EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 898
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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ReditusSum
79 Posts
On November 06 2018 21:40 farvacola wrote: Further, the idea that technology and progress has separated people from one another is literally a bunch of loaded bullshit. Then why do studies show a rise in social isolation whilst simultaneously showing no significant rise in loneliness? The easiest answer is that while the apps, games, chatrooms, etc. are all connecting people and fulfilling the one side of social interaction (mitigating loneliness), they are not fulfilling the other side of social interaction, which is physically connecting with other people in common social structures with common social goals. I'm not only talking about Sunday BBQ and sandlot-baseball. Those things are good, and part of the overall idea, but they are over-emphasized when we're talking about the actual fundamentals, which is why I wasn't talking about 1950s nostalgia but specifically said "Church and Town" which goes back much, much further than 1950s. More like 1250. Which is not to say that we should go back to 1250 or that the medieval man didn't have his own problems, just that a sense of "where do I fit into the world?" did not exist and thus was not a problem. And for most of human history, this was true. Say what you want about the caste system, but one of the primary benefits of the caste system is that you always know where you fit into the world and your specific place in society. As we move away from those systems and into the Enlightenment era of democratization we began very slowly stripping away all of those social markers that defined people for the vast, vast majority of our history. Now we've reached a point unimaginable to any previous generations in that a person has basically full control over every aspect of their social life, down to the most minute details. Is this good? Sure. Is this bad? Sure. It's different. It has its upsides and its downsides. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
9062 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On November 07 2018 05:35 ReditusSum wrote: Then why do studies show a rise in social isolation whilst simultaneously showing no significant rise in loneliness? The easiest answer is that while the apps, games, chatrooms, etc. are all connecting people and fulfilling the one side of social interaction (mitigating loneliness), they are not fulfilling the other side of social interaction, which is physically connecting with other people in common social structures with common social goals. I'm not only talking about Sunday BBQ and sandlot-baseball. Those things are good, and part of the overall idea, but they are over-emphasized when we're talking about the actual fundamentals, which is why I wasn't talking about 1950s nostalgia but specifically said "Church and Town" which goes back much, much further than 1950s. More like 1250. Which is not to say that we should go back to 1250 or that the medieval man didn't have his own problems, just that a sense of "where do I fit into the world?" did not exist and thus was not a problem. And for most of human history, this was true. Say what you want about the caste system, but one of the primary benefits of the caste system is that you always know where you fit into the world and your specific place in society. As we move away from those systems and into the Enlightenment era of democratization we began very slowly stripping away all of those social markers that defined people for the vast, vast majority of our history. Now we've reached a point unimaginable to any previous generations in that a person has basically full control over every aspect of their social life, down to the most minute details. Is this good? Sure. Is this bad? Sure. It's different. It has its upsides and its downsides. First off, facebook is terrible for humans because we engage in comparative analysis, and most people present themselves on facebook as happier and more successful than they actually are. Anyway, for hundreds of years in Europe, society was terribly, brutally unequal. People had no rights, were taxed based on the local lord's whims, could be drafted for wars they didn't care about and had no say in... and all of this was largely justified by everyone knowing their place in the world, as told to them by the Church and those with secular power. The lack of people questioning their place in the world was in itself a problem. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28866 Posts
opinion of republican party : 43% favorable, 54% unfavorable democrat : 50% favorable, 46% unfavorable | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
That said early voting numbers and exit polls are like tea leaves, to be read with extreme caution and knowing they tell you more about your own perceptions than anything else. | ||
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On November 07 2018 05:35 ReditusSum wrote: Then why do studies show a rise in social isolation whilst simultaneously showing no significant rise in loneliness? The easiest answer is that while the apps, games, chatrooms, etc. are all connecting people and fulfilling the one side of social interaction (mitigating loneliness), they are not fulfilling the other side of social interaction, which is physically connecting with other people in common social structures with common social goals. I'm not only talking about Sunday BBQ and sandlot-baseball. Those things are good, and part of the overall idea, but they are over-emphasized when we're talking about the actual fundamentals, which is why I wasn't talking about 1950s nostalgia but specifically said "Church and Town" which goes back much, much further than 1950s. More like 1250. Which is not to say that we should go back to 1250 or that the medieval man didn't have his own problems, just that a sense of "where do I fit