Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On August 04 2018 21:02 Sermokala wrote: A smart democratic successor would act as if trump never existed and operate as if they took over from obama. Trumps legitimacy and power has always come from people overreacting to him. See stealthblue calling America a failed state.
Ignoring the causes and core issues has been a losing strategy for Democrats. Progressives with a populist economic message could help to change that.
Sadly running on 'Bring coal back' and 'minimum wage jobs should feed a family of 6' might get you votes from idiots that believe you but it won't actually help the country.
Democrats have plenty of idea's for these people. But when they set up training programs to help out the sons of coal miners to find a new job they use it to learn to become a coal miner instead.
These people don't want a realistic solution, they want a time machine.
It's not so much that they want the coal mining jobs back (some of them might) it's that they want the straightforward good paying work back. You're not wrong though that they'd be better off building a time machine than thinking they are going to vote their way out of it with our 2 parties.
I think the problem also is that the creative destruction brought about by capitalism, while clearly causing profits to skyrocket, bringing a billion people out of poverty in china etc, is tearing apart the fabric of social life that was formed by occupation in America and other post-industrial countries. The 'straightforward' element of the good paying work can't be underrated - if people are having to retrain every few years, rather than every generation, to work in new and different sectors, the social identity and security that work provided is lost. The anger from this process is undoubtedly expressed at the ballot box.
That's more the creative destruction wrought by technology than by capitalism. otherwise I agree. It's a pity that the anger often expresses itself in destructive ways rather than constructive ways.
Technological development is how capitalism at this stage of its development continues to sustain itself - the two can't be entangled.
And yes, the idea that the NSA or whatever has been infiltrated by 'globalists' literally makes no sense unless you believe it's the Jews
(I'm assuming you typoed and meant disentangled) I disagree; I think the two can be sufficiently disentangled for it to be a useful and clear point that the changing in the social fabric due to changes in industry is a result of technological changes foremost, though capitalism also has some effect on it in pushin the changes forward rather than sticking with economic waste for the sake of social order.
I did, the perils of using a phone to post. I think the rapidity of innovation would be nowhere near what it is now without the impetus for growth that capitalism demands - that innovation not just being technological, but also in terms of 'more efficient' company organisation or whatever that results in people losing their jobs. The pace at which modern life is altering and the demands of the free market are closely related, and is, really, the key contradiction at the heart of American neoconservativism.
more efficient company organization per se has very little effect on job loss as far as I know, what sources do you have on it? It's mostly tech replacing people (or shifting them to other positions) that I've heard about. all societies like growth, capitalist or not; people like stuff. If there's a way for people to get more stuff they tend to want that. Soviet Union had a lot of technological invention, and I'd say they weren't capitalist. I suspect the rapidity of innovation is a function of how much money is spent on research and development; and it's simply the case that in modern times it's possible to spend a lot more on that than in the past. (and that it has been steadily growing since the start of the industrial revolution).
I'd also ask what you're comparing capitalism to for this discussion? and/or how you're defining it. Basically, since I'm disputing how much to attribute to capitalism as opposed to technological change, I want to get a clearer sense of what it would mean (in your perspective) to establish that the cause should be attributed one way or the other.
I'm not clear what your point on neoconservativism is, but while it may be interesting, it seems irrelevant to the specific point I'm arguing on, and I'd rather not go off on a tangent.
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
So basically, Kwark called it in his last sentence.
And I'm sorry, but I'm gonna need it explained, how a nation doing something for the global good necessarily precludes that something also being good for the country. Because Trump and his ilk keep trying to paint this thing as some kind of zero-sum game, and I'm not convinced that's true. The issue keeps getting painted in such abstract terms as "interests of the nation" versus "global interests", as though they are concrete terms, and have no overlap. You're making quite a leap by presenting that to be the case.
I'm sorry, but why should I bother providing you any explanation when literally everything in your post is factually incorrect, demonstrating zero effort on your part to grasp the issue? Let's just go through it line by line.
So basically, Kwark called it in his last sentence.
No, definitely not, which was the whole point of my post.
Because Trump and his ilk keep trying to paint this thing as some kind of zero-sum game,
This is a misconstruction Trump's foreign policy. He doesn't see trade as a zero sum game. If he did, he wouldn't be negotiating trade deals in the first place.
The issue keeps getting painted in such abstract terms as "interests of the nation" versus "global interests", as though they are concrete terms, and have no overlap
No, this is not what the issue is. The issue isn't whether there is overlap. This issue is how the priorities should be ordered.
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
As usual, you're imagining things. Come back when you have shed your delusions.
I have a hard time reconciling a love of free markets and a willingness to limit their scope to your own nation. Unless we are in full economic fascism mode (which maybe we are, that's not a pejorative in this context) I don't see how that works.
On August 06 2018 10:18 Nebuchad wrote: I have a hard time reconciling a love of free markets and a willingness to limit their scope to your own nation. Unless we are in full economic fascism mode (which maybe we are, that's not a pejorative in this context) I don't see how that works.
