the central-eastern European countries seem to be in a crisis as well, they hit a record low almost each day, compared to USD and EUR.
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EPT
