|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 12:37 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 12:28 Plansix wrote:
The way you just did, talk about sovereignty and the right to self governance without using buzz words like globalist. Globalist is a pejorative, like SJW, vague is meaning and can be applied to anyone to expressing the “wrong” views. It isn’t a term that grew out of academia or any profession, but on the far right wing place of the internet. It's pejorative, sure, but is it anti-semitic? Pejoratives aren't meaningless, they're just simplistic categorization. And saying there is a more nuanced way of discussing self governance is different than an accusation of hating Jews. Like, aren't most of the G8 protestors also anti-globalism and also super left wing/ outright anarchist?
Super left wing people are often also pretty anti-semitic. But globalism and globalist aren't interchangeable. Globalism is generally used to attack companies like McDonalds etc while globalist is generally used to attack a group that is completely identical to the secret Jewish cabal conspiracy.
|
On August 06 2018 12:37 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 12:28 Plansix wrote:
The way you just did, talk about sovereignty and the right to self governance without using buzz words like globalist. Globalist is a pejorative, like SJW, vague is meaning and can be applied to anyone to expressing the “wrong” views. It isn’t a term that grew out of academia or any profession, but on the far right wing place of the internet. It's pejorative, sure, but is it anti-semitic? Pejoratives aren't meaningless, they're just simplistic categorization. And saying there is a more nuanced way of discussing self governance is different than an accusation of hating Jews. Like, aren't most of the G8 protestors also anti-globalism and also super left wing/ outright anarchist?
It isn’t hard to see how idiotic this argument that globalist is necessarily anti-Semitic is. Just google globalist vs nationalist, and you will see a ton of articles from major publications using that dichotomy as I did.
|
On August 06 2018 12:37 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 12:28 Plansix wrote:
The way you just did, talk about sovereignty and the right to self governance without using buzz words like globalist. Globalist is a pejorative, like SJW, vague is meaning and can be applied to anyone to expressing the “wrong” views. It isn’t a term that grew out of academia or any profession, but on the far right wing place of the internet. It's pejorative, sure, but is it anti-semitic? Pejoratives aren't meaningless, they're just simplistic categorization. And saying there is a more nuanced way of discussing self governance is different than an accusation of hating Jews.
Is “rootless cosmopolitan” inherently anti Semitic? No. Is it anti Semitic because a bunch a bunch of anti Semites used it to discribe the Jews they would go on to kill? Yep. It is about who uses the phrase and why they decided to use it. And not ever uses it in that fashion. But there a very real subset of people that use the term as short hand for “the Jews”. And that subset marched in last year and kills someone.
The worst bigots in modern history rarely said they hated the people they would oppress and kill in plain language. They rarely called for the deaths of the people they hated.
|
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 12:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 12:37 Falling wrote:On August 06 2018 12:28 Plansix wrote:
The way you just did, talk about sovereignty and the right to self governance without using buzz words like globalist. Globalist is a pejorative, like SJW, vague is meaning and can be applied to anyone to expressing the “wrong” views. It isn’t a term that grew out of academia or any profession, but on the far right wing place of the internet. It's pejorative, sure, but is it anti-semitic? Pejoratives aren't meaningless, they're just simplistic categorization. And saying there is a more nuanced way of discussing self governance is different than an accusation of hating Jews. Like, aren't most of the G8 protestors also anti-globalism and also super left wing/ outright anarchist? It isn’t hard to see how idiotic this argument that globalist is necessarily anti-Semitic is. Just google globalist vs nationalist, and you will a ton of articles from major publications using that dichotomy as I did.
When Trump talked about how a shadowy cabal of globalists bankers were the enemy of the American people it's not hard to see who he's talking about. It's not like there's a bunch of shadowy banking cabal conspiracy theories to choose from. We're not torn between deciding whether it was the Jewish conspiracy theory or the one where the world is secretly run by the Irish.
|
Most of Scandinavian culture and the ability to drink milk has been used by white supremacists but you have yo draw the line, at least for self respect, in saying that all people who share something that white supremacists havr coopted are white supremacists.
Being against a global community doesn't make you a nazi kwark globalist doesn't always mean jew. You're way off the reservation this time.
|
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 12:53 Sermokala wrote:
Most of Scandinavian culture and the ability to drink milk has been used by white supremacists but you have yo draw the line, at least for self respect, in saying that all people who share something that white supremacists havr coopted are white supremacists.
Being against a global community doesn't make you a nazi kwark globalist doesn't always mean jew. You're way off the reservation this time.
?? how is drinking milk like antisemitism?
It's not that opposing globalization makes you an antisemite. It's taking antisemitic rhetoric, replacing the word Jew with the word "globalist", and then making the rest of the speech unchanged that makes you an antisemite. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion has been taken, "replace all"ed Jew with globalist, and used largely without further modifications as alt-right rhetoric. It's still the same antisemitic conspiracy theory, even if you start using airquotes "globalist" every time the word Jew was previously used.
