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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5158 Posts
Your time for actual action is running out, US citizens... I hope us Europeans cut ties asap and turn towards China. I hope we heavily defy these Greenland threats with a nuclear response. Sick of all these procedural protocol clowns being reactionary instead of proactive. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11835 Posts
I hope us Europeans cut ties asap and turn towards China. China isn't really much better either. They have just been an inhumane dictatorship for longer, so we are more used to it. And they are a bit further away i guess. Still not really what i would want a partner to be. There must be some way to be at least slightly ethical? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23948 Posts
On January 10 2026 04:27 Simberto wrote: The "they" was mostly directed at the overwhelming majority of the general american public, not necessarily specific people. I honestly don't know what the best course of action is, but it seems to me that there should be massive reactions to all of this, and these just aren't there at all. You got a guy simultaneously grifting the absolute shit out of the country in the most corrupt way possible, lawlessly breaking the rule of law at any juncture, demolishing all of the institutions that should prevent the shift towards dictatorship that prevented him from succeeding in his last coup in the most obvious way, ruining your economy and also being just the most vile human being possible. And i haven't even touched upon foreign politics. It seems that if ever there was a time to protest and fight back, it should be now. But it just isn't happening in any relevant way. Well it certainly applies to specific people too. Socialists have been trying to encourage people to organize themselves in preparation for this moment for years (honestly decades) while the lib/Dem/ilk/people you're talking about have been shitting on those efforts at every possible moment in deference to the aforementioned incessant mean girling/mocking and gawking. This is obviously a critical moment. What we should do and how we should do it will be a critical component of our future. I have little hope of people truly grasping the seriousness of this moment and the potential of our community to really have an impact, but I do hold out hope we can focus a bit more on discussing the things like "What should we do now?" and especially "How will we do it?" It's not much, but locally we got an "ABOLISH I.C.E." banner on the local news and another rapid response protest in Tacoma (where there is an ICE facility, but opted against targeting it directly). However, I can also assure you that there were people that didn't want the banner up for the typical "don't want to upset the moderates" reasons. Those disagreements (and more like them) with/among whoever is ostensibly the opposition to this fascist fuckery are imo among the most important things we can do in a space like this. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5158 Posts
On January 10 2026 05:49 Simberto wrote: China isn't really much better either. They have just been an inhumane dictatorship for longer, so we are more used to it. And they are a bit further away i guess. Still not really what i would want a partner to be. There must be some way to be at least slightly ethical? Your options are: Corrupted world police Narco kleptocracies Aggressive authoritarian, slave owning style Resentful authoritarian, Korsakov style Centralized authoritarian, brooding style Chaos, garbage and scrap Chaos, garbage and scrap, but with huge resource reserves And they somehow all hate Europe. Take your pick, lol. I may have typed lol, but it's a very sad, self depricating one. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1384 Posts
On the other hand, China has, in it's foreign policy embraced a different approach, kind of what US was doing when most people liked them, belt and road initiative has seen infrastructure investments all across Africa, they have lifted a lot of people out of poverty and achieved a great deal, not by bombing countries, not by doing regime change operations, not by sending mercenaries or arming terrorists, but by building and investing, yes, they do other shit like putting some of these countries under their thumb by way of loans, but overall they have done more good then harm to the world over the past few decades. Compare that to Trump's America, they check all the marks on the first paragraph, they aren't openly supporting Russia but it's not that far off, they are openly allowing and shielding Israel from consequences of their own genocide, they are laying groundwork for their own camps and the repression tactics are basically the same as Russia's or China's nowadays. Unlike USA, China has no territorial pertentions for territory belonging to any EU country, they haven't started any trade wars or called for regime change in Europe, to me, at the moment, China is a lesser threat then Trump's America. Nice thing about USA, up until recently, is that this can change with elections, we'll see, my reading is that it's very unlikely that USA can swing all the way back to being a normal democracy, I hope it does, and I'll gladly eat my words here if they do, but in the meantime, at worse it's a wash, realistically, I'd rather side with China since they aren't threatening or attacking anyone relevant to my interests. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7170 Posts
