EPTHonestly, this is the first time I'm hearing of such revelation. Some countries have been more cautious in giving certain vaccines to certain groups of people (presumably because of risk of adverse reaction, including blood clot). So this notion goes against the grain of recent scientific consensus (if one can call it that).
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RKC
2848 Posts
Honestly, this is the first time I'm hearing of such revelation. Some countries have been more cautious in giving certain vaccines to certain groups of people (presumably because of risk of adverse reaction, including blood clot). So this notion goes against the grain of recent scientific consensus (if one can call it that). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18473 Posts
On August 21 2021 02:23 RKC wrote: Aside from AZ's own research, is there any other source finding that the same risk of blood clot is higher from COVID infection than vaccination? And that the risk is same for all age groups and medical conditions? Honestly, this is the first time I'm hearing of such revelation. Some countries have been more cautious in giving certain vaccines to certain groups of people (presumably because of risk of adverse reaction, including blood clot). So this notion goes against the grain of recent scientific consensus (if one can call it that). Blood clotting is a symptom of long covid. My father in law just had a blood test come back with an elevated count of coagulants, almost certainly due to Covid. He has a bunch of the other "weird" symptoms too: fatigue, loss of appetite, stuff like that, rather than fever or breathing problems. Of course, he's old, so doesn't fit your profile, but had me read up on the clotting thing. I don't think it's quite the same problem, but I'm not sure anyone really knows for sure. Just that clotting is indeed a possible symptom of Covid. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
On August 21 2021 00:49 maybenexttime wrote: Yes, this sort of blood clotting has a non-zero chance of killing you, but you have a much greater chance of developing it by contracting the virus than from the vaccine. I was actually wrong. Two Norwegian health care workers aged 37 and 42 died from complications from AZ. They had pollen allergies, but no other underlying conditions. To my knowledge, there are 0 covid-deaths in Norway for people with the same health condition/age. We stopped administering AZ for this reason. (Granted, both were women, so I guess my argument would be better if I were one, too.) Part of the equation that I think some of you are missing is that Norwegians have been really unlikely to contract covid, and that our adult population has almost 90% vaccination rate, at least the first dose. Norway's Dr fauci basically said pandemic over a couple months ago, and while we still see infections at a fairly constant rate, there are very few hospitalizations and almost no deaths. If you compare taking vaccine with getting covid, obviously the vaccine is better, but if you compare vaccine with a 3% chance of covid, it is a different equation. (Looking solely at immediate individual risk of death for healthy 30somethings, not factoring in other complications nor how vaccines stop spread, which from my perspective was my main motivation for getting vaccinated) And all this is AZ specific, Pfizer (which is what I got) and Moderna doesn't have the same issue. I'll also happily take a third dose next year if that ends up being recommended. I'd take AZ too if our health professionals recommended that, as I'm not afraid of something that happens less than 5/million - but I also am not at all afraid of dying from covid. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
On August 20 2021 19:02 JimmiC wrote: There are 0 people currently hospitalized for a vaccine reaction. Do you have a source for this or you just made it up? Heart inflammation risk is greater than previously thought for Moderna injection. https://www.cnet.com/health/us-officials-investigating-if-moderna-vaccine-linked-to-higher-risk-of-heart-inflammation-report-says/ Federal health officials are investigating any possible link between the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine and a slightly higher risk of myocarditis in younger adults, according to a report Thursday from the Washington Post. The US Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are reportedly analyzing Canadian data that could suggest the Moderna vaccine carries more risk of heart inflammation for males under the age of 30 than previously thought. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 21 2021 08:30 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Do you have a source for this or you just made it up? Heart inflammation risk is greater than previously thought for Moderna injection. https://www.cnet.com/health/us-officials-investigating-if-moderna-vaccine-linked-to-higher-risk-of-heart-inflammation-report-says/ Yes, that is what happens when your immune response causes inflammation. You know what else causes that same immune response? covid. If this same person got covid, their inflammation response would be much worse. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
