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China, US and the environment - Page 12

Forum Index > General Forum
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JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 24 2020 18:44 GMT
#221
--- Nuked ---
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
January 24 2020 18:50 GMT
#222
its an educational measure.
If people wouldn't throw their waste anywhere they like, there'd be no need for a plastic bag ban.
But unfortunately they end up everywhere, ocean, landscape, street, thus we need to help people in that way to behave correctly.
passive quaranstream fan
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-24 19:05:28
January 24 2020 18:57 GMT
#223
On January 25 2020 03:44 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 25 2020 03:18 GoTuNk! wrote:
On January 25 2020 00:42 JimmiC wrote:
While 8 states have banned single use plastic bags, many other states have made it impossible for municipalities to ban bags.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/20/plastic-bags-have-lobbyists-winning-100587?utm_source=pocket-newtab


My country banned plastic bags and I can't say it's an improvement.
People used their plastic shopping bags to wrap house trash and then drop it to the local container.
Now people buy this "rehusable" plastic bags for shopping; they are a lot more resource intensive to produce, you need to use them close to 100 times to reach the same footprint as the old disposable bags and most bags never see that use. Paper bags suck and are not rehusable more than a few times before they get holes.

Moreover, on poor areas mostly, now that plastic bags are not free and easily available, littering has increased a lot.

It is a double edged sword, I'm in the midst of trying to draw up policy around it right now. To me I think a charge is what works best and limiting the thinness of the bags. Because as you say as long as they are not ripped they can provide a second and even 3rd use. There is also many reasons that Paper bags for example are as bad or worse than plastic.

With charging for bags (even the nominal 5 cents) can show up to a 90% reduction, which I think shows both it is effective, and there was way to many plastic given out. Many stores are also donating that charge to green charities which is kind of a win win.

All these single use items need to be carefully thought about because there was reasons for bringing them in when they were first introduced.

Blanket bans and blanket protections are not going to help. If you are going to go the Ban route you should specify what type of reusable bags are allowed because as you mention some of them take more uses than they realistically can preform for to become a carbon positive over the single use.

A big issue with the single use is people put them in their "blue bins" and while the material when source separated is recyclable, when they are sent to MRF's (material recovery Facilities) they just gum up the machines, shred into tiny pieces and contaminate other commodities. There is a lot of talk in the industry of changing the message from "Don't put them into the blue bins they are not recyclable" to "They are recyclable, but damage MRF's please take them to public drop-offs or retail sponsored recyclable programs"

The recycling industry for a long time just wanted to get as much possible and didn't care about the quality of the materials because they thought if it was complicated people just wouldn't do it. What they are realizing is this created a lot of mixed messaging, missinformation and no unity between different areas. The industry and associations are working hard to be better.


I guess this is a long way of saying, blanket rules to not allow municipalities to regulate ban's is a over reaction to an over reaction. Plastic bags can be really good, they have a low carbon foot print, they can keep food waste down because they are strong and immune to weather (lots of problems with paper ripping in rain and high humidity). But there was a excessive amount given out at a low quality that did not allow for reuse. They also are super light (which is good for logistics) which means they can blow far and end up in waterways. So regulate the use, the thickness and the cost. Don't flat out ban and also don't ban regulation.

Interestingly enough the Retail Council of Canada(RCC) supports mandatory charges and thicknesses. Once they are "forced" to charge it levels out the playing field and they can gain marketing advantages by promoting green initiatives with a level playing field. No regulation lead to a race to the bottom in quality and giving out way to many. What the RCC hates is every city or province having different rules. Because then just trying to comply becomes a huge burden. They have told us they prefer the charge, but would settle for any rule that was uniform across the country.



If you could ask for a few at the cashier, instead of having them pushing them on you, it would go a long measure. I store food on the bridge regularly and after a few years I still miss those damn readily available bags. I would use them for shopping, then for my food, and then for trash.

I think it's important to point out that trash is more of a distribution than production issue. I read somewhere a small hole (relatively) in the dessert could hold all human trash for the next few hundred years; problem is garbage going other places mostly.

JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 24 2020 19:11 GMT
#224
--- Nuked ---
redlightdistrict
Profile Joined October 2018
382 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-25 18:17:25
January 25 2020 18:13 GMT
#225
When will environmentalists go after gas powered leaf blowers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_blower#Environmental_and_occupational_impact

Relative to their size, leaf-blowers are among the most polluting machines ever invented. 1/3 of their fuel is released into the air unburned, as an aerosol; and the amount of pollutants released from running one for 30 minutes is equivalent to that of an F-150 driving from Texas to Alaska.


Leafblowers blow disintegrated brake dust, vulcanized rubber, and animal feces back into the air, but nobody really seems to care.

Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
January 25 2020 18:18 GMT
#226
On January 26 2020 03:13 redlightdistrict wrote:
When will environmentalists go after gas powered leaf blowers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_blower#Environmental_and_occupational_impact

Show nested quote +
Relative to their size, leaf-blowers are among the most polluting machines ever invented. 1/3 of their fuel is released into the air unburned, as an aerosol; and the amount of pollutants released from running one for 30 minutes is equivalent to that of an F-150 driving from Texas to Alaska.


Leafblowers blow disintegrated brake dust, vulcanized rubber, and animal feces back into the air, but nobody really seems to care

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peKmSnj7BZE

Soooo, what do you suggest there is to be done in addition to what's already happening.
AFAIK there's a lot of blowback against these machines already.
passive quaranstream fan
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
January 25 2020 18:35 GMT
#227
On January 26 2020 03:18 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2020 03:13 redlightdistrict wrote:
When will environmentalists go after gas powered leaf blowers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_blower#Environmental_and_occupational_impact

Relative to their size, leaf-blowers are among the most polluting machines ever invented. 1/3 of their fuel is released into the air unburned, as an aerosol; and the amount of pollutants released from running one for 30 minutes is equivalent to that of an F-150 driving from Texas to Alaska.


Leafblowers blow disintegrated brake dust, vulcanized rubber, and animal feces back into the air, but nobody really seems to care

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peKmSnj7BZE

Soooo, what do you suggest there is to be done in addition to what's already happening.
AFAIK there's a lot of blowback against these machines already.


It's also incredibly lazy, I mean it's one thing if you're 75 years old, but adults using them to clean their parking or their lawn when it's not even faster than taking a broom or a rake is sad to see.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6231 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-25 22:33:17
January 25 2020 22:11 GMT
#228
I love that even when he posts something I agree with, he still includes a youtube video so questionable I end up sceptical of my own stance.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
January 25 2020 22:44 GMT
#229
--- Nuked ---
redlightdistrict
Profile Joined October 2018
382 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-26 03:08:57
January 26 2020 03:06 GMT
#230
On January 26 2020 03:18 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 26 2020 03:13 redlightdistrict wrote:
When will environmentalists go after gas powered leaf blowers?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaf_blower#Environmental_and_occupational_impact

Relative to their size, leaf-blowers are among the most polluting machines ever invented. 1/3 of their fuel is released into the air unburned, as an aerosol; and the amount of pollutants released from running one for 30 minutes is equivalent to that of an F-150 driving from Texas to Alaska.


Leafblowers blow disintegrated brake dust, vulcanized rubber, and animal feces back into the air, but nobody really seems to care

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peKmSnj7BZE

Soooo, what do you suggest there is to be done in addition to what's already happening.
AFAIK there's a lot of blowback against these machines already.


"blowback" I see what u did there.

They could follow the lead of Hawaii by banning gas powered blowers outright, fining people stiffly for breaking the sound level ordinance, or the government could offer financial incentives to landscaping companies to switch from gas to electric powered blowers like they did with Tesla's electric car rebates. Company's will change when they are financially motivated to do so or the government requires it of them.
https://igin.com/print-article-1622-print.html
The state of Hawaii recently passed a law which bans all gasoline-powered leaf blowers and restricts electric leaf blower use in residential areas to between the hours of 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. Monday through Saturday and 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Sundays and holidays.

In addition to the restrictions, the new regulations also state that noise levels generated by the leaf blowers cannot exceed 70 decibels beyond boundaries of the property being cleaned. Leaf blowing operations are also prohibited from blowing debris onto adjacent property.

The law doesn’t apply to other power equipment, such as string trimmers and lawnmowers. Violators will be fined $50 for first violation and up to $500 for repeat violations.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
January 29 2020 13:03 GMT
#231
I wish countries were as proactive in implementing climate change mitigation strategies as they are with virus containment.
passive quaranstream fan
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
February 03 2020 04:32 GMT
#232
On January 29 2020 22:03 Artisreal wrote:
I wish countries were as proactive in implementing climate change mitigation strategies as they are with virus containment.


I don't.

It seems like a massive waste of resources, which could be used for better things, to me.
TL+ Member
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
February 03 2020 06:08 GMT
#233
What are these some of the pressing matters that are to be addressed (and aren't sufficiently already) according to your point of view?
passive quaranstream fan
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
March 31 2020 15:43 GMT
#234
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
May 12 2020 16:37 GMT
#235
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 25 2020 00:30 GMT
#236
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
June 30 2020 02:03 GMT
#237
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
July 03 2020 01:54 GMT
#238
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-08-21 15:48:12
July 15 2020 23:53 GMT
#239
--- Nuked ---
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
April 07 2021 14:07 GMT
#240
--- Nuked ---
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