On January 10 2026 03:54 dyhb wrote: Do we really have to jump on the bitter partisanship that one side knows it was a murder, and are defending it because they support law enforcement murders. https://x.com/alphanews/status/2009679932289626385 From watching the clips, I saw a reasonable belief that his life was in danger. And it won’t do anybody any good to pretend that it’s clear-cut in the opposite direction. She was more like Ashley Babbit than George Floyd. And it’s still a tragedy. https://x.com/factpostnews/status/2009697759998497170 Look at this fucking video and tell me there was any danger to this guy. You fascist bootlickers are insane. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23948 Posts
As far as US politics, Schumer is already preemptively surrendering, while some Democrats call for using the only leverage they have. | ||
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dyhb
United States308 Posts
On January 10 2026 05:35 Jankisa wrote: If I'm to understand you correctly, she hits him with her car while fleeing arrest, but that's ok because the federal officer can deduce in those fractions of a second how she's turning the wheel that she presents no danger to him (again, despite actually hitting him with her car)?The guy did 2 circles around the car, while holding his phone outstretched, you can see in the recording (obviously he's looking in the same direction he's filming) that she's turning the steering wheel to the side opposite of the one which she'd be turning if she wanted to run the fucker over, so this guy had this information, then he took a step closer to the car so he can put himself in a position where fascist boot lickers can pretend he was in danger and executed the woman who's last words were "I'm not mad at you", who was there, in her street after dropping her kid at school. The guy wanted to kill her, put himself in the position, pulled the gun before the victim even started moving the car forward, caused her to panic and then executed her, immediately after, without dropping his phone he turns it to video the car going away and says "fucking bitch", and this guy comes here to explain how this lady, on her street, turning the wheel away from the piece of shit is more like Ashley Babbit who was trying to brake through a barricade while ignoring 10 commands to stop. I mean, no wonder, it's the same guy explaining to us in the I/P thread how the 2 kids, 8 and 11 were justifiably killed because they could have been Hamas child soldiers and how killing them was the correct thing to do, so, you know, perhaps this is someone who automatically sides with the side that likes executing innocents. I'm having a really hard time believing that you really think this. They're making eye contact and she drives forward into him. You can argue that she didn't intend that, but people are killed by vehicles that didn't intend to kill them all the time. Especially on icy roads. I look at that video and see that the officer was in very real danger. He wasn't even in front of the car until SHE REVERSED AT AN ANGLE. Perhaps unknowingly and perhaps thinking she could avoid the collision, she accelerated the car into him putting the officer's life in danger. And she waits until the agent is back in front of the car to make her escape. I really have a problem with anybody that calls this an execution. On January 10 2026 05:37 LightSpectra wrote: From my previous posts, I think calling this "executed on the spot" is an absurd attempt to bury the actual controversy. Akin to if I told you "LightSpectra thinks ICE protestors can hit law enforcement with their cars as a form of constitutionally-protected protest." You haven't said that, but like you're doing, I'm just telling you your views. The USA is the only developed country where you get executed on the spot for noncompliance with law enforcement. I'm just curious, do you think that's a good thing? Should cops in the UK or Japan or New Zealand just kill people if they say "get out of the car" but they don't? Moreover, why stop at law enforcement? Should cabinet members or judges or members of a nation's congress/parliament also have the right to kill people on the spot for noncompliance? I mean, it's very blatantly not about public safety whatsoever since ICE has collectively made everyone infinitely less safe than undocumented immigrants ever have, so I'm just trying to figure out the where and whys for when the government can just kill you on the spot. Much like Ashley Babbitt that I mentioned earlier, it's still a tragedy that she died. I don't have to put on a big show about law enforcement executing her, and how this doesn't happen in other countries. I can still discuss her involvement in the circumstances of her death. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7170 Posts
