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On November 30 2018 13:23 Ben... wrote:According to CNN, Trump's legal team found out yesterday about what was about to happen with Cohen's plea deal. Apparently he was visually upset and acting even stranger than normal at the Christmas tree lighting ceremony yesterday (the thing he suddenly ditched early last night with no explanation given) after receiving a phone call. I saw a picture on Twitter of him at it and he was irritated looking, and in the background you can see two of his kids looking at him with a fair amount of concern. In several different pictures I saw, he appears to be gritting his teeth and upset.
Cohen implicated trump's kids in his testimony, and said both don jr and Ivanka were very much involved in the trump tower Moscow deal. Cohen also has receipts in the form of emails, which are in the hands of investigators. Transcripts show that don jr told the house Intel committee that he was not involved. Don jr will be indicted.
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It is pretty frustrating to see how easily they throw the 'everybody knew about it' defense over the Trump tower moscow dealings still going on after the presidency. Like he literally denied having any dealings with Russia. Don Jr denied knowing about it. Manafort said there were no contacts with oligarchs.
But now it's 'perfectly legal, everybody knew about it, business men do business what did you expect?' and all is ok.
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On November 30 2018 18:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
It is pretty frustrating to see how easily they throw the 'everybody knew about it' defense over the Trump tower moscow dealings still going on after the presidency. Like he literally denied having any dealings with Russia. Don Jr denied knowing about it. Manafort said there were no contacts with oligarchs.
But now it's 'perfectly legal, everybody knew about it, business men do business what did you expect?' and all is ok.
They may be saying that, but this could be the lie that catches up with Trump. Unlike everything else, this is him lying to the American people about business deals he was working on while he was campaigning. There is no question that he deceived the American people for his own gain and to win the election. And it calls into question his relationship with countries like Saudi Arabia, who he also bends over backwards to defend and has had business deals in the past with.
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And Putin could have contradicted Trump at any moment during the campaign about the dealings, too.
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Why contradict Trump when you know that you can use the lie as blackmail forever?
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I don't think going after Ivanka is going to prompt the response some people seem to think. Trump has a lot of people counseling him regarding this whole thing and I think it is very likely that he is being told trying to rescue Ivanka and Jr may actually just give him the same sentence. It won't surprise me if he uses his kids to take the fall.
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On December 01 2018 00:58 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think going after Ivanka is going to prompt the response some people seem to think. Trump has a lot of people counseling him regarding this whole thing and I think it is very likely that he is being told trying to rescue Ivanka and Jr may actually just give him the same sentence. It won't surprise me if he uses his kids to take the fall.
Kinda depends on what evidence Mueller has at this point. If he's as directly implicated as news reports say (He signed the letter of intent in Russia) it's hard to argue that it was all his kids.
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On December 01 2018 00:58 Mohdoo wrote:
I don't think going after Ivanka is going to prompt the response some people seem to think. Trump has a lot of people counseling him regarding this whole thing and I think it is very likely that he is being told trying to rescue Ivanka and Jr may actually just give him the same sentence. It won't surprise me if he uses his kids to take the fall.
He can try, but it seems clear that the Trump family is implicated directly at this point. I'm more interested in the NRA or Republican leadership like Mitch McConnell in how far the conspiracy goes at this point. Trump getting a deal for himself or his kids exposing the rest of the conspirators seems a lot more viable than using his kids to take the fall.
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The big shift between 48 hours ago and now is that DJT's "but I am ignorant on everything anyone in my campaign did and you don't have emails to prove me wrong because I never send emails" defense fell apart hard. DJT can't claim ignorance from what his kids do EDIT2: and from what his lawyer/fixer Cohen plead out to emailing DJT/DonJR/Ivanka about. DJT had to concede that the Russian deals happened because not even his cultists will buy his plea of ignorance when it is DonJR and Ivanka doing the colluding. The ignorance defense was actually a good defense against collusion while it held. But now that he has conceded that he was lying and that he knew, the damn is burst and every day will be a new admission of previous knowledge and previous lying when he denied such knowledge.
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 30 2018 23:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
And Putin could have contradicted Trump at any moment during the campaign about the dealings, too.
Also, to this point. Check out Russian state media! They knew damn well about the deals.
EDIT: It looks like DJT is past his usefulness date for Russian state media and now his Presidency is a spear with which to poke America.
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On December 01 2018 02:10 Wulfey_LA wrote:DJT had to concede that the Russian deals happened because not even his cultists will buy his plea of ignorance when it is DonJR and Ivanka doing the colluding. You must be new here, anything can and will be denied/twisted or just strait up ignored.
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So what does Russia do from here? What can they make Trump do to harm the US/help Russia?
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On December 01 2018 02:21 plasmidghost wrote:
So what does Russia do from here? What can they make Trump do to harm the US/help Russia?
Nothing. They already won and got everything they could have expected.