Does the US (or any other nation) have free trade with China? How about even “fair” trade?
Regardless of what globalist has become in the larger vernacular, it has been used by anti-Semites for far before it reached the wider public. Much like everything else out of the alt right, it is just rebranded bigotry.
Edit: no one has “fair trade” with the US either. Especially. Ow that we are fighting with nations like Canada, who are super into buying our stuff.
On August 06 2018 10:18 Nebuchad wrote: I have a hard time reconciling a love of free markets and a willingness to limit their scope to your own nation. Unless we are in full economic fascism mode (which maybe we are, that's not a pejorative in this context) I don't see how that works.
Does the US (or any other nation) have free trade with China? How about even “fair” trade?
I have no idea. That doesn't really matter, the vision that you're offering isn't limited to China.
On August 06 2018 10:18 Nebuchad wrote: I have a hard time reconciling a love of free markets and a willingness to limit their scope to your own nation. Unless we are in full economic fascism mode (which maybe we are, that's not a pejorative in this context) I don't see how that works.
Does the US (or any other nation) have free trade with China? How about even “fair” trade?
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
How do the globalists your talking about justify trumps support of Israel if they hate jews? I'm interested in the mental gymnastics.
On August 06 2018 10:23 Plansix wrote: Regardless of what globalist has become in the larger vernacular, it has been used by anti-Semites for far before it reached the wider public. Much like everything else out of the alt right, it is just rebranded bigotry.
That use of globalist is just as stupid as Kwark’s attempts to imply that it is my usage. We are in an era in which nationalism is rising in response to globalization and challenging many elements of the current world order. Saying that is just about the Jews is asinine.
On August 05 2018 23:49 farvacola wrote: Yeah, Trump's statements regarding his knowledge of that meeting must be driving his legal team nuts, he's getting dangerously close to making legally significant admissions.
Its hilarious lol.
It went from "i didn't know about the meeting" to "I didn't know what the meeting was about" to "I didn't know what it was about but it was about adopting rusian children" to "it was about getting intel on Clinton" And when I saw him say it on tv,he didn't seem worried in the slightest about this whole meeting and what it might lead to. And you have to admit,even as a trump hater,that it is starting to get funny. "hey we got something about trump,he knew about the meeting" trump says "I didn't knew about the meeting" Later it turns out trump knew but Nothing changed,apearently knowing about the meeting means absolutely nothing. Stage 2 "hey we got something about trump,he not only knew about the meeting he also knew what it was about" And trump says "I knew about the meeting but i didn't knew what the meeting was about" Later it turns out trump not only knew about the meeting but also knew about a few of the things discussed. Apearently knowing what the meeting was about means absolutely nothing. stage3 "hey we got something about trump,he not only knew about the meeting but he knew that it was about getting info on Hillary Clinton" trump says" ya it was about Clinton,happens all the time in politics" And now we are at the finale of this meeting drama which has entertained cnn for months. Trump knew and knew that it was about Clinton,and apearently it still is no big deal and can not be used against him. He is 100% right in calling cnn fake news. Cnn has let people believe that this meeting was the thing of the century,watergate lvl stuff,and even in the end when it all turns out to be true it still means absolutely nothing. Best journalism ever. I thought he would at least be replaced as a president if it all turned out to be true,maybe even high treason. But in the end it turns out to be completely insignificant,such a fail.
And before people put me in the hate cnn love trump camp,yes I think cnn are idiots so is trump but this battle I call for trump,unless of course it turns out that knowing about this meeting and knowing about the subject of it will be the end of his presidency,which I sincerely doubt.
On August 06 2018 10:23 Plansix wrote: Regardless of what globalist has become in the larger vernacular, it has been used by anti-Semites for far before it reached the wider public. Much like everything else out of the alt right, it is just rebranded bigotry.
That use of globalist is just as stupid as Kwark’s attempts to imply that it is my usage. We are in an era in which nationalism is rising in response to globalization and challenging many elements of the current world order. Saying that is just about the Jews is asinine.
Nationalism is rising for a number of reason, including the internet, non traditional media, billionaires funding anti government political movements to cut taxes and new platform for xenophobia to take hold and rebrand itself.
To quote a good show that ends poorly: This has all happened before, it will all happen again.
Also, Trump's trade policies are basically a rehash of mercantilism. Which is zero sum in nature because its whole assumption consists of "if I import more than I export, I'm losing to another country and that cannot do". Just because you are willing to negotiate trade deals, which can be summed up as "let's both drop our tariffs to zero so I can ram exports into your country", doesn't mean you don't view it as a zero sum game lol.
On August 06 2018 10:23 Plansix wrote: Regardless of what globalist has become in the larger vernacular, it has been used by anti-Semites for far before it reached the wider public. Much like everything else out of the alt right, it is just rebranded bigotry.
