Coronavirus and You - Page 437

On August 21 2021 14:14 Magic Powers wrote:


No one is born with a debt. Stop being ridiculous.

On August 21 2021 14:31 RKC wrote:
Social contract is one thing, but this seems to be going to a whole new level of collectivism. What's next? We are all born in chains? We are all born as slaves?

On August 21 2021 10:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:

Isn’t the issue here that people like you want to mandate this, people are required to get this for jobs and there are people who are ending up in hospital from getting the injections.The ones who end up in ICU may have bills in excess of $100,000, yet the vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability.People injured from the vaccine deserve compensation and their medical bills paid.Basic concept.

On August 21 2021 10:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:

Isn’t the issue here that people like you want to mandate this, people are required to get this for jobs and there are people who are ending up in hospital from getting the injections.The ones who end up in ICU may have bills in excess of $100,000, yet the vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability.People injured from the vaccine deserve compensation and their medical bills paid.Basic concept.

On August 21 2021 16:12 RKC wrote:
So younger generations have more debt to bear as they enjoy more benefits created by previous generations (eg technology). Surely there has to be set off with the negatives left by the latter as well (eg war)? Is there some accounting method to measure the amount of debt or credit a person has in a particular society?

Seems suspiciously like a 'boomer' thinking. Nothing derogatory about that. Just an observation...

Mean intensive care unit cost and length of stay were 31,574 +/- 42,570 dollars and 14.4 days +/- 15.8 for patients requiring mechanical ventilation and 12,931 +/- 20,569 dollars and 8.5 days +/- 10.5 for those not requiring mechanical ventilation.

On August 21 2021 16:34 Lmui wrote:
Complications from vaccines and complications from covid after full vaccinations should be free for everyone. They're doing/have done everything they can reasonably do to prevent severe costs to society.


https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15942342/

ICU costs are really, really high, and there's been hundreds of thousands of people who've been through the ICU compared to the fraction in the hospital for any vaccine side-effect.

If insurance providers want to jack up premiums for not being vax'd similar to how smokers get charged more, that's fine too.

On August 21 2021 15:00 Mohdoo wrote:


So long as these people use modern science/technology and benefit from modern belief structures, they have a debt. They did absolutely nothing to earn the luxuries they live with. Some people were born 2000 years ago, some people were born today. You should strive to appreciate what is given to you, not reject any notion of accountability.



No. Work towards leaving the world in a better condition than you found it. So long as you do that, you have paid your debt. Screeching when someone asks you to not be a liability is the opposite of that.

On August 21 2021 19:38 emperorchampion wrote:


I expect that icu costs are high, just have to lol that their standard deviations are larger than the mean values. 10% of people getting 10k back and time traveling after the icu stay?

On August 21 2021 20:58 Acrofales wrote:


You do know how standard deviations work, right? The underlying statistics assume normality. Even if costs are almost normally distributed (which I honestly doubt, I'd expect them to be multimodal at least), they'd still be truncated at 0 and thus show some form of skew, and the assumption of normality doesn't hold. But if the distribution of costs is actually multimodal then neither the mean nor the standard error give particularly useful information at all (other than an indication that your statistical summary is useless). Seeing as they don't separate costs by duration, yet do say the first few days are the most expensive, you could expect at least some heavy skew in the distribution, even if the duration in ICU is fairly close to normally distributed (which also doesn't appear to be the case).

On August 21 2021 19:22 Magic Powers wrote:


Why aren't you in Africa saving little children? You know, for the sake of "making the world better" as per your words?

On August 21 2021 21:48 JimmiC wrote:





If it only impacts them sure. But in a public healthcare system and collective society when it impacts others then you have to work together. Right now in many US states they are stopping doing procedures because they have no space, they also can't accept more patients because they are overflowing, that is not just covid but car accident and so on. The other thing is the way infections and %'s work if you can get enough with a certain level protection everyone is safe, if not almost no one. Third not everyone can get it, so even those who are scared need to to protect those who can not (and in this case those who did as well). Fourth, as long we all pay we all should get a say.


This one has been gone over numerous times. The math and risks are clear, there is nothing logical or sensible about the decision to not get vaccinated. It is not remotely close especially since delta.




This is silly and continues to be silly. No one was fallen into dictatorship when a health and safety rule was implemented. When people had to wear seatbelts, when restaurants had to keep the meat in coolers, when air bags were forced in cars and the million others. People are mostly fine with all the rules that exist but then change comes and a subset of society groans and gets all worked up like its the only one or new. Just look at masks, you can wear what you want? Try heading to a pool without swim trunks. Hell try to go to most restaurants without a shirt or shoes.

Dictatorships show up from the side you are arguing. They get a bunch of people worked up about the rules of the government and claim the people no longer have a voice. They claim the government is being controlled by a shadowy group (jews, capitalists, deep state, whatever), they then have their revolution and take over. Somehow even with all this new found power they need even more to stamp out the shadowy group. They never succeed, claim everything bad is the shadowy groups fault and never give their own power up because "they are the only ones who can fight said shadowy group".


As many a doctor has said you are at more risk driving to your vaccination appointment than you are to get vaccinated, that is just numbers and fact. And if you are not willing to take the infinitesimal risk of vaccination but are willing to take much other larger risks such as driving then it is not a rational decision not to get it. (I realize you have, I'm saying others who do not).

Also, businesses choosing to have their staff or customers mandatorily be vaccinated is not new, they have been making rules to make their other staff and customers safe forever. If you have a construction job you can not choose to wear or not wear steel toes boots or a hard hat and 10,000 other examples. The reasons are not evil they are pragmatic. It is freaking expensive to deal with sick and long term sick/injured staff, both from a group health insurance perspective and from a productivity perspective. Then you also get a lot less customers if they don't perceive safety, so saying "only vaccinated allowed" gets you way more customers because the vaccinated/pro vaccine make up a huge part of the population. And while there is some uninformed fear based people who are scared of vaccinated people they make up a extremely tiny % of the population, and those who are either scared of catching covid, or are pissed at the unvaccinated for all the expense they are adding to society and the future lockdown situations they will create are the majority.