US Politics Mega-thread - Page 862

On October 23 2018 03:37 farvacola wrote:
All five of those points are meanginless platitudes that ought serve no role in policymaking. Broadly speaking, none of them are even true given the just as likely tendency that figurative numbers of people hold inverse beliefs. You are using your own experience as a Hispanic to make broad judgments about diverse populations in a manner quite similar to racists and their ethnophobic kin.

On October 23 2018 03:42 Simberto wrote:
Asylum is not the same as migration. I hate how the right has managed to turn the two of them into the same. Asylum means "I left my home because if i go there, i will be tortured and/or murdered. Please don't send me back to the place where i will be tortured and/or murdered."

Not every person coming into a country is the same. And there are good reasons to have a policy that is open to refugees. Even if you dislike migrants, helping people not get tortured and murdered is a good idea.

On October 23 2018 03:47 Mohdoo wrote:


A lot of people on the right see asylum and immigration as the same thing because it has the same impact in their eyes: It decreases the American'ness of American culture and serves to erode our own culture. They think the American way is better than the immigrant way and they think a lot of America's current problems are from straying from the American way.

And thus Make America Great Again was born. It is all one big issue to them. It is about preserving America to them.

On October 23 2018 03:51 Godwrath wrote:

Do you realize that the people who votes for republicans and who think that way aren't going to turn democrat anyways? Who do you want to pander to? Your family?

On October 23 2018 03:46 farvacola wrote:
Yeah, and my posts aren't intended to flag some social currency bullshit so much as they are to indict your poor reasoning with regards to your tribal membership. You do this every so often when hispanics come up, like a Juanes version of a Cletus safari. As the son of a naturalized Hispanic immigrant myself, I find it extremely distasteful and entirely counterproductive relative to your claimed political allegiance

On October 23 2018 03:54 Mohdoo wrote:


I'm not advocating for pandering. I am advocating for focusing on other issues. Fighting Trump on union rights is easier than fighting trump on immigration. 7K asylum seekers isn't the goal. midterms and 2020 are the goal.



I think we simply disagree on the importance of ethical purity. I think ethics can only hurt us sometimes. You advocate for being the best, most ethical person you can be, always. I don't. I think the only thing that actually matters is control of the government. Focusing on anything smaller than that is short sighted. I will gladly toss 7K asylum seekers under the bus if it means preventing the immeasurably worse impact from 4 more years of Trump.

I see us as having a choice between A and B. You are much more optimistic and think we can have both. Overall, you are much more ethically pure than me. I am incapable of ethical purity and mostly focus on long term control.

On October 23 2018 04:06 Simberto wrote:
I think a lot of people have had enough of realpolitik. Stand by your standpoints, and don't drop them if the slightest tactical reason to do so appears. I hope that voters will support that behaviour.

That being said, i agree that setting other topics than immigration is important. Don't let the right dictate what you talk about. Set your own topics. At least in Germany, a lot of people are tired of immigration as a constant topic, and wish that politicians would focus more on other topics that they care about. Also drop the ever tiring social justice topics as a constant. That doesn't mean drop the agenda. Just don't constantly talk about them.

In the US, you could talk about workers rights or healthcare, or the ecology, or better broadband connections without monopolies, which a lot of people should care about. But that would probably get you branded as a commie.

On October 23 2018 04:13 farvacola wrote:
See, now that's a more tenable position since it doesn't require that Dems totally ignore our basic responsibility to provide shelter to those who seek it. Dems don't need to run on immigration at the expense of other topics in order to convey a message that avoids the pitfalls of totally backing off any and all pro-immigrant positions. Pivoting towards issues that may play better is rather different than asserting that Dems should basically say the same thing Bannon does when he stands in front of white nationalists while stoking their fear of the coming demographic apocalypse.

“The dems fucked up. This is now, or soon will be, a declared National Emergency and probably an act of war. GEOTUS will activate all sorts of wartime powers and various EOs will kick in. This horde is now a group of enemy combatants conducting an invasion and anyone aiding them is subject to treason.”

“I’m concerned about how this will all go down - what actions will the military use to prevent entry into the US? What happens when they reach our border and attempt to invade our country as a giant mob? This is an invading force and deadly force, on a mass scale, may be necessary. Could get very ugly.

“Wars have been started over less. We've put up with Mexico's ridiculousness for decades. From their intentionally unmitigated stream of illegal immigration, to their kidnapping of U.S. citizens, to their fostering of drug cartels, to their bold faced corruption and misuse of our aid.
Not only should all existing aid, trade, and travel agreements with Mexico et al. be nullified, but sanctions and even an embargo should be placed. This is a Cuban Missle Crisis level threat to our nation. If they don't like it, annexation is always on the table. Look at how quickly we dealt with Panama and Grenada. Mexico now poses a greater existential threat to the U.S. than the DPRK..”

“Don't let them in, no matter what. They are fake asylum seekers. They are invaders. I don't get why we bend over backwards for Foreign Nationals. Shut them out, and if they cross the border stop them with force.”

“Keep your people in your own country, third worlders. We don't want them here. The days of blind generosity and unlimited clemency are over. America isn't stupid anymore.”

On October 23 2018 05:05 Plansix wrote:
I’ve seen and even heard a few equally uneducated, ignorant and uninformed commentaries on the subject. I have zero interest in the Democrats feeding that beast even a little bit. Just call Trump and the conservatives what they are: Hysterical fear mongers that are afraid of 7000 unarmed people walking across a desert.

On October 23 2018 05:32 mierin wrote:
Why is the US responsible for them in the first place? They have to walk all the way here, and can't apply for asylum in any of the countries along the way?

It's not fear mongering, it's just a little off (to me) to set a precedent of accepting mass migrations like this.

On October 23 2018 05:32 mierin wrote:
Why is the US responsible for them in the first place? They have to walk all the way here, and can't apply for asylum in any of the countries along the way?

It's not fear mongering, it's just a little off (to me) to set a precedent of accepting mass migrations like this.

On October 23 2018 05:49 Plansix wrote:

It is fair to critique other countries for not helping them. But at the end of the day, we can only do that if we are taking them in and helping. If not, our critique is worthless.