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Have to say that the police seemed to have done a decent job in Portland today. Avoided catastrophe at least. I really dig that Antifa showed up with people dressed as clowns and a brass band lol.
+ Show Spoiler +PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Small scuffles broke out Saturday as police in Portland, Oregon, deployed "flash bang" devices and other means to disperse hundreds of right-wing and self-described anti-fascist protesters. Just before 2 p.m., police in riot gear ordered people to leave an area downtown, saying demonstrators had thrown rocks and bottles at officers. "Get out of the street," police announced via loudspeaker. There were arrests and some injuries, but it wasn't immediately clear how many. A reporter for The Oregonian/OregonLive was bloodied when he was struck by a projectile. Eder Campuzano said later on Twitter he was "okay." Demonstrators aligned with Patriot Prayer and an affiliated group, the Proud Boys, gathered around mid-day in a riverfront park. Hundreds of demonstrators faced them from across the street, holding banners and signs with opposition messages such as "Alt right scum not welcome in Portland." Some chanted "Nazis go home." Officers stood in the middle of the four-lane boulevard, essentially forming a wall to keep the two sides separated. The counter-protesters were made up of a coalition of labor unions, immigrant rights advocates, democratic socialists and other groups. They included people dressed as clowns and a brass band blaring music. The rally organized by Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson was the third to roil Portland this summer. Two previous events ended in bloody fistfights and riots, and one counter-protester was sent to the hospital with a skull fracture. This time, Gibson changed the venue from a federal plaza outside U.S. District Court to a waterfront park so some of his Oregon supporters could carry concealed weapons as they demonstrate. Gibson disputed the group's classification by some as a hate group. "We're here to promote freedom and God. That's it," Gibson told Portland TV station KGW while walking with demonstrators. "Our country is getting soft." Protesters saw a significant police presence that included bomb-sniffing dogs and weapons screening checkpoints. In a statement, police said weapons may be seized if there is a violation of law and added that it is illegal in Portland to carry a loaded firearm in public unless a person has a valid Oregon concealed handgun license. Among the things police confiscated were long sticks and homemade shields. Gibson's insistence on bringing his supporters repeatedly to this blue city has crystallized a debate about the limits of free speech in an era of stark political division. Patriot Prayer also has held rallies in many other cities around the U.S. West, including Berkeley, California, that have drawn violent reactions. But the Portland events have taken on outsized significance after a Patriot Prayer sympathizer was charged with fatally stabbing two men who came to the defense of two young black women — one in a hijab — whom the attacker was accused of harassing on a light-rail train in May 2017. A coalition of community organizations and a group representing more than 50 tribes warned of the potential for even greater violence than previous rallies if participants carry guns. It called on officials to denounce what it called "the racist and sexist violence of Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys" and protect the city. Gibson, who is running a long-shot campaign to unseat Democratic U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state, said in a live video on Facebook earlier this week that he won't stop bringing his followers to Portland until they can express their right-wing views without interference. Self-described anti-fascists — or "antifa" — have been organizing anonymously online to confront Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys in the streets. Organizers say that while Patriot Prayer denies being a white supremacist group, it affiliates itself with known white supremacists, white nationalists and neo-Nazi gangs. "Patriot Prayer is continuing to commit violence in our city, and their events are becoming more and more violent," said Effie Baum of Pop Mob, a coalition of community groups organizing the counter-demonstration. "Leaving them a small group to attack in the streets is only going to allow them to perpetuate their violence." Dueling protests a month ago ended with Portland police declaring a riot and arresting four people. A similar Patriot Prayer event on June 4 devolved into fistfights and assaults by both sides as police struggled to keep the groups apart. www.msn.com
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On August 05 2018 09:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 00:46 screamingpalm wrote:On August 04 2018 21:02 Sermokala wrote:
A smart democratic successor would act as if trump never existed and operate as if they took over from obama. Trumps legitimacy and power has always come from people overreacting to him. See stealthblue calling America a failed state. Ignoring the causes and core issues has been a losing strategy for Democrats. Progressives with a populist economic message could help to change that. Sadly running on 'Bring coal back' and 'minimum wage jobs should feed a family of 6' might get you votes from idiots that believe you but it won't actually help the country. Democrats have plenty of idea's for these people. But when they set up training programs to help out the sons of coal miners to find a new job they use it to learn to become a coal miner instead. These people don't want a realistic solution, they want a time machine.