If you find yourself talking about a shadowy group of people who control banking and the media and who want to destroy America with their propaganda it's really not important what word you use for them, there's just the one conspiracy theory there. You're talking about the Jewish conspiracy theory, even if you dance around the word Jew.
|
Drinking milk isn't anti semitism and I didn't say it was. I said white supremacists use it. Im sure gh can tell you how drinking milk is racist if you're that interested.
Basic argumentation doesn't get tainted just because they're used by "the wrong people". We get that you think xdaunt is a nazi. Its old hat at this point to continue to ignore anything he says in order to repeat the same lines over and over again. You don't even respond to his posts anymore. If thats all you are going to contribute then stop wasting peoples time.
Xdaunt isnt talking about any conspiracy theories. You're the one who is incredibly informed about them and how they all are about jews. Can we just have a basic argument about globalism vs nationalism without accusing people you disagree with are just nazis?
|
White supremacists breathe oxygen too. They've even adopted the Mesoamerican culture and ability of enjoying chocolate!
I think Plansix makes a good point, words often have different connotations depending on who it comes from (socialist, liberal etc). I am very fortunate not to have met any far left anti-Semites. :D
|
I want to have an argument about if the un right to self determination extends itself to a mandate of heaven approch to world governments or if it implies an inherent capitalist democratic implication for all involved.
|
5930 Posts
Speaking of tariffs, turns out the steel tariffs might just be crony capitalism at work.
Basically, two of America’s biggest steel manufacturers have deep ties with the Trump Administration. Because supply chains are global these days, there's a good chance you're going to become uncompetitive if you can't secure intermediate parts. So in theory you can lodge an exception request but the Whitehouse also lets American companies submit a counter request. Turns out a good number of these counter-requests come from these two companies and they're always successful when lodged.
Now, there's a good example of why this is sort of nasty for smaller businesses. In the article, Borusan Mannesmann (Turkish company with manufacturing facilities in the US) wanted an exception on steel pipe imports and argued that they needed some time to stabilize their supply chains. They aimed to do that by building an actual factory in Texas so they wouldn't need to import their pipes anymore. Instead, they're told to kick rocks.
There's been about 1,300 steel exclusions, 1,000 are to a Chinese owned company that makes drill bits lol. To everyone who can't get exceptions, the response has been stuff like “Nucor can offer a substitute for the requested product out of stock immediately".
|
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 13:14 Sermokala wrote:
Drinking milk isn't anti semitism and I didn't say it was. I said white supremacists use it. Im sure gh can tell you how drinking milk is racist if you're that interested.
Basic argumentation doesn't get tainted just because they're used by "the wrong people". We get that you think xdaunt is a nazi. Its old hat at this point to continue to ignore anything he says in order to repeat the same lines over and over again. You don't even respond to his posts anymore. If thats all you are going to contribute then stop wasting peoples time.
Xdaunt isnt talking about any conspiracy theories. You're the one who is incredibly informed about them and how they all are about jews. Can we just have a basic argument about globalism vs nationalism without accusing people you disagree with are just nazis?
There isn't an argument about globalism, you're clearly not understanding that globalism and (((globalist))) aren't the same thing.
Also for some reason you seem to feel like you're being persecuted here. I don't know why. As far as I know you're not a member of the alt-right or a Nazi. I've never cared much about your posts or beliefs but from those I have read you appear to be an entirely unremarkable centrist. I don't recall you having made many posts opposing globalism but now you're here insisting that if I'm calling out people who used (((globalist))) then I'm somehow also attacking you.
If you do subscribe to the belief that there is a secret group of international bankers out to destroy America (like Trump claimed in one of his speeches) then yeah, you're probably one of the "wrong people". But I don't think you do, I think you desperately want me to think you do so you can feel personally affronted by it.
|
Xdaunt doesn't use (((globalist))) and you have a fetish for saying he does and insisting any conservative posters are nazies.
Do you even see how insulting your posts are? You don't even put effort into them anymore. We've known eachother on this forum for years and years and you "never cared for my posts" and I'm an "unremarkable centrist"?
I've always been a conservative in this thread from its inception and we've had many arguments. Attacking xdaunt for making the same arguments I make and ignoring me out of hand beacuse one of us isnt tired of your shit. Being conservative doesnt make me a bad person kwark. Thinking that makes you a bad person.
|
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 13:48 Sermokala wrote:
Xdaunt doesn't use (((globalist))) and you have a fetish for saying he does and insisting any conservative posters are nazies.
Do you even see how insulting your posts are? You don't even put effort into them anymore. We've known eachother on this forum for years and years and you "never cared for my posts" and I'm an "unremarkable centrist"?
I've always been a conservative in this thread from its inception and we've had many arguments. Attacking xdaunt for making the same arguments I make and ignoring me out of hand beacuse one of us isnt tired of your shit. Being conservative doesnt make me a bad person kwark. Thinking that makes you a bad person.
This shit is what I'm talking about. Nobody is calling you a bad person. You just really want me to have called you a bad person because, presumably as some kind of lingering fetish from our time together in EVE, it evokes strange feelings in you that you can't quite explain. I didn't know you identified as a conservative, and I couldn't name a single conservative viewpoint that you hold. I didn't care enough to learn any. The one thing that I have noted about your posts in this topic is that you desperately identify as a victim.
