|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On December 02 2018 12:33 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 10:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 02 2018 10:04 Doodsmack wrote:On December 02 2018 08:08 Nouar wrote:So, a less talked about election issue from the midterms : in North Carolina, according to a number of affidavits, several from elderly black voters, a member of the republican campaign coordinated an effort to go door-to-door in a democrat-leaning county, posing as election official, and asking to hand over absentee ballots, even if blank. Then, he would have filled in or discarded them. In addition, it seems there is a unusually large number of absentee ballots in that county, with over 96% of them going to the republican candidate, while the usual win margin is around 65% from what I read previously (can't remember where). The republican is leading by around 900 votes, but the board is refusing to certify the result. For all the republicans crying about voter fraud, now this one seems to have some basis. And it's not coming from who they would love it to :-D WaPo Source Funnily enough, voter fraud only became a concern for Republicans once they took power at the state level during the Obama years. Interesting isn't it? This is election fraud. A republican systematically went around to change the result of the election in their favor. This isn't voters cheating the system and nothing Republicans have been suggesting like voter ID would have fixed this or maybe that's the point. The quote is a bit off, but the sentiment is dead on. Show nested quote +
“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stalin-vote-count-quote/Voter fraud has never changed a damn thing a may only arguably exist beyond double digits over the last several decades. But election fraud, oh yeah, that one is real. And in NC it really happened and flipped the result. Hell, Paul Ryan and Trump were calling for ending counting of the votes on election night because they were head. The nominal heads of the Republican party are opposed to counting every vote if they think they are losing. But I am sure our resident Republicans will pretend they don't share the views of the people they voted for and will continue to vote for. Show nested quote +
We were only down 26 seats the night of the election and three weeks later, we lost basically every California race,’’ Ryan said Thursday. “This election system they have — I can’t begin to understand what ‘ballot harvesting’ is.”
In part due to mail-in and provisional ballots that delivered the margin of victory to Democratic challengers in a handful of seats, California’s Republican delegation appears to have been slashed in half — in the new Congress, Republicans are likely to hold just seven of the state’s 53 House seats, the party’s lowest number since the 1940’s.
Ryan’s statements drew a sharp rebuke from California Secretary of State Alex Padilla, who said Thursday that “it is bizarre that Paul Ryan cannot grasp basic voting rights protections.”
Padilla, a Democrat who oversees the elections process in a state with 19 million registered voters, told POLITICO that “our elections in California are structured so that every eligible citizen can easily register, and every registered voter can easily cast their ballot.”
That concept, he said, “[might be] strange for Speaker Ryan, who comes from Wisconsin,’’ but Padilla added, “I’m happy to walk him through the bottom line.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/29/california-2018-midterm-elections-results-voting-republicans-1031072
There is 40mln people living in California. How come there are only 19mln eligible for vote?
For comparison 38mln people living in Poland and around 30mln are eligible.
|
On December 02 2018 19:41 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 12:33 Wulfey_LA wrote:On December 02 2018 10:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 02 2018 10:04 Doodsmack wrote:On December 02 2018 08:08 Nouar wrote:So, a less talked about election issue from the midterms : in North Carolina, according to a number of affidavits, several from elderly black voters, a member of the republican campaign coordinated an effort to go door-to-door in a democrat-leaning county, posing as election official, and asking to hand over absentee ballots, even if blank. Then, he would have filled in or discarded them. In addition, it seems there is a unusually large number of absentee ballots in that county, with over 96% of them going to the republican candidate, while the usual win margin is around 65% from what I read previously (can't remember where). The republican is leading by around 900 votes, but the board is refusing to certify the result. For all the republicans crying about voter fraud, now this one seems to have some basis. And it's not coming from who they would love it to :-D WaPo Source Funnily enough, voter fraud only became a concern for Republicans once they took power at the state level during the Obama years. Interesting isn't it? This is election fraud. A republican systematically went around to change the result of the election in their favor. This isn't voters cheating the system and nothing Republicans have been suggesting like voter ID would have fixed this or maybe that's the point. The quote is a bit off, but the sentiment is dead on.
“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stalin-vote-count-quote/Voter fraud has never changed a damn thing a may only arguably exist beyond double digits over the last several decades. But election fraud, oh yeah, that one is real. And in NC it really happened and flipped the result. Hell, Paul Ryan and Trump were calling for ending counting of the votes on election night because they were head. The nominal heads of the Republican party are opposed to counting every vote if they think they are losing. But I am sure our resident Republicans will pretend they don't share the views of the people they voted for and will continue to vote for.