On January 10 2026 06:25 dyhb wrote: If I'm to understand you correctly, she hits him with her car while fleeing arrest, but that's ok because the federal officer can deduce in those fractions of a second how she's turning the wheel that she presents no danger to him (again, despite actually hitting him with her car)? I'm having a really hard time believing that you really think this. They're making eye contact and she drives forward into him. You can argue that she didn't intend that, but people are killed by vehicles that didn't intend to kill them all the time. Especially on icy roads. I look at that video and see that the officer was in very real danger. He wasn't even in front of the car until SHE REVERSED AT AN ANGLE. Perhaps unknowingly and perhaps thinking she could avoid the collision, she accelerated the car into him putting the officer's life in danger. And she waits until the agent is back in front of the car to make her escape. I really have a problem with anybody that calls this an execution. You can literally see her turning the wheel away from the ICE dude you dumb fuck. That was about as much of a dangerous situation for him as walking outside of my home door is for me. Much like Ashley Babbitt that I mentioned earlier, it's still a tragedy that she died. I don't have to put on a big show about law enforcement executing her, and how this doesn't happen in other countries. I can still discuss her involvement in the circumstances of her death. Ashli Babbitt was a traitor that died because she got conned by Don The Con into invading the capitol and trying to break through a glass door that was being defended by armed men who were supposed to be there. You would've been better off saying something about Charlie Kirk because atleast at the time of his death the worst he was doing was a racist dogwhistle. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2575 Posts
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decafchicken
United States20160 Posts
On January 10 2026 06:25 dyhb wrote: If I'm to understand you correctly, she hits him with her car while fleeing arrest, but that's ok because the federal officer can deduce in those fractions of a second how she's turning the wheel that she presents no danger to him (again, despite actually hitting him with her car)? I'm having a really hard time believing that you really think this. They're making eye contact and she drives forward into him. You can argue that she didn't intend that, but people are killed by vehicles that didn't intend to kill them all the time. Especially on icy roads. I look at that video and see that the officer was in very real danger. He wasn't even in front of the car until SHE REVERSED AT AN ANGLE. Perhaps unknowingly and perhaps thinking she could avoid the collision, she accelerated the car into him putting the officer's life in danger. And she waits until the agent is back in front of the car to make her escape. I really have a problem with anybody that calls this an execution. Whiles he's reversing (this is called a "3-point turn" not "attempted murder" btw in case you've never been in car before) you can literally see her saying on camera "That's fine dude, I'm not mad at you" very calmly and politely. She is clearly not murderous or involved in a nefarious plot to kill ICE agents, and certainly not trying to get herself shot in front of her partner. She doesn't drive away until two guys jump out of the car and run at her yelling at her to get out and yanking on her door wildly escalating the situation for no reason. I will remind you that ICE are not local police and do not have jurisdiction to warrantlessly harass US citizens for non-immigration crimes. Being in a parked car that is not blocking traffic (we have evidence that this is the case) calmly talking to people is not an obstruction of justice, it's at worst a parking ticket. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22364 Posts
On January 10 2026 05:49 Simberto wrote: China is a more reliable international partner then the US.China isn't really much better either. They have just been an inhumane dictatorship for longer, so we are more used to it. And they are a bit further away i guess. Still not really what i would want a partner to be. There must be some way to be at least slightly ethical? And that should be a frightening sentiment to the US. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
1: Government loses popularity with their base 2: Foreign military/economic pressure I think [1] has been completely wiped out at this point. Even if something major happened, it would be impossible to convince MAGA it really happened. We'll never reach a high enough % of the country willing to push against Trump. And even if we just assume me and everyone who agrees with me are the ones who are wrong: The narrative I subscribe to appears to be absolutely air-tight. It feels unfathomable for something else to be true. So whether I am the one being manipulated, or its the "other side", its game over. I am making no effort to hold on to a belief. I'd love to be wrong because this is very scary. I would prefer the world to not be scary. | ||
