EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 912
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
Trump can jump high and low all he wants. His power is limited, that's the whole point of separate branches of government. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:46 farvacola wrote: Trump going for a coup would end a lot like Theon rallying his troops before the Flayed Men invaded Winterfell. The military is no friend of his, generally speaking. Any wargame scenario done by the military likely concludes they should not intervene until the absolute last moment. Probably only once marches and whatnot would be cracked down on. I'm not really sure when the military would step in. | ||
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Panthous
30 Posts
Look, you people are being naive. Trump has been successfully chipping away at democratic institutions for 2 years now, with barely any opposition. It is not like tomorrow completely out of the blue Trump will suddenly order a coup. That is not how a coup happens. Especially not one being carried out by a sitting president. Several times every decade a country slips from being a flawed democracy towards an actual dictatorship. A democracy is an unstable equilibrium. If you give it a little bump it will slip towards tyranny unless there is a force acting on it, keeping it in the unstable equilibrium. All I am saying is that Trump will not go to jail. He will find a way. And Trump's support in yesterday's election makes it really hard to oppose him. Especially for Republicans. I still think they will let this quickly go away at some point, Mueller being a Republican and politicians of both parties wanting to avoid the embarrassment of finding out their president for the last 4 years was a Russian agent and is now in jail. I still believe Mueller will destroy the evidence he finds implicating Trump and blame Roger Stone for everything. The actual question is what happens to Trump jr. I think this is about the jr. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:35 farvacola wrote: If things get that far, it'll be time to fight in the streets, it's not like an impeached Trump's rallies won't be violent, awful affairs with huge numbers turning out in opposition. And all the Repubs who swallowed his bullshot because it gave them power are not gonna join in, it'll be the end of Trumpism as we know it. Trump does not control the SC lol, as much as fear mongering to the contrary asserts otherwise. Folks like Clarence Thomas would be especially likely to smack Trump down if he tries shit that was settled in 1820. This is what I think is becoming a likely scenario. There is no way that Trump will go peacefully. Not only that, but if Mueller lays out a roadmap like they just released for Nixon, and the Senate refuses to impeach, you will see righties frothing at the mouth screaming that the impeachment is illegitimate, and you will see the lefties in the streets fighting them because they have had enough/are retaliating. That ignores all the other possibilities that a desperate and unhinged Trump might bring to pass (starting a war, using the military against Americans, or overreaching in some other way). It will be like a gang war. An asynchronous civil war. Likely? Not yet. Possible? Unfortunately. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12036 Posts
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
That's probably oversimplifying things, but I promise you if you think the military will have no part in Trump's nonsense, you are so fucking way off. As a soldier in the Army, I was put into positions like this in South Korea during rioting and protesting. Thank Jeebus I never had to make a decision about firing or not firing at someone. I can't even imagine. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:53 Ayaz2810 wrote: Unrest on a level the police utterly cannot handle. Decently unlikely.A lot of you guys talking about the military disobeying Trump are oversimplifying. It won't be "go out and arrest my opponents!". It won't be that clean. It'll start with "I am deploying troops to protect our cities from the unrest/vandalism/looting". Then, the military collectively shrugs and says "okay, this is a job we can do with a clear conscience". Then the next step is to order the military to start arresting demonstrators. When those people fight back, shooting will start. Then, VOILA, you have justification for a coup that the military won't bat an eye at. That's probably oversimplifying things, but I promise you if you think the military will have no part in Trump's nonsense, you are so fucking way off. As a soldier in the Army, I was put into positions like this in South Korea during rioting and protesting. Thank Jeebus I never had to make a decision about firing or not firing at someone. I can't even imagine. The military being deployed instead of outside police. Unlikely, deploying military against your own civilians never goes over well. Military arresting protestors. Rather unlikely Shooting. Super unlikely. A Coup, hell will freeze over first. I'm seriously not even remotely worried it will ever get beyond low level unrest and I question the grasp on reality of anyone that even considers a coup as a remote possibility. | ||