We were only down 26 seats the night of the election and three weeks later, we lost basically every California race,’’ Ryan said Thursday. “This election system they have — I can’t begin to understand what ‘ballot harvesting’ is.”
In part due to mail-in and provisional ballots that delivered the margin of victory to Democratic challengers in a handful of seats, California’s Republican delegation appears to have been slashed in half — in the new Congress, Republicans are likely to hold just seven of the state’s 53 House seats, the party’s lowest number since the 1940’s.
Ryan’s statements drew a sharp rebuke from California Secretary of State Alex Padilla, who said Thursday that “it is bizarre that Paul Ryan cannot grasp basic voting rights protections.”
Padilla, a Democrat who oversees the elections process in a state with 19 million registered voters, told POLITICO that “our elections in California are structured so that every eligible citizen can easily register, and every registered voter can easily cast their ballot.”
That concept, he said, “[might be] strange for Speaker Ryan, who comes from Wisconsin,’’ but Padilla added, “I’m happy to walk him through the bottom line.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/29/california-2018-midterm-elections-results-voting-republicans-1031072 There is 40mln people living in California. How come there are only 19mln eligible for vote? For comparison 38mln people living in Poland and around 30mln are eligible.
People under 18 can't vote, which probably makes a sizeable chunk of that. Quick googling has 22.9% of the population listed as minors, which makes 9.16m of that 19m.
|
On December 02 2018 20:49 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 19:41 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 12:33 Wulfey_LA wrote:On December 02 2018 10:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On December 02 2018 10:04 Doodsmack wrote:On December 02 2018 08:08 Nouar wrote:So, a less talked about election issue from the midterms : in North Carolina, according to a number of affidavits, several from elderly black voters, a member of the republican campaign coordinated an effort to go door-to-door in a democrat-leaning county, posing as election official, and asking to hand over absentee ballots, even if blank. Then, he would have filled in or discarded them. In addition, it seems there is a unusually large number of absentee ballots in that county, with over 96% of them going to the republican candidate, while the usual win margin is around 65% from what I read previously (can't remember where). The republican is leading by around 900 votes, but the board is refusing to certify the result. For all the republicans crying about voter fraud, now this one seems to have some basis. And it's not coming from who they would love it to :-D WaPo Source Funnily enough, voter fraud only became a concern for Republicans once they took power at the state level during the Obama years. Interesting isn't it? This is election fraud. A republican systematically went around to change the result of the election in their favor. This isn't voters cheating the system and nothing Republicans have been suggesting like voter ID would have fixed this or maybe that's the point. The quote is a bit off, but the sentiment is dead on.
“I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how; but what is extraordinarily important is this — who will count the votes, and how.”
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/stalin-vote-count-quote/Voter fraud has never changed a damn thing a may only arguably exist beyond double digits over the last several decades. But election fraud, oh yeah, that one is real. And in NC it really happened and flipped the result. Hell, Paul Ryan and Trump were calling for ending counting of the votes on election night because they were head. The nominal heads of the Republican party are opposed to counting every vote if they think they are losing. But I am sure our resident Republicans will pretend they don't share the views of the people they voted for and will continue to vote for.
We were only down 26 seats the night of the election and three weeks later, we lost basically every California race,’’ Ryan said Thursday. “This election system they have — I can’t begin to understand what ‘ballot harvesting’ is.”
In part due to mail-in and provisional ballots that delivered the margin of victory to Democratic challengers in a handful of seats, California’s Republican delegation appears to have been slashed in half — in the new Congress, Republicans are likely to hold just seven of the state’s 53 House seats, the party’s lowest number since the 1940’s.
Ryan’s statements drew a sharp rebuke from California Secretary of State Alex Padilla, who said Thursday that “it is bizarre that Paul Ryan cannot grasp basic voting rights protections.”
Padilla, a Democrat who oversees the elections process in a state with 19 million registered voters, told POLITICO that “our elections in California are structured so that every eligible citizen can easily register, and every registered voter can easily cast their ballot.”
That concept, he said, “[might be] strange for Speaker Ryan, who comes from Wisconsin,’’ but Padilla added, “I’m happy to walk him through the bottom line.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/29/california-2018-midterm-elections-results-voting-republicans-1031072 There is 40mln people living in California. How come there are only 19mln eligible for vote? For comparison 38mln people living in Poland and around 30mln are eligible. People under 18 can't vote, which probably makes a sizeable chunk of that. Quick googling has 22.9% of the population listed as minors, which makes 9.16m of that 19m.