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On December 01 2018 02:21 plasmidghost wrote:
So what does Russia do from here? What can they make Trump do to harm the US/help Russia?
A President that the people of the US believe is in Putin's pocket is a victory beyond anything he could have hoped for. Anything above that is bonus points and extra places on the high score board.
He'd be thrilled, thrilled, if this ends in impeachment for Trump.
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On December 01 2018 02:21 plasmidghost wrote:
So what does Russia do from here? What can they make Trump do to harm the US/help Russia? The same thing have been doing since the start of this. Keep stirring up the divide between left and right. Trump was a happy accident, the main objective has always been to weaken America through a divided country (and as a result Congress).
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On December 01 2018 02:21 plasmidghost wrote:
So what does Russia do from here? What can they make Trump do to harm the US/help Russia?
The plan from the beginning was:
Step 1: Take existing tensions in the US and use fake social media accounts (BLM, Alt right, far left, far right) to stoke tensions and make the US even more polarized
Step 2: Prop up an extremely polarizing presidential candidate
Step 3: Let tribalism and more social media stuff create a situation where no matter what happens, his followers will always support him and oppose any attempt to attack him
Step 4: Eventually, Trump gets hung out to dry and the jaws of the US intelligence community surround Trump
Step 5 (not here yet): Eruption of a somewhat civil war regarding what to do about the fact that Trump is proven 100% guilty
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If the right takes the position that trump's pursuit of a business deal with a lucrative incentive for Putin himself is NBD, they have abdicated their patriotism and pretty much their mental faculties.
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Apparently Trump Jr. told congress that the Trump organization had abandoned the Moscow real estate deal in 2014, which is very bad and is 100% going to get the lad investigated.
God help them if they lied about more than this. It is going to be a new world once the Democrats are in the House and the Senate isn't going to be able to stop them. Or the state AGs and FBI that will dig into anything congress finds.
Trump Jr.'s 2017 Testimony Conflicts With Cohen's Account Of Russian Talks
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On December 01 2018 02:46 Doodsmack wrote:
If the right takes the position that trump's pursuit of a business deal with a lucrative incentive for Putin himself is NBD, they have abdicated their patriotism and pretty much their mental faculties.
Don't forget, this is likely the tip of the iceberg. Whenever something like this comes out so publicly, it means something much bigger is coming.
In my opinion, this fits in well with my theory that all this information was here for a long time. They already had the bombshell evidence and that is why everyone who gets briefed suddenly stops making a fuss and people recuse themselves. It is just that there are a bunch of really weird social dynamics at play.
Just look at how many people still don't think there is a Russia connection. Society would have fallen apart in the US if they just announced Trump took Russian money and collaborated against Clinton. This is them presenting conclusive evidence Trump had big financial workings with Putin himself. Once we let that simmer for a little bit, we will likely get more and more. It's just that tribalism in rural communities has a lot of momentum.
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On December 01 2018 02:17 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2018 02:10 Wulfey_LA wrote:DJT had to concede that the Russian deals happened because not even his cultists will buy his plea of ignorance when it is DonJR and Ivanka doing the colluding. You must be new here, anything can and will be denied/twisted or just strait up ignored.
From the horse's mouth:
@realDonaldTrump
9h9 hours ago
More
Oh, I get it! I am a very good developer, happily living my life, when I see our Country going in the wrong direction (to put it mildly). Against all odds, I decide to run for President & continue to run my business-very legal & very cool, talked about it on the campaign trail...
...Lightly looked at doing a building somewhere in Russia. Put up zero money, zero guarantees and didn’t do the project. Witch Hunt!
This is a tremendous admission. DJT and everyone under him has been lying in varying states of legal jeopardy by claiming (1) there were no Russia contacts and/or (2) DJT did not know about them.
DJT just conceded that yes there were Russia contacts and he did know about them, thus putting the lie to two years of false denials of both (1) existence of the contacts and (2) ignorance of the contacts.
Yeah, we are still going to get trolls showing up every 100 pages that say "but where is the proof of Russiagate? Everything was debunked in a Greenwald/Tracey post." But now the trolls can't even hide behind the big man's denials. This is also why KAVANAUGH's vehement denial strategy was a good one. Partisans can always use motivated reasoning to line up behind a full denial. But admissions like Trump's don't leave any room for denialists to hide behind.
EDIT: this is a fun hit reel of the denials.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 30 2018 18:21 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
It is pretty frustrating to see how easily they throw the 'everybody knew about it' defense over the Trump tower moscow dealings still going on after the presidency. Like he literally denied having any dealings with Russia. Don Jr denied knowing about it. Manafort said there were no contacts with oligarchs.
But now it's 'perfectly legal, everybody knew about it, business men do business what did you expect?' and all is ok.
This is called "controlling the conversation", and Innuendo Studios' video about it is still one of the most necessary videos. It's pretty rare that you see a debate with the american right/far right without that process being in play.
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EPT
