Coronavirus and You - Page 430

On August 19 2021 00:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


Except those articles literally have links to official statements and publications from health experts. Getting news from reputable sources that are supported by the data is not equivalent to getting news from con-men and conspiracy theorists who simply don't have the science and medicine on their side. We don't just look at both and say "Meh, they're both equally reliable and/or the viewers on both sides are equally reasonable, because neither the pro-vax news anchor nor the anti-vax news anchor are the actual medical researchers." That's absurd, and it dismisses the importance of actually having the evidence and facts on your side.

On August 19 2021 04:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I'm not too fond of the rational/irrational angle, as I generally believe everyone acts in accordance with their own rationality. The issue how I see it is more a question of people inhabiting different information universes, and, indeed, that some people end up being consistently wrong because they, for whatever reason, (not necessarily related to intelligence) stumbled into a wrong information universe. These different universes aren't necessarily different in how rationally they interpret facts, they rather differ in what facts form the foundation of their greater beliefs.

Then, I believe the one I myself inhabit is significantly more likely to be true, because it more consistently leans on a consensus of what experts in x field believe. But I (generally) don't think others who consistently believe other things are stupid or irrational. I think they are ignorant and wrong.

On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate.

On August 19 2021 20:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


I think this is a really interesting take, and I'm wondering about the falsifiability of it, and whether or not it excuses behavior and actions that shouldn't be excused.

If everyone has "their own rationality", does that mean that it's impossible to be irrational? After all, if you think that I'm being irrational, can't I just assert that my personal rationality permits whatever you're contesting? Doesn't there need to be a more objective arbiter of what's rational*?

I could absolutely see some weird, nonsensical, post-truth hot-take that no one is ever truly incorrect about anything; they simply inhabit a "different information universe". Thoughts on that?

In response to "These different universes aren't necessarily different in how rationally they interpret facts, they rather differ in what facts form the foundation of their greater beliefs" - I actually see these two things as the same thing. If you and I have the same 10 facts in front of us, and I care more about the first 5 while you care more about the last 5, you and I are actually both choosing how we interpret all 10 facts. By willfully ignoring some facts and focusing on others, we're each interpreting the entire collection. Cherry-picking certain facts may or may not be rational* to do (I suppose this depends on how we're defining "rational"*), but I think that it's basically a prerequisite in order to choose which ones form the foundation of our greater beliefs, and I don't think using every subset of facts is equally rational*. Thoughts?

*I feel like "rational" can often be synonymous with logically consistent, reasonable, true, sound, or valid, though these are not all the same thing, and this can lead to a bunch of semantics issues.

On August 19 2021 20:21 farvacola wrote:

I take it to be the opposite; there's no such thing as true rationality, only varying shades of irrationality dressed up in reasoning. However, that doesn't mean there's no way to judge particular decisions as more or less correct, only that the ideals of thought are just that, ideals that serve as asymptotic signposts that folks sometimes draw nearer to and sometimes retreat from. The lack of an essential character to big ticket items like truth, good, and bad doesn't disrupt the basis for judgments, it only suggests that communications and persuasive endeavors should change their language around a bit to better get to the heart of the problems with notions like bothsidesism and the fallacy of the Golden Mean.

Relative to vaccine/Covid denialism, acknowledging that true rationality really isn't at issue dovetails nicely with the role of trust in expertise and how that trust either does or doesn't take shape in individuals. In the US, for example, for profit healthcare and our awful medical scheme in general do a lot of harm to the baseline mechanisms that develop medical trust in individuals, which isn't an excuse for denialists' wholesale discarding of commonly accepted medical advice so much as an explanation for why that "trending towards irrationality" quality exists as it does here.

On August 19 2021 20:36 Amumoman wrote:

Not merely a recommendation; thats whats so beautiful. Most people have ignored the senseless recommendations all along but now most people ignore the most moronic of mandates and enforcement (of this mandate) seems largely abandonned/severely downprioritezed.

As for possible consequences, they’re the same as any other “crime” ie execution for refusal to comply and adhere and denigrate your soul by worshipping the State (assuming you start defending yourself when the police attemps to do violence unto you)

On August 19 2021 20:36 Amumoman wrote:

Not merely a recommendation; thats whats so beautiful. Most people have ignored the senseless recommendations all along but now most people ignore the most moronic of mandates and enforcement (of this mandate) seems largely abandonned/severely downprioritezed.

As for possible consequences, they’re the same as any other “crime” ie execution for refusal to comply and adhere and denigrate your soul by worshipping the State (assuming you start defending yourself when the police attemps to do violence unto you)

On August 19 2021 20:50 Amumoman wrote:

I didnt mean to imply all recommendations by those - who so hubristically unironiccaly refer to themselves as the authorities - have been senseless; but a lot of recommendations have been senseless/incoherent for sure. What I find disturbing and repugnant though is the encouragement of the inappropriate life-attitude of fear and unquestioning submission to ‘authorities’.

On August 19 2021 20:50 Amumoman wrote:

I didnt mean to imply all recommendations by those - who so hubristically unironiccaly refer to themselves as the authorities - have been senseless; but a lot of recommendations have been senseless/incoherent for sure. What I find disturbing and repugnant though is the encouragement of the inappropriate life-attitude of fear and unquestioning submission to ‘authorities’.

On August 19 2021 18:44 Amumoman wrote:
Took the metrotrain for the first time in a long time here in Denmark. There was still a mask mandate in place but 9/10 didnt wear one. Warms my heart to see the hysteria on the retreate.

On August 19 2021 20:52 Amumoman wrote:

Didnt say it were; just as I didnt say it weren’t

On August 19 2021 21:14 Amumoman wrote:

Oh boy thats a long list but let me mention what I find most egregious and appalling.

the recommendation that healthy people worry about getting sick and getting other healthy people sick. Nothing wrong with soberly encouraging people whose health is significantly compromised (obesity or what have you) to be be cautious and encouraging all to be cautious within reason not to infect them.
But this fear-mongering and encouragement of hysteria and neurosis has led to people having an insanely warped sense of how at risk evidence suggests they are which in turn has led to a lot of people (particularly those prone to anxiousness) refraning from activities that promote human thriving: seeing friends/family, going to gym etc etc).
To give you a sense of how absurd this got (and if you look at polls from around the western world this anecdote does not seem to be an outlier), I asked my two younger siblings some time ago how many people they thought had died from covid in denmark below the age of 60; they guessed 100 and 150 - at the time i asked the actual number was 3 of all whom confirmed to have compromised health

Edit: spelling