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On November 08 2018 06:57 farvacola wrote: Trump is particularly unpopular with the officers corps, so I very much doubt they'd shrug off any request of his as it pertains to civil unrest. Further, we get into state/federal territory given the division of command among governors and the Feds as it pertains to the national guard. Many, if not most, governors would counter deploy or give counter instructions if Trump tried unilaterally imposing any kind of martial law. I have doubts about that. But I hope you're right. I don't think it will go that way in Trumpy states at all. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
On November 08 2018 07:00 Ayaz2810 wrote: The jump from "I like Trump because he makes me feel good about being a racist" to "Lets start a civil war" is so massive it doesn't bare talking about.I have doubts about that. But I hope you're right. I don't think it will go that way in Trumpy states at all. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Ayaz2810
United States2763 Posts
On November 08 2018 07:00 Gorsameth wrote: Unrest on a level the police utterly cannot handle. Decently unlikely. The military being deployed instead of outside police. Unlikely, deploying military against your own civilians never goes over well. Military arresting protestors. Rather unlikely Shooting. Super unlikely. A Coup, hell will freeze over first. I'm seriously not even remotely worried it will ever get beyond low level unrest and I question the grasp on reality of anyone that even considers a coup as a remote possibility. It's entirely possible that I'm being paranoid, but the military has been used already for low level unrest. Hell, I remember at the beginning of this year (maybe the end of last?) there were soldiers deployed during protests. I want to say it was Baltimore (not sure)? "As the Missouri National Guard prepared to deploy to help quell riots in Ferguson, Missouri, that raged sporadically last year, the guard used highly militarized words such as "enemy forces" and "adversaries" to refer to protesters, according to documents obtained by CNN." https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/17/politics/missouri-national-guard-ferguson-protesters/index.html Anyway, the point is that it's possible, and this would be the President* to do it. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
The crisis moment would be when trump decides to leave the white house permanently. On November 08 2018 07:04 Dangermousecatdog wrote: To be fair, the military would be better at policing than the police would. I'm telling yall we need to call up the militia to take back our street corners from them damm drug dealers. | ||
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Panthous
30 Posts
Some of you should read 'How Democracy Ends´. Democracy can also end with Trump trying to call for a coup, and it horribly failing. When Trump throws the country into a constitutional crisis and it is either him or a complete power vacuum, what happens? If Trump somehow gets the military in the streets, under a pretense of course, and those soldiers on the floor are in a completely chaotic situation and they do not know whose orders to follow, who knows what will happen. People here seriously suggest that Mattis and Kelly have already talked about how to carry out a coup against Trump. That is already an absurd idea, even though I agree it might have happened. But if it happened and Trump has evidence, that can be considered treasonous. And yes, removing article 25 basically is a coup. But that is all besides the point. I am not saying there will be a coup, I am saying that Trump will find a way to end the Mueller investigation. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
One thing I dont understand is Ted Cruz. I understand people who re conservative. I can understand people who vote republican. I can even understand people supporting Trump.. What I cant understand is people supporting and voting for Ted Cruz. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
On November 08 2018 07:35 Geo.Rion wrote: Its really simple.Interesting election, both sides seem to be somewhat happy with the outcome. One thing I dont understand is Ted Cruz. I understand people who re conservative. I can understand people who vote republican. I can even understand people supporting Trump.. What I cant understand is people supporting and voting for Ted Cruz. There is an R next to his name. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On November 08 2018 07:40 Gorsameth wrote: Its really simple. There is an R next to his name. More so there is a D next to his opponent's name. | ||
KwarK
United States44386 Posts
On November 08 2018 07:00 Gorsameth wrote: Unrest on a level the police utterly cannot handle. Decently unlikely. The military being deployed instead of outside police. Unlikely, deploying military against your own civilians never goes over well. Military arresting protestors. Rather unlikely Shooting. Super unlikely. A Coup, hell will freeze over first. I'm seriously not even remotely worried it will ever get beyond low level unrest and I question the grasp on reality of anyone that even considers a coup as a remote possibility. The army actually has rules of engagement, unlike the police. Police would be more effective. | ||
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