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Legan
Finland577 Posts
On January 10 2026 04:52 KwarK wrote: Everyone knows what needs to be done and it's not protesting. On January 10 2026 05:10 KwarK wrote: Lindsay Graham said two days ago that if the dictator starts killing protestors then they need to be killed. I want to know how that happens to a dictator. Divine intervention? Space debris? Their bodyguard turns on them? Random shooter climbs to a roof? Foreign military force perform law enforcement? Countrys own military does a coup? If it happens, then what? Vice president takes their place, like in Venezuela? Do the government and ruling party just give power willingly to the opposition? All armed personnel loyal to the former dictator stand down? How many of the potential actors capable of doing these things know when they have enough support from the population if they do not at least perform a mass protest? | ||
KwarK
United States43987 Posts
On January 10 2026 08:49 Legan wrote: If it happens, then what? Vice president takes their place, like in Venezuela? Do the government and ruling party just give power willingly to the opposition? All armed personnel loyal to the former dictator stand down? These are all different problems that would still have to be solved. But you're arguing that because it wouldn't solve everything then it wouldn't solve anything. That someone shouldn't take the clear and necessary step because after doing it there would still be unresolved issues. Well, those unresolved issues already exist today. That doesn't mean things wouldn't be better if there was at least one fewer problem. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17509 Posts
https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/shut-three-mile-island-nuclear-plant-may-restart-2027-owner-says-2025-06-25/ I thought the meltdown of this nuclear plant was going accelerate global warming and cause everyone to get cancer for the next 500 years? It is hilarious listening to the scare tactics of previous decades get totally ignored as though none of it ever mattered. On January 10 2026 05:46 Uldridge wrote: Your time for actual action is running out, US citizens... Ronald Reagan told me time was running out in 1964 in "A Time For Choosing". Chaos is part of American life. meh. | ||
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dyhb
United States308 Posts
On January 10 2026 06:29 Luolis wrote: If we're judging the video like an NFL review, I'd be on your side. We take a timeout, the Referees review the footage, and minutes later we have the determination. When you play the video at normal speed, he has fractions of a second to react to someone accelerating towards him. Sorry, I don't agree with you.You can literally see her turning the wheel away from the ICE dude you dumb fuck. That was about as much of a dangerous situation for him as walking outside of my home door is for me. I fail to see the reason you're comparing her collision with the officer to you walking out your front door. Is your neighborhood especially dangerous? Ashli Babbitt was a traitor that died because she got conned by Don The Con into invading the capitol and trying to break through a glass door that was being defended by armed men who were supposed to be there. You would've been better off saying something about Charlie Kirk because atleast at the time of his death the worst he was doing was a racist dogwhistle. On January 10 2026 06:37 LightSpectra wrote: If we're all adults here, we can watch the same video and come to different conclusions about it. I watched it and saw a reasonable belief that he would die or suffer serious injury when she accelerated into him."Dumb fuck" is too kind. Do you (dyhb) aggressively gaslight people in real life like this too, or is lying to defend extrajudicial murder just what you do as a hobby on the Internet? At some point, you have to accept that some people both disagree with you and aren't also playing psychological tricks on you. On January 10 2026 06:43 decafchicken wrote: I think her partner was recording the whole thing, so I'll wait for that video.Whiles he's reversing (this is called a "3-point turn" not "attempted murder" btw in case you've never been in car before) you can literally see her saying on camera "That's fine dude, I'm not mad at you" very calmly and politely. She is clearly not murderous or involved in a nefarious plot to kill ICE agents, and certainly not trying to get herself shot in front of her partner. She doesn't drive away until two guys jump out of the car and run at her yelling at her to get out and yanking on her door wildly escalating the situation for no reason. Two points on this. One, I didn't say nor intended to imply that she desired to kill somebody that day. I'm sure Trumpland is going to imply domestic terrorism, but the intent isn't there. Second, I think the other officers that approached to make this into an arrest did so at the wrong time and idiotically. This was avoidable from both her side and the other officers, but that doesn't affect whether it was legally justifiable.I will remind you that ICE are not local police and do not have jurisdiction to warrantlessly harass US citizens