That use of globalist is just as stupid as Kwark’s attempts to imply that it is my usage. We are in an era in which nationalism is rising in response to globalization and challenging many elements of the current world order. Saying that is just about the Jews is asinine.
Nationalism is rising for a number of reason, including the internet, non traditional media, billionaires funding anti government political movements to cut taxes and new platform for xenophobia to take hold and rebrand itself.
To quote a good show that ends poorly: This has all happened before, it will all happen again.
Mainly for the same reason that socialism is rising: because economic liberalism is vulnerable right now, it looks like it's failing - or bound to fail soon.
I kind of wish I had gotten a real answer from xDaunt on this one :/ if there's a way to reconcile free markets and an increased focus on the nation when it comes to the economy I'd like to know what it is cause I can't quite see how that works.
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
As usual, you're imagining things. Come back when you have shed your delusions.
Globalist is used interchangeably with ((())). Breitbart even ran a front page story with globe emojis used on either side of Cohn's name. It's no different from rootless cosmopolitan, or any other dog whistle terms used through the years. Take a long look at the people that your fellow twitter alt-righters called ((())) or globalists. They all have something in common. Take a look at what the Jewish Chronicle has to say https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/what-does-the-term-globalist-mean-when-it-comes-to-jews-gary-cohn-donald-trump-1.461072
Here's Alex Jones talking about the secret banking cartels behind the globalists.
Trump had this to say
Hillary Clinton meets in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty in order to enrich these global financial powers
Globalist means Jew, and Jew with a hard J. It always has. The facts aren't going to change, and they're not within your control to reinterpret. Globalists, and their secret international banking and media empire, aren't going to cease to be a code phrase. There overlap between people called globalists and people with Jewish heritage isn't going to disappear if you deny it for long enough. And nor is the overlap between Nazism and those decrying the secret globalist plot to destroy America. The question is what are you going to do about this?
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
How do the globalists your talking about justify trumps support of Israel if they hate jews? I'm interested in the mental gymnastics.
It's not my mental gymnastics, it's theirs, I'm not a Nazi who supports Trump and has to reconcile his incoherent policy decisions with my own Nazi ideology. Why not ask xDaunt this question?
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
How do the globalists your talking about justify trumps support of Israel if they hate jews? I'm interested in the mental gymnastics.
Helping Israel fulfills a biblical end of times prophecy. It's basically an end of the world cult affecting international politics. Exciting stuff. No I'm not exaggerating.
Nationalism in usa is kinda interesting and I have always wondered about it. The population is made out of so many different nationalities and cultural back grounds,how does nationalism work in a country like this.
Btw,more then halve of the americans believe in some sort of "deep state" with a hidden agenda I read today. It now is the "saint" people who are a minority with their world vieuw.
On August 06 2018 10:54 pmh wrote: Nationalism in usa is kinda interesting and I have always wondered about it. The population is made out of so many different nationalities and cultural back grounds,how does nationalism work in a country like this.
On August 06 2018 05:29 KwarK wrote: Globalists has always been Jews lol. The secret group of people within every nation who don't belong to the race and don't share the culture/religion/language/blood of the nation but are instead loyal to their international fraternal brotherhood. Also they control banking. And they're working together to destroy nations through creating global governments etc. It's literally the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
xDaunt's shtick has always been that he's not a Nazi, he just says all the same things as them. This is just another example. He won't say that globalist means Jews, but he will agree that the (((globalists))) like Soros are the enemy.
Uh, no. Globalists definitely does not mean Jews in the context of globalism vs nationalism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is really missing the big picture. Globalists include anyone who seeks to subordinate the interests of the nation state to global interests and institutions. This is a very broad category, though George Soros is certainly in it.
Your disagreement can be summed up as “you’re forgetting the Jew-lovers, it’s not just Jews”. Seriously, take an honest look at the rhetoric of the rest of the anti-globalist crowd sometime. None of its new.
As usual, you're imagining things. Come back when you have shed your delusions.
Globalist is used interchangeably with ((())). Breitbart even ran a front page story with globe emojis used on either side of Cohn's name. It's no different from rootless cosmopolitan, or any other dog whistle terms used through the years. Take a long look at the people that your fellow twitter alt-righters called ((())) or globalists. They all have something in common. Take a look at what the Jewish Chronicle has to say https://www.thejc.com/comment/comment/what-does-the-term-globalist-mean-when-it-comes-to-jews-gary-cohn-donald-trump-1.461072
Hillary Clinton meets in secret with international banks to plot the destruction of U.S. sovereignty in order to enrich these global financial powers
Globalist means Jew, and Jew with a hard J. It always has. The facts aren't going to change, and they're not within your control to reinterpret. Globalists, and their secret international banking and media empire, aren't going to cease to be a code phrase. There overlap between people called globalists and people with Jewish heritage isn't going to disappear if you deny it for long enough. And nor is the overlap between Nazism and those decrying the secret globalist plot to destroy America. The question is what are you going to do about this?
This post is one gigantic straw man. You’re shameless.
EPT