Plansix will say that his family relies on Obamacare and that people trying to repeal Obamacare are trying to kill his family. Then you, who as far as I know don't want to repeal Obamacare (although again, your posts are so completely unmemorable that I can't be sure) will jump in and say "are you saying that I want to kill your family, I feel personally attacked by this". That's the only memorable thing I really know about you from your posts in this topic. That you have a desperate need to jump into an exchange between two other people and insist that you feel personally attacked by it. This is just the latest example out of dozens, and I refuse to be a part of this masturbatory game of yours.
|
Christ you really are just an ass. You can't even summon basic levels of decency. I didn't think anyone could be harder to have a conversation with then gh but you can't go the slightest bit without being an ass.
I thought our history ment that I should give you the benifit of the doubt for what you did for me but im sorry I ever thought you were any better then me.
No kwark I'm not trying to be a victim. You bully people and I defend them. Just beacuse you didn't do something to me doesn't make it masturbatory for me to object.
|
United States43677 Posts
I went back and read a bunch of your posts and I still don’t know on what grounds I’m expected to have identified you as a notable voice of conservative opposition in this thread. You’ve voiced opposition to the blowing up of trade deals, to Fox News, to Trump on countless occasions, to gerrymandering, to Russian interference and so forth. In one post you mentioned that you’re a Christian which is entirely unremarkable given it’s a majority Christian country and you didn’t follow it with “God hates fags”. All reading your posts again did was reinforce my prior impression, you’re about as conservative as I am, but desperately wish someone was trying to shame you for it.
Given the choice I think you’d happily support a continuation of the old neoliberal status quo, free trade, light regulation, and support for the traditional establishment against the GHs of the world. That puts you in the Hillary Clinton camp. There’s the personal attack you do desperately seemed to want, I hope you appreciate the research I had to do to come up with it.
|
United States43677 Posts
On August 06 2018 14:22 Sermokala wrote:
I thought our history ment that I should give you the benifit of the doubt for what you did for me but im sorry I ever thought you were any better then me.
Beyond your ID I honestly don’t remember you from EVE at all. People came and went, it was years ago. I remember motbob and Penguins from the first year (and VoV but he was a permanent fixture), Karah, Michael, Ueber, Caelum, Johnny, Sarg from later on, Jed, Tofu, Aeth, Firebolt, and Chessur near the end, and a bunch others who I probably owe apologies to for leaving them off the list (like Body_Shield who I just remembered). But it was hundreds of people in total over like a decade. There are probably a few dozen that I could tell you some fun stories of good times with (with Michael and VoV topping the charts for coolest stunts they pulled in that game) but for everyone else it’s a blur.
I’m sorry it meant more to you than it did me. Now I’m putting thought into it there were some people that I only remember due to a specific interaction like Hareeb who complained in teamspeak one night about how annoying the sound of his neighbour beating his wife was and how she should shut up. There are worse things than to be unremarkable. That’s more or less how I feel about your posts here, there are some posters I remember because they’re so heinous, and you’re not one of those. The one thing I remembered from the topics was how every now and then you’d take offence by proxy.
|
Is this still the US Politics thread? Because the last few posts felt more like a "we're ending our relationship meltdown" 
|
|
|
United States43677 Posts
The problem being that the ones who use it as a dog whistle aren’t some irrelevant minority and include the current president. It’s not hard to tell the difference either. If someone talks about the responsibilities of a global citizen in the context of global warming or whatever, they’re trying to express the idea that environmental catastrophes don’t respect national borders. If someone talks about how globalists control the media, they mean Jews. Old school Classical Liberal (Randian for confused Americans) says it, they’re probably mad about borders infringing upon the free movement of goods and people. Alt-righter says it in a rant about cultural Marxists indoctrinating the youth, Jews again.
If it sounds like a regular Nazi speech with the word Jew switched for globalist, that’s what it is. It’s a pretty simple rule, nobody innocently using the word is going to run afoul of that.
|
On August 06 2018 15:38 KwarK wrote:The problem being that the ones who use it as a dog whistle aren’t some irrelevant minority and include the current president. It’s not hard to tell the difference either. If someone talks about the responsibilities of a global citizen in the context of global warming or whatever, they’re trying to express the idea that environmental catastrophes don’t respect national borders. If someone talks about how globalists control the media, they mean Jews.
It's quite clear to any fluent English speaker that the term "global" has many uses and possible connotations, but it's also not very hard for those not so informed about the alt-right to assume that the word globalist is simply a variation of the word globalism, which dictionary.com defines as "the attitude or policy of placing the interests of the entire world above those of individual nations", a definition which of course doesn't really evoke anti-Semitism.
The connotations of these words definitely depend on their context, unlike, say, an out-and-out racial slur. If someone from Hong Kong or South Korea used the terms globalism and globalists interchangeably, I wouldn't suspect that they were irrationally prejudiced against a specific group of people with ties to some country in the middle-east. But then again this is the US Politics Thread, so it makes sense to expect everyone to be aware of the cultural context.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