And I assume a good portion of the remainder of those are felons who at the time weren't eligible to vote due to the referendum not having gone through yet.
|
|
|
On December 02 2018 22:31 JimmiC wrote:
That was florida that didnt allow felons but now do. Some vould be not citizens?
Shiit you're right. I read Florida instead of California. It's what I get for skimming through TL in bed right after waking up.
|
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters.
|
It’s called Election Fraud, not voter fraud. Because the voters didn’t do the fraud.
|
On December 02 2018 13:28 plasmidghost wrote:
That NC story is crazy with how brazen it is. Who investigates election fraud like that? I haven't heard of a case like that
The chairman of the NC board of elections already resigned to not taint the investigation since he is a democrat. Obviously it would just be a partisan attack if he was still at the helm since he has made tweets that are anti Trump.
The election commission already voted 7-2 to open a inquiry into the election fraud.
|
On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters.
Can non registered vote?
|
On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No.
The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so.
If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day.
Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting.
A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US.
|
On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US.
As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody.
|
On December 03 2018 02:08 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US. As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody.
But why require it? What is gained by requiring someone to sign up? Status quo should be that someone does vote. Voting is, imo, a duty, not just a right. Choosing not to participate is unethical and I think it is good for government to encourage participation.
Having less than 90% turnout is a failure. The fact that the entire planet has issues with voting participation shouldn't make us lose track of what the ideal scenario is. We have a lot of cultural work to do and I think automatic registration helps with participation frrlibg more implied than optional.
|
|
|
On December 02 2018 11:27 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 10:04 Doodsmack wrote:On December 02 2018 08:08 Nouar wrote:So, a less talked about election issue from the midterms : in North Carolina, according to a number of affidavits, several from elderly black voters, a member of the republican campaign coordinated an effort to go door-to-door in a democrat-leaning county, posing as election official, and asking to hand over absentee ballots, even if blank. Then, he would have filled in or discarded them. In addition, it seems there is a unusually large number of absentee ballots in that county, with over 96% of them going to the republican candidate, while the usual win margin is around 65% from what I read previously (can't remember where). The republican is leading by around 900 votes, but the board is refusing to certify the result. For all the republicans crying about voter fraud, now this one seems to have some basis. And it's not coming from who they would love it to :-D WaPo Source Funnily enough, voter fraud only became a concern for Republicans once they took power at the state level during the Obama years. Interesting isn't it? where did you get this from?
Just going on memory. Especially after 2012 is when it picked up. It is an attempt to retain power, as admitted by multiple of its perpetrators.
|
On December 03 2018 04:50 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 11:27 Introvert wrote:On December 02 2018 10:04 Doodsmack wrote:On December 02 2018 08:08 Nouar wrote:So, a less talked about election issue from the midterms : in North Carolina, according to a number of affidavits, several from elderly black voters, a member of the republican campaign coordinated an effort to go door-to-door in a democrat-leaning county, posing as election official, and asking to hand over absentee ballots, even if blank. Then, he would have filled in or discarded them. In addition, it seems there is a unusually large number of absentee ballots in that county, with over 96% of them going to the republican candidate, while the usual win margin is around 65% from what I read previously (can't remember where). The republican is leading by around 900 votes, but the board is refusing to certify the result. For all the republicans crying about voter fraud, now this one seems to have some basis. And it's not coming from who they would love it to :-D WaPo Source Funnily enough, voter fraud only became a concern for Republicans once they took power at the state level during the Obama years. Interesting isn't it? where did you get this from? Just going on memory. Especially after 2012 is when it picked up. It is an attempt to retain power, as admitted by multiple of its perpetrators.
it's not really true; your confusion may come from the fact that it wasn't until the Republicans won a bunch of state houses that they were actually able to do something.
|
Yes, Republicans have been trying to combat a phantom problem they refuse to investigate or verify in a systematic way since at least the 90s. Once upon a time they actually tried to pair these mechanisms with ways to get people free IDs, however, so it wasn't nearly as toxic (or advantageous).
That's not to mention the kinds of "reforms" that resulted in the passage of the Voting Rights Act in the 60s, though those were much more geographically unified than the current Voter ID movement.
|
On December 03 2018 02:18 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 02:08 Acrofales wrote:On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US. As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody. But why require it? What is gained by requiring someone to sign up? Status quo should be that someone does vote. Voting is, imo, a duty, not just a right. Choosing not to participate is unethical and I think it is good for government to encourage participation. Having less than 90% turnout is a failure. The fact that the entire planet has issues with voting participation shouldn't make us lose track of what the ideal scenario is. We have a lot of cultural work to do and I think automatic registration helps with participation frrlibg more implied than optional.