A Green New Deal and a Federal Job Guarantee is a solution. Democrats aren't going to solve such a situation when they are beholden to fossil fuel lobbyists. They bemoan Trumpism, yet fail to see that neoliberal austerity is a major cause of it. Instead, they point fingers and condescendingly laugh at impoverished rural communities that lack resources because of the scarcity narrative they espouse.
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On August 05 2018 10:08 screamingpalm wrote:Have to say that the police seemed to have done a decent job in Portland today. Avoided catastrophe at least. I really dig that Antifa showed up with people dressed as clowns and a brass band lol. + Show Spoiler +PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Small scuffles broke out Saturday as police in Portland, Oregon, deployed "flash bang" devices and other means to disperse hundreds of right-wing and self-described anti-fascist protesters. Just before 2 p.m., police in riot gear ordered people to leave an area downtown, saying demonstrators had thrown rocks and bottles at officers. "Get out of the street," police announced via loudspeaker. There were arrests and some injuries, but it wasn't immediately clear how many. A reporter for The Oregonian/OregonLive was bloodied when he was struck by a projectile. Eder Campuzano said later on Twitter he was "okay." Demonstrators aligned with Patriot Prayer and an affiliated group, the Proud Boys, gathered around mid-day in a riverfront park. Hundreds of demonstrators faced them from across the street, holding banners and signs with opposition messages such as "Alt right scum not welcome in Portland." Some chanted "Nazis go home." Officers stood in the middle of the four-lane boulevard, essentially forming a wall to keep the two sides separated. The counter-protesters were made up of a coalition of labor unions, immigrant rights advocates, democratic socialists and other groups. They included people dressed as clowns and a brass band blaring music. The rally organized by Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson was the third to roil Portland this summer. Two previous events ended in bloody fistfights and riots, and one counter-protester was sent to the hospital with a skull fracture. This time, Gibson changed the venue from a federal plaza outside U.S. District Court to a waterfront park so some of his Oregon supporters could carry concealed weapons as they demonstrate. Gibson disputed the group's classification by some as a hate group. "We're here to promote freedom and God. That's it," Gibson told Portland TV station KGW while walking with demonstrators. "Our country is getting soft." Protesters saw a significant police presence that included bomb-sniffing dogs and weapons screening checkpoints. In a statement, police said weapons may be seized if there is a violation of law and added that it is illegal in Portland to carry a loaded firearm in public unless a person has a valid Oregon concealed handgun license. Among the things police confiscated were long sticks and homemade shields. Gibson's insistence on bringing his supporters repeatedly to this blue city has crystallized a debate about the limits of free speech in an era of stark political division. Patriot Prayer also has held rallies in many other cities around the U.S. West, including Berkeley, California, that have drawn violent reactions. But the Portland events have taken on outsized significance after a Patriot Prayer sympathizer was charged with fatally stabbing two men who came to the defense of two young black women — one in a hijab — whom the attacker was accused of harassing on a light-rail train in May 2017. A coalition of community organizations and a group representing more than 50 tribes warned of the potential for even greater violence than previous rallies if participants carry guns. It called on officials to denounce what it called "the racist and sexist violence of Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys" and protect the city. Gibson, who is running a long-shot campaign to unseat Democratic U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state, said in a live video on Facebook earlier this week that he won't stop bringing his followers to Portland until they can express their right-wing views without interference. Self-described anti-fascists — or "antifa" — have been organizing anonymously online to confront Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys in the streets. Organizers say that while Patriot Prayer denies being a white supremacist group, it affiliates itself with known white supremacists, white nationalists and neo-Nazi gangs. "Patriot Prayer is continuing to commit violence in our city, and their events are becoming more and more violent," said Effie Baum of Pop Mob, a coalition of community groups organizing the counter-demonstration. "Leaving them a small group to attack in the streets is only going to allow them to perpetuate their violence." Dueling protests a month ago ended with Portland police declaring a riot and arresting four people. A similar Patriot Prayer event on June 4 devolved into fistfights and assaults by both sides as police struggled to keep the groups apart. www.msn.com
Gotta say, this is a case of Poe's law to me. A group called "Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys" (Or two groups i guess)
My first guess would have been that they are a Punkrock band satirizing nazis. Like, they turn up in basically SS uniforms with some little twist to make it clear that it is meant as a joke ( Kind of like these guys ), have a core fan group who also dresses similarly, and then do some wildly sarcastic music making fun of overpatriotic people.