into the world?" did not exist and thus was not a problem. And for most of human history, this was true. Say what you want about the caste system, but one of the primary benefits of the caste system is that you always know where you fit into the world and your specific place in society. As we move away from those systems and into the Enlightenment era of democratization we began very slowly stripping away all of those social markers that defined people for the vast, vast majority of our history. Now we've reached a point unimaginable to any previous generations in that a person has basically full control over every aspect of their social life, down to the most minute details. Is this good? Sure. Is this bad? Sure. It's different. It has its upsides and its downsides. I'm having a hard time taking you seriously when 1250 medieval Europe was brutally violent and 90% of people knew where they fit...as basically slaves, stuck to the land they were born on, needing permission from their master and lord to marry, at the mercy of roaming bandits and mercenaries, till they were called up to a levy during one of the incessant high level conflicts endemic to the time and era, where they will probably die to disease and run away in battle to become said mercenaries and bandits in a foreign area. I'm sure they didn't think of themselves as slaves, but that's because that's what the social religious system ensures - that the peasants are content to be slaves; the chains are in their minds, not on their ankles. Also around 1250s Europe was in the middle of a war between the Holy Roman Empire and the Papacy on who was in a postion of power, that's right the most powerful nation state in Europe was fighting the Pope, the head of the Church, the Teutonic Knights were currently conquering the conquering the area now known as Poland, and there was several crusades getting rid of upstart peasants in Belgian/Dutch lands and various "heretics" in France, killing millions of "heretics" in Europe alone. Eastern European Kingdoms had converted to Christianity maybe 100 years before, Greece the so called place of the birth of democracy was being carved up by various kingdoms, and most of Spain were ruled by Muslim Kingdoms. Lets not forget that Orthodox Christians made up about 20% of Europes population and if you think Catholic Kingdoms were intolerent of them, wait till you see what they did to the local jewish populations. I'm sure they too knew their place and where the fit in society. Lets not even get started in the Hussite wars and the Wars of Religion and reformation, where people most certainly did know where they fit into the world and their specific place in society and killed their neighbours over it. Maybe learn a little bit about history first before you make such comment? I haven't even started on the rest of the world. | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
If you're interested in live FL results. I personally am anxious, and have been anxious all day, but have a good feeling rather than a bad one, that wasn't the same feeling when watching the results for 2016. | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
On November 07 2018 07:15 JimmiC wrote: I don't disagree, but this was the point I was trying to make, in made in more detail:Yes I think people questioning their place in the world is more or less a luxury problem, in the sense that previously in history people only had time worry about how they were going to get food, or survive bad weather, or survive bandits or wars or what have you. On November 07 2018 07:45 Dangermousecatdog wrote:I'm having a hard time taking you seriously when 1250 medieval Europe was brutally violent and 90% of people knew where they fit...as basically slaves, stuck to the land they were born on, needing permission from their master and lord to marry, at the mercy of roaming bandits and mercenaries, till they were called up to a levy during one of the incessant high level conflicts endemic to the time and era, where they will probably die to disease and run away in battle to become said mercenaries and bandits in a foreign area. I'm sure they didn't think of themselves as slaves, but that's because that's what the social religious system ensures - that the peasants are content to be slaves; the chains are in their minds, not on their ankles. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Deleted User 173346
16169 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On November 07 2018 08:13 plasmidghost wrote: I wonder how many people's votes were directly influenced by the Kavanaugh debacle. Has any pollster asked that question? Who do you feel it was a debacle for in the public's opinion? | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Crowd anonymity and social media make it much easier for people in cities to self-select and segregate the people they engage with. This isn't news, everyone know this. The supermarket cashier I ream out or the guy I cut off on the freeway aren't going to show up in my discord, or even the facebook group I use to organise playdates for my kids. Odds are, neither are any of the people who saw me do it. In the small town, that's obviously not the case. People will hear this or that about what happened, and if I go all the way and start wandering around in a white hood, everyone will know. That keeps a lid on certain types of issues. However, it's a long way from perfect, so idolising that isn't helpful either. The church-and-town model gives way too much power to curtain-twitching, gossip and vigilantism, and the pendulum swings back against the harmless but slightly weird dude who would pass unnoticed in a city crowd. Pick your poison. Things jumped the shark when 1250 came into it, but the discussion was about extremism originally, and the idea that youth extremism is harder to breed in small communities is quite reasonable. There's just a price to that. | ||
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