Even the most basic, bullet point answers are totally acceptable. I would love to hear what your understanding is. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
On August 21 2021 09:30 JimmiC wrote: Sure, but does that even matter to you? Also you can do the math. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.wwltv.com/amp/article/news/local/as-delta-hits-hospitals-doctors-stress-number-of-patients-treated-for-vaccine-side-effects-is-zero/289-acbf4439-e6e4-4681-979a-19c031c85b2d You claimed there are zero people currently hospitalised with vaccine side effects, and your source is one hospital chain in Louisiana, not the entire USA? I thought we were talking about the entire USA? https://www.aappublications.org/news/2021/06/10/covid-vaccine-myocarditis-rates-061021 Zeroing in on the 475 people ages 30 and under reporting myocarditis or pericarditis to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), the most common symptoms were chest pain, elevated cardiac enzymes, ST or T wave changes, dyspnea and abnormal echocardiography/imaging. Among 285 cases with a known outcome, 270 were discharged, most to their homes. About 81% have made a full recovery, and the rest had ongoing symptoms or unknown status. Fifteen are still hospitalized, including three in intensive care. Back in June, 15 still hospitalised just from the heart issues related to the vaccine in the USA.This number will rise as more young people get the shots as they are at higher risk for this side effect. Can you clarify next time that you are talking about one hospital chain in one state and not the entire country? | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4456 Posts
On August 21 2021 09:33 Mohdoo wrote: Nettles, I'd love it if you could answer this: What is a vaccine? What does it try to do? How does it interact with the human body? Even the most basic, bullet point answers are totally acceptable. I would love to hear what your understanding is. Isn’t the issue here that people like you want to mandate this, people are required to get this for jobs and there are people who are ending up in hospital from getting the injections.The ones who end up in ICU may have bills in excess of $100,000, yet the vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability.People injured from the vaccine deserve compensation and their medical bills paid.Basic concept. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 21 2021 10:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Isn’t the issue here that people like you want to mandate this, people are required to get this for jobs and there are people who are ending up in hospital from getting the injections.The ones who end up in ICU may have bills in excess of $100,000, yet the vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability.People injured from the vaccine deserve compensation and their medical bills paid.Basic concept. Thank you, that’s all I needed. Carry on. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46537 Posts
On August 21 2021 10:50 Yuljan wrote: I am soon getting my second shot but the speed at which people are willing to offer up they rights and freedom is very disconcering. People should not be losing their jobs, livelihood and ability to go out because they don't want to get vaccinated. Yes, they should. If you don't want to contribute to society, then you shouldn't get to be a part of society. You can't have it both ways. If you have a remote job where you don't need to physically interact with anyone, and if you want to stay isolated, fine. But if you're unvaccinated and putting other people at risk, then you don't get to play with the rest of us. People's decisions have consequences, including the decision to be unvaccinated and literally enable the coronavirus. Especially with new data from Israel and other places that vaccination doesn't help that much apparently. 1984 seems more and more likely. That's not what the data shows at all. Edit: I'm glad to hear that you're getting your second shot soon  | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 21 2021 10:50 Yuljan wrote: I am soon getting my second shot but the speed at which people are willing to offer up they rights and freedom is very disconcering. People should not be losing their jobs, livelihood and ability to go out because they don't want to get vaccinated. Especially with new data from Israel and other places that vaccination doesn't help that much apparently. 1984 seems more and more likely. Why do you feel entitled to the benefits of a society? You were born with medicine, technology and many other things without an ounce of effort. You were born with a DEBT to society, not the right to give it the finger. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On August 21 2021 13:15 Mohdoo wrote: Why do you feel entitled to the benefits of a society? You were born with medicine, technology and many other things without an ounce of effort. You were born with a DEBT to society, not the right to give it the finger. No one is born with a debt. Stop being ridiculous. | ||
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