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On August 05 2018 18:04 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 10:08 screamingpalm wrote:Have to say that the police seemed to have done a decent job in Portland today. Avoided catastrophe at least. I really dig that Antifa showed up with people dressed as clowns and a brass band lol. + Show Spoiler +PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Small scuffles broke out Saturday as police in Portland, Oregon, deployed "flash bang" devices and other means to disperse hundreds of right-wing and self-described anti-fascist protesters. Just before 2 p.m., police in riot gear ordered people to leave an area downtown, saying demonstrators had thrown rocks and bottles at officers. "Get out of the street," police announced via loudspeaker. There were arrests and some injuries, but it wasn't immediately clear how many. A reporter for The Oregonian/OregonLive was bloodied when he was struck by a projectile. Eder Campuzano said later on Twitter he was "okay." Demonstrators aligned with Patriot Prayer and an affiliated group, the Proud Boys, gathered around mid-day in a riverfront park. Hundreds of demonstrators faced them from across the street, holding banners and signs with opposition messages such as "Alt right scum not welcome in Portland." Some chanted "Nazis go home." Officers stood in the middle of the four-lane boulevard, essentially forming a wall to keep the two sides separated. The counter-protesters were made up of a coalition of labor unions, immigrant rights advocates, democratic socialists and other groups. They included people dressed as clowns and a brass band blaring music. The rally organized by Patriot Prayer leader Joey Gibson was the third to roil Portland this summer. Two previous events ended in bloody fistfights and riots, and one counter-protester was sent to the hospital with a skull fracture. This time, Gibson changed the venue from a federal plaza outside U.S. District Court to a waterfront park so some of his Oregon supporters could carry concealed weapons as they demonstrate. Gibson disputed the group's classification by some as a hate group. "We're here to promote freedom and God. That's it," Gibson told Portland TV station KGW while walking with demonstrators. "Our country is getting soft." Protesters saw a significant police presence that included bomb-sniffing dogs and weapons screening checkpoints. In a statement, police said weapons may be seized if there is a violation of law and added that it is illegal in Portland to carry a loaded firearm in public unless a person has a valid Oregon concealed handgun license. Among the things police confiscated were long sticks and homemade shields. Gibson's insistence on bringing his supporters repeatedly to this blue city has crystallized a debate about the limits of free speech in an era of stark political division. Patriot Prayer also has held rallies in many other cities around the U.S. West, including Berkeley, California, that have drawn violent reactions. But the Portland events have taken on outsized significance after a Patriot Prayer sympathizer was charged with fatally stabbing two men who came to the defense of two young black women — one in a hijab — whom the attacker was accused of harassing on a light-rail train in May 2017. A coalition of community organizations and a group representing more than 50 tribes warned of the potential for even greater violence than previous rallies if participants carry guns. It called on officials to denounce what it called "the racist and sexist violence of Patriot Prayer and Proud Boys" and protect the city. Gibson, who is running a long-shot campaign to unseat Democratic U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state, said in a live video on Facebook earlier this week that he won't stop bringing his followers to Portland until they can express their right-wing views without interference. Self-described anti-fascists — or "antifa" — have been organizing anonymously online to confront Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys in the streets. Organizers say that while Patriot Prayer denies being a white supremacist group, it affiliates itself with known white supremacists, white nationalists and neo-Nazi gangs. "Patriot Prayer is continuing to commit violence in our city, and their events are becoming more and more violent," said Effie Baum of Pop Mob, a coalition of community groups organizing the counter-demonstration. "Leaving them a small group to attack in the streets is only going to allow them to perpetuate their violence." Dueling protests a month ago ended with Portland police declaring a riot and arresting four people. A similar Patriot Prayer event on June 4 devolved into fistfights and assaults by both sides as police struggled to keep the groups apart. www.msn.com Gotta say, this is a case of Poe's law to me. A group called "Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys" (Or two groups i guess) My first guess would have been that they are a Punkrock band satirizing nazis. Like, they turn up in basically SS uniforms with some little twist to make it clear that it is meant as a joke ( Kind of like these guys ), have a core fan group who also dresses similarly, and then do some wildly sarcastic music making fun of overpatriotic people.
The only way the current situation in the US can become stupider is if 'trolling' left-aligned and right-aligned groups start masquerading as parodic versions of their opponents, only to be mistaken for the real thing and attract counter-protestors, which then turns into violence, so the left starts beating up the left and the right starts beating up the right, all the while accusing the other side of increasingly violent behaviour.
I don't THINK that's happened yet...
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Yeah, Trump's statements regarding his knowledge of that meeting must be driving his legal team nuts, he's getting dangerously close to making legally significant admissions.
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It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad"
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Seems we've progressed to the "It did happen, but it's not bad." stage.
