EPTChina, US and the environment. - Page 10
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ZerOCoolSC2
6154 Posts
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pmh
885 Posts
There has been discussion about co2 per gdp/capita vs co2/capita. The usa is more efficient with co2 when it comes to producing gdp/capita then china which then could be used as an argument to claim that china is worse since it does create less wealth/capita with the co2 they use. But imo this is a very unfair way to look at it,china is still under development and should not be compared to fully developed countrys which are more efficient (for now). Also,if there would be a co2 budget for every citizen in the world then who cares how china is using that budget, As long as they are below the budget they can spend it however they like. Its their loss and their decision,not ours. And If there was a co2 budget/capita (which I think would be the most fair way to approach it) then china sits way lower then usa. That they do create less wealth with their budget is kinda irrelevant,unless the usa would open up their borders and let in everyone who would want to so that everyone could benefit from their more efficient use of co2. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada2399 Posts
On November 22 2019 00:52 pmh wrote: Thx for response @jimmy. There has been discussion about co2 per gdp/capita vs co2/capita. The usa is more efficient with co2 when it comes to producing gdp/capita then china which then could be used as an argument to claim that china is worse since it does create less wealth/capita with the co2 they use. But imo this is a very unfair way to look at it,china is still under development and should not be compared to fully developed countrys which are more efficient (for now). Also,if there would be a co2 budget for every citizen in the world then who cares how china is using that budget, As long as they are below the budget they can spend it however they like. Its their loss and their decision,not ours. And If there was a co2 budget/capita (which I think would be the most fair way to approach it) then china sits way lower then usa. That they do create less wealth with their budget is kinda irrelevant,unless the usa would open up their borders and let in everyone who would want to so that everyone could benefit from their more efficient use of co2. I don't disagree with what you say here. My main point is that both countries are bad who is worse is really irrelevant. If you rank USA is the worst or China as the worst I could see arguments for both. Way back when this started it was that China was actually really good and USA was the worst of the worst by far, and that was what I had a problem with. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada2399 Posts
On November 21 2019 06:32 Erasme wrote: Frances co2 emissions per capita is at 4.57metric tons as of 2014, probably went down a bit. The main reason for it is the nuclear energy. Germany is at 8.89 and rising because they're busy opening 2 coal plants for each nuclear plant they close. The invention already exists. Its called nuclear energy. Good news that Merkel pledged Germany to be coal free with in the decade, finaland as well. https://globalnews.ca/news/5939950/un-climate-summit-earth-carbon-neutral-2050/ | ||
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disformation
Germany8241 Posts
On November 23 2019 00:37 JimmiC wrote: Good news that Merkel pledged Germany to be coal free with in the decade, finaland as well. https://globalnews.ca/news/5939950/un-climate-summit-earth-carbon-neutral-2050/ good that Germany is starting to use a new coal-fired power plant next year then. relevant source: https://www.reuters.com/article/uniper-coal-plant/unipers-datteln-4-coal-plant-allowed-to-enter-service-sources-idUSL8N27F4VC | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas5987 Posts
On November 23 2019 00:37 JimmiC wrote: Good news that Merkel pledged Germany to be coal free with in the decade, finaland as well. https://globalnews.ca/news/5939950/un-climate-summit-earth-carbon-neutral-2050/ Rofl thinking you can hold merkel to any promises about energy xd Why are they still opening new plants then ? France has actually pledged to close every single coal plants by 2022. And its only realisable thanks to nuclear power. Germany has no way of being independant from coal because they have no reliable back up plans. Once again i'd like to remind everyone that Germany has been, for the last 30years, literally doubling the emission of co2 per capita than France. can europe stop following goddamn germany its not a model for anything except failure | ||
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JimmiC
Canada2399 Posts
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Yurie
2748 Posts
On November 23 2019 02:25 JimmiC wrote: I don't know anything about German Politics but is it not stupid to make these pledges if it is not obtainable or is it common to make them and not follow through? Do people just forget or is it common practice to over promise and not deliver at all? I don't know anything about German politics either but I would assume it is similar to most in that doing a good try is enough to get a pass. Would get called out by opponents if totally unrealistic. I don't think it reaches US level of outright lying being accepted but can't be sure. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada2399 Posts
