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China, US and the environment

Forum Index > General Forum
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1 2 3 4 5 11 12 13 Next All
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-25 02:18:19
August 24 2019 15:52 GMT
#1
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JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 24 2019 16:07 GMT
#2
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xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-24 16:09:43
August 24 2019 16:08 GMT
#3
even if ..., you'd still need to make it worth it else you two should rather just PM yourselves into madness.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-24 16:47:47
August 24 2019 16:36 GMT
#4
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saocyn
Profile Joined July 2011
United States937 Posts
August 24 2019 18:25 GMT
#5
Jimmi you raise a fair point in the first paragraph. "I’m very confused to why you think that saying China is terrible makes the west great." And for whatever reason, this illogical sentiment has to be repeatedly spoken. I've started question the motives of others why they feel inclined to tell me china is bad, instead of telling me solutions to what we're facing now.

and I'm just going to call it for what it is, racism. The same people who spoke ill of the Chinese, Chinese Americans / Asians, are the same ones who are currently using the political climate to facilitate their hate. they just now have a political channel to funnel their racism. The whole I have to put down Asians, to prop myself up reeks of inferiority complex. You know these sentiments are true if you even remotely watch TI, and get a general consensus to what people type in twitch chat.

"Fuck china, free hong kong, ching chong, china numba 1" along with "biased crowd" when all western crowds are completely biased towards the home team in every TI. all these sentiments are well, racial sentiments that have only been magnified due to the current political climate, but more importantly these were the same sentiments ushered far before it became a PC issue.

I find it odd such focus is on the ills of china and not the betterment of america. let's call it out for what it is, racism.
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-24 19:45:17
August 24 2019 19:39 GMT
#6
On August 25 2019 01:07 JimmiC wrote:
You are again way off the rails my friend. I have explained to you the policies that I believe will help.


The issue with China is they are currently the worst


Actually they are leaders when it comes to investing in renewable energies. It's a real issue for them, their citizens (comrades?) are about to riot because of it.

The US are the worst, their President even said it was a "Chinese hoax" while they are the biggest polluters, only behind the richest oil nations which do whatthefuckeries in the desert with their insane wealth. But anyway, leading countries misbehaving on this matter should never be an excuse for other countries to not make the efforts required. We're speaking about thousands of billions of people yet to be born.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-24 19:59:53
August 24 2019 19:58 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
August 24 2019 21:09 GMT
#8
You're vastly overestimating China's wealth. They are numerous and having a few hundred millions of them reaching the middle class status does not mean they've solved their poverty issues. You have to understand that people who don't have their basic needs satisfied won't care a lot about global warming

Besides
My main point is actually that there is a lot to be done in all countries, who is worst does not even matter.


The issue with China is they are currently the worst


The Chinese government is terrifying, Chinese citizens understand it more than anyone. But it's common sense that they should put their priority elsewhere. We should be happy they're putting so much efforts on environmental issues, they don't have nearly as much wealth as us. On the other hand the richest countries in the world barely try.

I can only agree with saocyn.

.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 24 2019 21:46 GMT
#9
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Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7289 Posts
August 25 2019 01:16 GMT
#10
Why not just call this the Environmental Politics Thread or something
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 25 2019 01:24 GMT
#11
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BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
August 25 2019 01:35 GMT
#12
From what I understand America is full of people like me who buy cars with V8 engines, leave the computer on 24/7, and eat meat at least 3x a day
TL+ Member
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7289 Posts
August 25 2019 02:08 GMT
#13
An environmental politics thread is probably a good idea in the same way the gun thread is a good idea.

I have yet to read through Bernie's Green New Deal but I'm looking forward to it. From the synopsis I've seen around it looks good, especially moving to renewable transport, I think thatll be a tough sell to all the Americans who own a car that isn't electric but tbh if I could sell my car to the government for money towards an electric car that'd be something I'd be excited to do.