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Interesting that he said it's about adoption, when this whole thing likely revolves around the Magnitsky Act, to which Russia's initial response was to ban adoption of Russian children by Americans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnitsky_Act
The Russian lawyer that Donald Jr. met with is a lobbyist against the Magnitsky Act, and Fusion GPS has also lobbied against it, and has done research for a firm accused of money laundering under the act.
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On August 06 2018 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad"
At this point, it shouldn't. They don't care. Trump could literally murder people with his own two hands and most of them wouldn't care so long as it was an immigrant. He's their hero, the symbol of their beliefs, ideals, and chances to avoid being oppressed by the black man, because white racism is a much bigger problem than black racism, didn't you know.
Anything that in any way threatens Trump is bad and evil and wrong. Especially the truth.
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On August 05 2018 09:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 09:52 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2018 00:46 screamingpalm wrote:On August 04 2018 21:02 Sermokala wrote:
A smart democratic successor would act as if trump never existed and operate as if they took over from obama. Trumps legitimacy and power has always come from people overreacting to him. See stealthblue calling America a failed state. Ignoring the causes and core issues has been a losing strategy for Democrats. Progressives with a populist economic message could help to change that. Sadly running on 'Bring coal back' and 'minimum wage jobs should feed a family of 6' might get you votes from idiots that believe you but it won't actually help the country. Democrats have plenty of idea's for these people. But when they set up training programs to help out the sons of coal miners to find a new job they use it to learn to become a coal miner instead. These people don't want a realistic solution, they want a time machine. It's not so much that they want the coal mining jobs back (some of them might) it's that they want the straightforward good paying work back. You're not wrong though that they'd be better off building a time machine than thinking they are going to vote their way out of it with our 2 parties.
I think the problem also is that the creative destruction brought about by capitalism, while clearly causing profits to skyrocket, bringing a billion people out of poverty in china etc, is tearing apart the fabric of social life that was formed by occupation in America and other post-industrial countries. The 'straightforward' element of the good paying work can't be underrated - if people are having to retrain every few years, rather than every generation, to work in new and different sectors, the social identity and security that work provided is lost. The anger from this process is undoubtedly expressed at the ballot box.
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This makes no sense, how does bad information make you state your client never helped draft a letter which he obviously did after several weeks. When Sanders stated the opposite you should have cornered your client and told them to be straight with you.
Are Trump's lawyers really that scared of him?
Jay Sekulow, an attorney for President Donald Trump, said “bad information” was to blame for a false statement he previously made regarding the infamous Trump Tower meeting in June 2016.
During an appearance Sunday on ABC’s “This Week,” Sekulow brushed off his initial faulty assertion last July that Trump didn’t help craft Donald Trump Jr.’s response to news reports about his meeting with a Russian operative.
“I was in the case at that point, what, a couple of weeks, and there was a lot of information that was gathering,” Sekulow said Sunday. “As my colleague [Trump attorney] Rudy Giuliani said, I had bad information at that time. I made a mistake in my statement. ... That happens when you have cases like this.”
The president’s role in drafting the letter could cause him problems if it’s seen as an attempt to obstruct special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into possible Russian collusion with his campaign.
It could also cause problems for Trump’s son, who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee last September that he didn’t have a clear idea who was responsible for the misleading statement. Trump Jr. had initially said the meeting was about the so-called adoption issue, believed to refer to the Magnitsky Act, which Congress passed as a sanction on Russian officials and led Russia, in response, to ban U.S. families from adopting Russian children.
Sekulow had told ABC in July 2017 that Trump “wasn’t involved” in drafting Trump Jr.’s statement downplaying the meeting ― in which he actually sought dirt on his father’s Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton leading up to the 2016 election.
“The president didn’t sign off on anything,” Sekulow had told ABC.
Roughly a month later, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders revealed to reporters that Trump had weighed in on his son’s statement but did not personally dictate it.
But Trump’s legal team contradicted both assertions this January when they told Mueller’s office that Trump had indeed dictated his son’s response.
Sekulow was also asked Sunday when he learned his statement about Trump’s involvement in the Trump Jr. statement wasn’t true. But Sekulow ducked the question, insisting instead that “over time, facts develop.”
“As far as when did we correct it, the important part is, the information that we’ve shared with the Office of Special Counsel ... we were very clear as to the situation involving that trip and the statements that were made to The New York Times,” Sekulow told ABC.
Trump on Sunday railed against recent reports from the Times and The Washington Post claiming he was concerned Trump Jr. could be facing legal trouble related to Mueller’s Russia investigation.