for non-immigration crimes. Being in a parked car that is not blocking traffic (we have evidence that this is the case) calmly talking to people is not an obstruction of justice, it's at worst a parking ticket. I think most of what you write here is contradicted by what I've read on the subject. The earliest videos show her stopped and parked in a lane perpendicular to the flow of traffic. Here's your reminder that the shorter video clips don't capture the totality of the interactions. If she was blocking traffic intending to obstruct ICE from detaining an individual, she could be arrested and tried for interfering/obstructing federal officers. ICE agents are still federal law enforcement officers, and you can absolutely be asked to leave your vehicle and detained for interfering with their operations. | ||
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KwarK
United States43987 Posts
On January 10 2026 09:48 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) is fast tracking the revival of 3 Mile Island. LOL. https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/shut-three-mile-island-nuclear-plant-may-restart-2027-owner-says-2025-06-25/ I thought the meltdown of this nuclear plant was going accelerate global warming and cause everyone to get cancer for the next 500 years? It is hilarious listening to the scare tactics of previous decades get totally ignored as though none of it ever mattered. Ronald Reagan told me time was running out in 1964 in "A Time For Choosing". Chaos is part of American life. meh. 6/10, deranged but not your best. It was a 4 but I gave another 2 points for not being able to tell the difference between reality and movies. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17743 Posts
Something to disseminate for those more mathematically and economically apt. For a layman like myself it looks like US is way overestimating its economic prowess and underestimating how much effort will be required to make gains on their current goals (very simplified takeaway from the video, I'm not educated or knowledgeable enough to really question someone who is supposedly a PhD Lead Data Scientist working in finance & geopolitics and I assume not aiming this video at an average viewer). To quote the video: "This is economic illiteracy dressed up as national security" | ||
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Luolis
Finland7170 Posts
On January 10 2026 10:18 dyhb wrote: If we're judging the video like an NFL review, I'd be on your side. We take a timeout, the Referees review the footage, and minutes later we have the determination. When you play the video at normal speed, he has fractions of a second to react to someone accelerating towards him. Sorry, I don't agree with you. I fail to see the reason you're comparing her collision with the officer to you walking out your front door. Is your neighborhood especially dangerous? Not drawing the moral comparison between Babbitt and Good, just the insanity of talking about speaking about this as an execution. Charlie Kirk died sitting in his chair talking, not sitting behind the wheel driving into his audience. If we're all adults here, we can watch the same video and come to different conclusions about it. I watched it and saw a reasonable belief that he would die or suffer serious injury when she accelerated into him. At some point, you have to accept that some people both disagree with you and aren't also playing psychological tricks on you. I think her partner was recording the whole thing, so I'll wait for that video. Two points on this. One, I didn't say nor intended to imply that she desired to kill somebody that day. I'm sure Trumpland is going to imply domestic terrorism, but the intent isn't there. Second, I think the other officers that approached to make this into an arrest did so at the wrong time and idiotically. This was avoidable from both her side and the other officers, but that doesn't affect whether it was legally justifiable. I think most of what you write here is contradicted by what I've read on the subject. The earliest videos show her stopped and parked in a lane perpendicular to the flow of traffic. Here's your reminder that the shorter video clips don't capture the totality of the interactions. If she was blocking traffic intending to obstruct ICE from detaining an individual, she could be arrested and tried for interfering/obstructing federal officers. ICE agents are still federal law enforcement officers, and you can absolutely be asked to leave your vehicle and detained for interfering with their operations. I've been arguing about this enough today so i'll end up with the important bulletpoints on this. The issue here is that its a bad look to focus on what she couldve maybe done better, when the sole focus of the discussion should be that; A: ICE shouldnt be there in the first place B: the shooting was unjustified and basically an extrajudicial execution C: the government of the united states is defending the guy and smearing the victim as a psychotic domestic terrorist who almost killed the agent D: the killer will face no repercussions whatsoever | ||
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