Even just managing to implement robust public transit with renewables would be a good step to me. God knows the US needs better public transit.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 25 2019 02:51 GMT
#14
--- Nuked ---
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23167 Posts
August 25 2019 02:58 GMT
#15
On August 25 2019 10:35 BerserkSword wrote:
From what I understand America is full of people like me who buy cars with V8 engines, leave the computer on 24/7, and eat meat at least 3x a day


Yeah which is part of the heart of the issue. There isn't a way to make western life as we know it sustainable and things that help around the margins like consumer choice and reusables/waste reduction make us feel better and slow/reduce the impending catastrophe slightly but they miss the issue at the center which is the dominant economic system and our way of life.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1907 Posts
August 25 2019 18:38 GMT
#16
It's super unfair of the "western" world to now tell china to stop polluting the environment. Sure, China is the biggest polluter with heavy industry and energy production, but we are buying the products the make for cheap so that we can have more efficient industries. The only way for change is going to be limiting our own consumerism by drastically increasing prizes for the worst offenders like meat, cars, electicity. Only if it hurts our bank accounts to eat meat every day, we will stop doing it. And then, when the western world drastically reduces consumerism, we can ask countries like China to do their part as well.

The problem is just that there is absolutely no political will for this discussion, as politicians don't want to suicide their career for necessary changes that can only be started by taking away the toys of the public. And the public will not start freely giving away their toys if they are not forced. And then there is the issue with social equality becoming worse if we just make the toys more expensive.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
August 26 2019 15:48 GMT
#17
On August 26 2019 03:38 Broetchenholer wrote:
It's super unfair of the "western" world to now tell china to stop polluting the environment. Sure, China is the biggest polluter with heavy industry and energy production, but we are buying the products the make for cheap so that we can have more efficient industries. The only way for change is going to be limiting our own consumerism by drastically increasing prizes for the worst offenders like meat, cars, electicity. Only if it hurts our bank accounts to eat meat every day, we will stop doing it. And then, when the western world drastically reduces consumerism, we can ask countries like China to do their part as well.

The problem is just that there is absolutely no political will for this discussion, as politicians don't want to suicide their career for necessary changes that can only be started by taking away the toys of the public. And the public will not start freely giving away their toys if they are not forced. And then there is the issue with social equality becoming worse if we just make the toys more expensive.

I would disagree with you to the extent that I think it is fair to pressure China to clean up their act, provided that we are holding up our end of the bargain as well.

I hear theres an upcoming presidential candidate who has some ideas

Also JimmiC good thread with a lot to talk about, but does the OP really need to be a snippet of your latest back and forth with GH?
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 26 2019 17:37 GMT
#18
--- Nuked ---
Broetchenholer
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1907 Posts
August 26 2019 20:56 GMT
#19
On August 27 2019 00:48 Aveng3r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2019 03:38 Broetchenholer wrote:
It's super unfair of the "western" world to now tell china to stop polluting the environment. Sure, China is the biggest polluter with heavy industry and energy production, but we are buying the products the make for cheap so that we can have more efficient industries. The only way for change is going to be limiting our own consumerism by drastically increasing prizes for the worst offenders like meat, cars, electicity. Only if it hurts our bank accounts to eat meat every day, we will stop doing it. And then, when the western world drastically reduces consumerism, we can ask countries like China to do their part as well.

The problem is just that there is absolutely no political will for this discussion, as politicians don't want to suicide their career for necessary changes that can only be started by taking away the toys of the public. And the public will not start freely giving away their toys if they are not forced. And then there is the issue with social equality becoming worse if we just make the toys more expensive.

I would disagree with you to the extent that I think it is fair to pressure China to clean up their act, provided that we are holding up our end of the bargain as well.

I hear theres an upcoming presidential candidate who has some ideas

Also JimmiC good thread with a lot to talk about, but does the OP really need to be a snippet of your latest back and forth with GH?


Well, it can be expected that everybody does as much as is possible for their society and economy. But it's very unfair to go to the countries trying their best t ocatch up to our standard of living and just say that now that we fucked it up and had our 60 years of paradise, they are not allowed in. 1 billion chinese people want computers? Not gonna happen, they are not 100% emission free yet so they are not allowed to increase their energy consumption per capita. Of course it is reasonable to assume that if we are pulling our weight and help the less developed countries to do the same that they will try their best to reach a richer society in a less polluting way.
But that requires our effort. We need to invest massively in development projects all over the world to make the transition feasible for countries who can not prioritize climate policies over improving living conditions. And as we are not even able to say that we need to consume less in political discourse without being laughed out of the room, there is no reason to ever talk about any other countries then our own.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 26 2019 21:36 GMT
#20
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