The talk about how good we have become at modeling global warming and how the paris goals would already be unobtainable if we had not stopped. https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/when-we-saved-the-ozone-layer-we-saved-ourselves-from-even-worse-climate-change-1.5391408 While this is good news it is sad that well the world pulled together then we can't pull together now for an even greater challenge. I wonder how much the mass distrust in science that exists now is at fault for this? It was also and easier change in that it didn't impact everyone's every day life as much. There is an article but if you want to do the listen it is under 8 mins long and link is at the top of the article. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany79 Posts
Biomass got destroyed in 2012, wind got destroyed in 2018 and PV will likely be capped next year. (arbitrary numbers in the first line by me and capitalisation by Edge browser) | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas5987 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland6882 Posts
Its totally incapable to get any large scale project done, be it an Airport, a Trainstation, their army or some friggin traintracks thru mostly easy terrain. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany3070 Posts
On December 19 2019 18:47 Velr wrote: Germany also failed their part of a deal that would massively increase the transport of goods by rail instead of on the street. Friggin Italy Held up their side of the deal. Italy and Switzerland are now actually going for an alternate route thru France. Its totally incapable to get any large scale project done, be it an Airport, a Trainstation, their army or some friggin traintracks thru mostly easy terrain. True that. It's Deutsche Bahn. What did you expect? It combines everything that Germany is not. It is NEVER in time. Half the shit isn't working (to have a working AC in a train in summer is a miracle). Sometimes trains are more crowded than in China or India simply because of some miscalculation. To the building projects like S21 and Berlin airport: There is just to much politics involved and it is all done public. If it was done by a private contractor we wouldn't have any of the problems, because 1. the cost would have been calculated correctly and not some politic number and 2. all contractors could have been chosen by quality and not who is the cheapeast, which often enough means you have to do some work twice cause it wasn't done right | ||
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Artisreal
Germany79 Posts
you forgot to mention the toll System for the Autobahn as a massive (political) failure and waste of public Money (-: | ||
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Velr
Switzerland6882 Posts
What was the last succsesfull large scale project Germany actually got done (ideally whiteout of tons of drama and cost explosions around it)? | ||
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Harris1st
Germany3070 Posts
On December 19 2019 20:24 Velr wrote: What about calling the non existant Airport in Berlin, the non existant and unneeded Train station in Stuttgard, the horrible state of your Military and the non existant railroads failures of the German state is "hyperbolic"? I'm not sure about the airport, but I wouldn't call the train station in Stuttgart unneeded. It was completely outdated and not fullfilling it's purpose anymore. And it was supposed to be the symbol of a new era of train travelling. Now it is a symbol of the clusterfk that is the Bahn, politics, inland travel and waste of tax money. On December 19 2019 20:24 Velr wrote: What was the last succsesfull large scale project Germany actually got done Filharmonie in Hamburg I guess | ||
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Artisreal
Germany79 Posts
The Train Station in Stuttgart is of the utmost necessity, though mistakes during the planning Phase more or less render it unable to cope with forseeable increase in demand (iirc). at the Moment there is no Long distance Train connecting the Airport, which is insane and stupid. That should've been rectified by the S21 Project. As a Berliner I'll reseve my praise for the aiport cause I have None. I guess the only mammoth Projects seeing relatively timely finishes are Pipelines? Apart from that the switch from low calorific to high calorific natural gas grids is going rather smoothly at the Moment. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland6882 Posts
As for Stuttgard, the issue is that you build a Trainstation that even with the knowledge we have now, is not fit for the job. The issues during planning, building and so, which are many, are just the cherry on top. This project would be a failure even if it had the smoothest construction phase you can imagine. I don't know if building a new concert hall counts as "big Project". But yeah, aside from the miracoulous price increase and all these issues, it actually turned out pretty nice. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland3549 Posts
On December 19 2019 21:26 Harris1st wrote: I'm not sure about the airport, but I wouldn't call the train station in Stuttgart unneeded. It was completely outdated and not fullfilling it's purpose anymore. And it was supposed to be the symbol of a new era of train travelling. Now it is a symbol of the clusterfk that is the Bahn, politics, inland travel and waste of tax money. Filharmonie in Hamburg I guess The one that one of residents showed to me as example of "colossal waste of money" ??? Many germans do not consider that project a success. Estimated cost: 76mln final 866 mln. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany3070 Posts
On December 20 2019 01:33 Silvanel wrote: The one that one of residents showed to me as example of "colossal waste of money" ??? Many germans do not consider that project a success. Estimated cost: 76mln final 866 mln. I think you misunderstood what I wrote  | ||
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