“This was a meeting to get information on an opponent, totally legal and done all the time in politics - and it went nowhere,” Trump tweeted, publicly acknowledging for the first time that his son had attempted to gain political opposition research from the Russians.
Source
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On August 06 2018 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad"
Because they don’t care about any of it. They would support Voldemort if he pushed a conservative agenda.
I believe that when people don’t ever call foul on their own side anymore, democracy is in pretty grave danger but that’s clearly not everyone’s thought.
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On August 06 2018 04:14 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 04:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 06 2018 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad" Because they don’t care about any of it. They would support Voldemort if he pushed a conservative agenda. I believe that when people don’t ever call foul on their own side anymore, democracy is in pretty grave danger but that’s clearly not everyone’s thought. I'm not sure that Trump is pushing the conservative agenda. I think they support him for other reasons.
The point is that if you are ready to support a horrible person with no norals whatsoever to get what you want politically, you don’t really deserve to live in a democracy. Holding our politicians accountable to a certain standard should be the bottom line of being a responsible citizen.
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On August 06 2018 04:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad" Because they don’t care about any of it. They would support Voldemort if he pushed a conservative agenda. I believe that when people don’t ever call foul on their own side anymore, democracy is in pretty grave danger but that’s clearly not everyone’s thought.
I mean yea Voldemort promised to murder the muggles but we had to take the chance that he would pivot. It was Hogwarts Express 93, people had to charge the engine room and hope for the best. Also there were crucial appointees to the Ministry of Magic hanging in the balance. I gotta say though I'm happy with Voldemort's performance so far and how he is putting purebloods first again.
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On August 06 2018 04:45 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2018 04:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 06 2018 04:14 JimmiC wrote:On August 06 2018 04:07 Biff The Understudy wrote:On August 06 2018 00:42 Mohdoo wrote:
It blows my mind how people who have defended Trump throughout this whole thing don't ever stop to think "wait, Trump originally said this was about adoptions. Now we know it was 100% about Clinton dirt. Why did he originally lie? I wonder if he actually did something bad" Because they don’t care about any of it. They would support Voldemort if he pushed a conservative agenda. I believe that when people don’t ever call foul on their own side anymore, democracy is in pretty grave danger but that’s clearly not everyone’s thought. I'm not sure that Trump is pushing the conservative agenda. I think they support him for other reasons. The point is that if you are ready to support a horrible person with no norals whatsoever to get what you want politically, you don’t really deserve to live in a democracy. Holding our politicians accountable to a certain standard should be the bottom line of being a responsible citizen. I don't disagree with this, but it is not a left/right or a dem/rep thing. All sides ahve done a shitty job of holding their own side accountable. It is far easier to point fingers the other way.
not all sides have done an equally bad job at it though. the left has done a markedly better job at it than the right.
it really is a dem/rep thing.
just because it's true that both sides do poorly at it, and that it's easier to point fingers at the other side; doesn't mean there isn't in fact a real difference in the degree to which each side has held its own members accountable.
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On August 06 2018 03:13 kollin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2018 09:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On August 05 2018 09:52 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2018 00:46 screamingpalm wrote:On August 04 2018 21:02 Sermokala wrote:
A smart democratic successor would act as if trump never existed and operate as if they took over from obama. Trumps legitimacy and power has always come from people overreacting to him. See stealthblue calling America a failed state. Ignoring the causes and core issues has been a losing strategy for Democrats. Progressives with a populist economic message could help to change that. Sadly running on 'Bring coal back' and 'minimum wage jobs should feed a family of 6' might get you votes from idiots that believe you but it won't actually help the country. Democrats have plenty of idea's for these people. But when they set up training programs to help out the sons of coal miners to find a new job they use it to learn to become a coal miner instead. These people don't want a realistic solution, they want a time machine. It's not so much that they want the coal mining jobs back (some of them might) it's that they want the straightforward good paying work back. You're not wrong though that they'd be better off building a time machine than thinking they are going to vote their way out of it with our 2 parties. I think the problem also is that the creative destruction brought about by capitalism, while clearly causing profits to skyrocket, bringing a billion people out of poverty in china etc, is tearing apart the fabric of social life that was formed by occupation in America and other post-industrial countries. The 'straightforward' element of the good paying work can't be underrated - if people are having to retrain every few years, rather than every generation, to work in new and different sectors, the social identity and security that work provided is lost. The anger from this process is undoubtedly expressed at the ballot box.
That's more the creative destruction wrought by technology than by capitalism. otherwise I agree.
It's a pity that the anger often expresses itself in destructive ways rather than constructive ways.
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EPT
