EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 672
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
While only tangentially relevant to what's happening now, that is all to say that independent actions among high ranking unelected officials do not undermine the principles of representative democracy and can in many instances strengthen them. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 05 2018 23:10 farvacola wrote: How much power unelected executive civil servants have and the scope of that power are very much unsettled, constantly changing concepts that tend to reflect the management style of whomever is in office. The idea behind appointing "the right people" can easily involve broad delegations of authority and, historically, many of the "best" White House cabinets were full of appointees that fit that mold (think Seward under Lincoln and Hull under FDR). While only tangentially relevant to what's happening now, that is all to say that independent actions among high ranking unelected officials do not undermine the principles of representative democracy and can in many instances strengthen them. This brings back reading about the final days of Nixon, where he was just in the drinking in the White House and the generals were having frank discussions with the Secretary of Defense about what to do if he ordered them to attack another country. Many historians cited it as a willful break down in the chain of command, but I always saw it as democracy and civil service in action. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On September 05 2018 23:00 JimmiC wrote: Point taken, it still disturbs me that people are are taking it into their own hands to make these kind of decisions. Sure there will be times when I agree, and times when the majority of Americans agree, but there will be other times when they don't. There is a reason they are not meant to have this level of power. well, people aren't responsible enough to call out an insane person for what they are and act on it (especially given the high price it can entail). There's more than enough documentation to that effect. Sometimes there simply is no good answer. Sure, the lower level staff may not be meant to have this level of power; but the president is also meant to be fit for office. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On September 05 2018 23:18 Plansix wrote: This brings back reading about the final days of Nixon, where he was just in the drinking in the White House and the generals were having frank discussions with the Secretary of Defense about what to do if he ordered them to attack another country. Many historians cited it as a willful break down in the chain of command, but I always saw it as democracy and civil service in action. People are the ultimate checks and balances. Same reason they had a bunch of people involved in launching an ICBM - some parts are automated/ mechanized sure, but there's always a guy (or guys) who has to press the final button and at that moment it is his choice and his alone. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22343 Posts
On September 05 2018 23:00 JimmiC wrote: Remember that these people were hired by Trump. A competent President wouldn't fill the WH with people who try to protect the country from himself this way.Point taken, it still disturbs me that people are are taking it into their own hands to make these kind of decisions. Sure there will be times when I agree, and times when the majority of Americans agree, but there will be other times when they don't. There is a reason they are not meant to have this level of power. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11826 Posts
On September 05 2018 23:27 Gorsameth wrote: Remember that these people were hired by Trump. A competent President wouldn't fill the WH with people who try to protect the country from himself this way. This is the crux of the issue. Those are not some people that were forced onto Trump. They are the people Trump selected (Or he selected the people who selected them). However you look at it, this comes back to Trump. So there are only two possible interpretations: A) Trump selected people who sabotage him. Doesn't sound like a very competent thing to do for the person who would get "the best people". B) Those actually are the best people, and they do the job that they are supposed to do. Sadly, that job entails working around the president, not with the president. Trump still doesn't look good in this, but at least he was competent enough to hire the people who protect the country from himself. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Source: Some video: Edit: added a caveat and cleaned up some language. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On September 06 2018 01:25 On_Slaught wrote: Sen Leahy just accused Kavanaugh of lying in his DC Court hearings. Basically he says that Kavanaugh was involved in a stolen email scheme involving Leahy himself and he lied about it to Congress. If proven this should be automatically disqualifying. Crazy scene. Kavanaugh looked very uneasy and as soon as Leahy was done Grassley and Graham went into immediate damage control. Source: https://twitter.com/SenatorLeahy/status/1037357537006379009 Some video: https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1037362626131574786 And here we see what is likely just a small % of the total reason an insane amount of stuff is being withheld. And why they are trying to shoot this thing straight through. Time is not on their side. If everything was out in the open, Kavanaugh would not be up for discussion. This is just so sad to watch. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
EDIT: I want to express my appreciation for the word "feckless" being brought into mainstream vocabulary as a result of this administration. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 06 2018 02:31 ticklishmusic wrote: At this point it's more than clear that Kavanaugh is a feckless, shady piece of shit. But mathematically, he's still almost guaranteed to be confirmed because the Republicans hold the Senate. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if after midterms Thomas decided to retire so Republicans could replace him. All the more reason to get it out there now and make sure there is endless ammo of the Republicans do confirm him. Especially given all the dark money behind blocking Obama in 2016 and the last two nominations. If Thomas retires as well, just destroy illusion that the court isn’t being stacked with feckless political operatives. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 06 2018 02:37 On_Slaught wrote: Thomas is the worst. I dont mind him retiring since at least that gives us a chance of getting somebody less fucked up. I’ll take the devil I know that also doesn’t speak. God knows what nightmare Trump would appoint. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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