I should not have to vote if I don't want to vote. I do not support democracy as a governing system so forcing me to engage in the system is an abuse of power.
|
On December 03 2018 20:55 ReditusSum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 02:18 Mohdoo wrote:On December 03 2018 02:08 Acrofales wrote:On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US. As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody. But why require it? What is gained by requiring someone to sign up? Status quo should be that someone does vote. Voting is, imo, a duty, not just a right. Choosing not to participate is unethical and I think it is good for government to encourage participation. Having less than 90% turnout is a failure. The fact that the entire planet has issues with voting participation shouldn't make us lose track of what the ideal scenario is. We have a lot of cultural work to do and I think automatic registration helps with participation frrlibg more implied than optional. I should not have to vote if I don't want to vote. I do not support democracy as a governing system so forcing me to engage in the system is an abuse of power.
Interesting. What's your preference to Democracy?
|
On December 03 2018 20:57 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 20:55 ReditusSum wrote:On December 03 2018 02:18 Mohdoo wrote:On December 03 2018 02:08 Acrofales wrote:On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US. As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody. But why require it? What is gained by requiring someone to sign up? Status quo should be that someone does vote. Voting is, imo, a duty, not just a right. Choosing not to participate is unethical and I think it is good for government to encourage participation. Having less than 90% turnout is a failure. The fact that the entire planet has issues with voting participation shouldn't make us lose track of what the ideal scenario is. We have a lot of cultural work to do and I think automatic registration helps with participation frrlibg more implied than optional. I should not have to vote if I don't want to vote. I do not support democracy as a governing system so forcing me to engage in the system is an abuse of power. Interesting. What's your preference to Democracy?
I'm not sure yet. I'd need to do more research. I'm leaning toward theocratic-monarchy with some democratic elements as regards to local councils and what-not; maybe some kind of National Senate appointed by the State Governors (who would be more like Dukes; a hereditary position of basically absolute authority within the State) that has some kind of advisory, possibly more important function.
|
On December 03 2018 21:02 ReditusSum wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 20:57 iamthedave wrote:On December 03 2018 20:55 ReditusSum wrote:On December 03 2018 02:18 Mohdoo wrote:On December 03 2018 02:08 Acrofales wrote:On December 03 2018 00:51 Gorsameth wrote:On December 03 2018 00:42 Silvanel wrote:On December 02 2018 22:51 georgehabadasher wrote:
The article said California has 19 million registered voters, not 19 million eligible voters. Can non registered vote? No. The US uses an system here eligible voters have to register that they want to vote before actually being allowed to do so. If you didn't register in time you can't vote on election day. Its an antiquated system that one party has no interest in replacing because it would hurt their ability to suppress certain demographics from voting. A quick google gives me 25 mil eligible voters in California and 19mil registered. Donno how that compares to the rest of the US. As a foreigner living in Spain, I have to explicitly register to vote in the municipal elections. Simply being registered as living there is insufficient. It's not a hard process (they sent me a letter with a code on it that I could use on the website to register for voting), but it is something you have to do. I don't think it's so farfetched to require people to show some interest in the democratic process before election day? Assuming the process is simple and accessible for everybody. But why require it? What is gained by requiring someone to sign up? Status quo should be that someone does vote. Voting is, imo, a duty, not just a right. Choosing not to participate is unethical and I think it is good for government to encourage participation. Having less than 90% turnout is a failure. The fact that the entire planet has issues with voting participation shouldn't make us lose track of what the ideal scenario is. We have a lot of cultural work to do and I think automatic registration helps with participation frrlibg more implied than optional. I should not have to vote if I don't want to vote. I do not support democracy as a governing system so forcing me to engage in the system is an abuse of power. Interesting. What's your preference to Democracy? I'm not sure yet. I'd need to do more research. I'm leaning toward theocratic-monarchy with some democratic elements as regards to local councils and what-not; maybe some kind of National Senate appointed by the State Governors (who would be more like Dukes; a hereditary position of basically absolute authority within the State) that has some kind of advisory, possibly more important function.
Personally I too am leaning towards one where we accept the rule of the God-Emperor of USA.
But hey, Saudi Arabia mixed with Iran is the best form of goverment right?
But it is interesting that reditusun does not want to vote. (Is he of voting age with voting rights?) He would rather be a slave. To a theocratic monarchy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
