EPTSomeone post some interesting news to discuss.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 534
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Someone post some interesting news to discuss. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:01 Plansix wrote: I’ve been a complete asshole in this thread at times and I don't expect the mods to ban anyone if they call me on it. But also we don’t need to dominate the thread with discussions about what grade of an asshole I am. Someone post some interesting news to discuss. you mean important but boring news, or somethin gthat will generate discussion but be terrible? no tthat I have much to offer on either, but I do have a question: what people have anyone see of these two types of news sources: 1) a boring, non-sensational focus on things that really matter (i.e. from a statistical perspective things which truly do have a large impact) and getting into the details; possibly quite wonkish. 2) a heavy, possibly pure, focus on good news. with all the bad news these days it'd be nice to have some good news focused, and not just feel good individual stories, but stuff about larger positive effects in the world. I've heard enough people express similar sentiments that there must be at least a few sources to fill this niche. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On July 24 2018 20:38 Velr wrote: The one right before mine? I'm not arguing that your points are untrue, just that your methods are useless. You never wondered why the majority of people in this tread at least somewhat agree with you yet you constantly alienate many of them? Your not helping your cause at all, you are probably even hurting it. I can confirm this. Thanks in part to some of the far left posters in this thread I am literally never going to vote for a far left candidate, if they happen to be running against a nazi, I'll just assume they bullied a real democrat out of that spot to get it and still won't vote for them. They wanted their never Hillary movement and many like some that post here assume that real democrats will have to join them but they won't join the real democrats. They would rather trump in office than an actual decent candidate, well when you attack your supposed own party, the door goes both ways. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:21 hunts wrote: I can confirm this. Thanks in part to some of the far left posters in this thread I am literally never going to vote for a far left candidate, if they happen to be running against a nazi, I'll just assume they bullied a real democrat out of that spot to get it and still won't vote for them. They wanted their never Hillary movement and many like some that post here assume that real democrats will have to join them but they won't join the real democrats. They would rather trump in office than an actual decent candidate, well when you attack your supposed own party, the door goes both ways. lol, and people wonder why I wouldn't count this perspective among allies toward equity and justice? | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9487 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:21 hunts wrote: I can confirm this. Thanks in part to some of the far left posters in this thread I am literally never going to vote for a far left candidate, if they happen to be running against a nazi, I'll just assume they bullied a real democrat out of that spot to get it and still won't vote for them. They wanted their never Hillary movement and many like some that post here assume that real democrats will have to join them but they won't join the real democrats. They would rather trump in office than an actual decent candidate, well when you attack your supposed own party, the door goes both ways. Would you call Bernie a far left candidate? Would you vote for a nazi against Bernie? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Edit: There is a good chance Hunts is parodying the “Never Clinton” stance. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:26 Plansix wrote: Luckily most of the far left candidates out there are not into the internet performance style of politics and want to accomplish substantive things. They do not reflect the interactions we have in this thread. Edit: There is a good chance Hunts is parodying the “Never Clinton” stance. Internet (or really television because they're an older generation) performance politics is bipartisan bread and butter. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:21 hunts wrote: I can confirm this. Thanks in part to some of the far left posters in this thread I am literally never going to vote for a far left candidate, if they happen to be running against a nazi, I'll just assume they bullied a real democrat out of that spot to get it and still won't vote for them. They wanted their never Hillary movement and many like some that post here assume that real democrats will have to join them but they won't join the real democrats. They would rather trump in office than an actual decent candidate, well when you attack your supposed own party, the door goes both ways. If your convictions are so weak that they can be impacted by someone asserting their beliefs online somewhat forcefully, you should probably put a little more time into developping what you believe and why you believe it. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
edit: I have put quite a bit of time into what I believe, thanks for that disguised insult. What I believe happens to not align with the radical far left, but does align with the reasonable center left. Although with the way things are going, I may find myself more aligned with the center right than what the far left populists want to make of the democratic party. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22991 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:39 Nebuchad wrote: If your convictions are so weak that they can be impacted by someone asserting their beliefs online somewhat forcefully, you should probably put a little more time into developping what you believe and why you believe it. Right? Like it's such a ridiculous self-own I'm at a loss of how to approach it, despite running into it quite a bit. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11406 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:42 hunts wrote: Yes I would consider bernie far left, and because of people like some of the posters here, and all of the never hillary bernie bros I've seen, I, a person of jewish descent who has had relatives die in concentration camps, would very seriously consider voting for a literal neo nazi over bernie. The far left never hillary people wanted to start a war within the democratic party, they wanted to show that they are ok with letting trump burn down the country just so they can pat themselves on the back. They falsly believed that the democrats would have to join them and vote for their far left populist but that they (the minority) did not have to join the democrats and vote for a reasonable candidate. They can reap what they sow, and know that the majority who are not happy with their abrasive and unhelpful rhetoric can play the same game. I am 100% serious in that I will not vote for a far left candidate, not until they and their supporters apologize for the fighting they have started, and apologize for letting trump win by not voting, and I know that will never happen. edit: I have put quite a bit of time into what I believe, thanks for that disguised insult. What I believe happens to not align with the radical far left, but does align with the reasonable center left. Although with the way things are going, I may find myself more aligned with the center right than what the far left populists want to make of the democratic party. And to think that the whole problem could be avoided by having a multi-party system. Then the far left people could vote for their far-left party, and the center-left people could vote for their center-left party, and in the end the thing that matters is which parties have the most votes, and what coalitions they build out of that. But in a two-party system, both the center-left and the far-left feel way more threatened by the other left than even by nazis or trumps. And rightfully so, because in a two-party system there is always only the left and the right, there is no nuance. And if the left is not your left, it sucks to be you, because your choice is that left or the far right. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:42 hunts wrote: Yes I would consider bernie far left, and because of people like some of the posters here, and all of the never hillary bernie bros I've seen, I, a person of jewish descent who has had relatives die in concentration camps, would very seriously consider voting for a literal neo nazi over bernie. The far left never hillary people wanted to start a war within the democratic party, they wanted to show that they are ok with letting trump burn down the country just so they can pat themselves on the back. They falsly believed that the democrats would have to join them and vote for their far left populist but that they (the minority) did not have to join the democrats and vote for a reasonable candidate. They can reap what they sow, and know that the majority who are not happy with their abrasive and unhelpful rhetoric can play the same game. I am 100% serious in that I will not vote for a far left candidate, not until they and their supporters apologize for the fighting they have started, and apologize for letting trump win by not voting, and I know that will never happen. edit: I have put quite a bit of time into what I believe, thanks for that disguised insult. What I believe happens to not align with the radical far left, but does align with the reasonable center left. Although with the way things are going, I may find myself more aligned with the center right than what the far left populists want to make of the democratic party. I don't think the insult was disguised. The attitude of other people should not impact your political beliefs, and if they do, that's an incredibly shallow reason for that to happen. You can look at neonazis and leftists and decide that you'd rather vote for the second that the first but if you do I'd expect you make that choice based on policy, not on which particular group happened to be mean to you while you were online. | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On July 25 2018 01:01 Nebuchad wrote: I don't think the insult was disguised. The attitude of other people should not impact your political beliefs, and if they do, that's an incredibly shallow reason for that to happen. You can look at neonazis and leftists and decide that you'd rather vote for the second that the first but if you do I'd expect you make that choice based on policy, not on which particular group happened to be mean to you while you were online. You either misunderstood my post or misinterpreted it on purpose. I don't give a shit about people "being mean to me online." I care about the people who let trump happen because they wanted to pat themselves on the back over not voting for Hillary. There is a difference, and I sincerely hope you can tell that difference but simply chose to ignore it. And the point is exactly that if people want to not vote for someone in their own party because they aren't an extremist, then they better be prepared for the normal people in that party not to vote for their extremists. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21528 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:42 hunts wrote: I just feel obligated to mention that Bernie himself was very clear in that his supporters should vote Clinton and that Trump was wholly unacceptable.Yes I would consider bernie far left, and because of people like some of the posters here, and all of the never hillary bernie bros I've seen, I, a person of jewish descent who has had relatives die in concentration camps, would very seriously consider voting for a literal neo nazi over bernie. The far left never hillary people wanted to start a war within the democratic party, they wanted to show that they are ok with letting trump burn down the country just so they can pat themselves on the back. They falsly believed that the democrats would have to join them and vote for their far left populist but that they (the minority) did not have to join the democrats and vote for a reasonable candidate. They can reap what they sow, and know that the majority who are not happy with their abrasive and unhelpful rhetoric can play the same game. I am 100% serious in that I will not vote for a far left candidate, not until they and their supporters apologize for the fighting they have started, and apologize for letting trump win by not voting, and I know that will never happen. edit: I have put quite a bit of time into what I believe, thanks for that disguised insult. What I believe happens to not align with the radical far left, but does align with the reasonable center left. Although with the way things are going, I may find myself more aligned with the center right than what the far left populists want to make of the democratic party. Its the followers that are the problem. Not the politicians themselves (necessarily). | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9487 Posts
On July 25 2018 00:42 hunts wrote: Yes I would consider bernie far left, and because of people like some of the posters here, and all of the never hillary bernie bros I've seen, I, a person of jewish descent who has had relatives die in concentration camps, would very seriously consider voting for a literal neo nazi over bernie. The far left never hillary people wanted to start a war within the democratic party, they wanted to show that they are ok with letting trump burn down the country just so they can pat themselves on the back. They falsly believed that the democrats would have to join them and vote for their far left populist but that they (the minority) did not have to join the democrats and vote for a reasonable candidate. They can reap what they sow, and know that the majority who are not happy with their abrasive and unhelpful rhetoric can play the same game. I am 100% serious in that I will not vote for a far left candidate, not until they and their supporters apologize for the fighting they have started, and apologize for letting trump win by not voting, and I know that will never happen. edit: I have put quite a bit of time into what I believe, thanks for that disguised insult. What I believe happens to not align with the radical far left, but does align with the reasonable center left. Although with the way things are going, I may find myself more aligned with the center right than what the far left populists want to make of the democratic party. You would screw yourself over to vote with a candidate you hate to spite some people because they wouldn't vote for Hilary? This seems odd to me. People are supposed to vote with their interests so you get a country run according to people's interests. Voting out of spite as a fuck you to some people you don't like on the internet is just all too meta for me. On July 25 2018 00:26 Plansix wrote: Luckily most of the far left candidates out there are not into the internet performance style of politics and want to accomplish substantive things. They do not reflect the interactions we have in this thread. Edit: There is a good chance Hunts is parodying the “Never Clinton” stance. Although I don't really know anything about this poster I'm going assume that he's being serious, given that this is exactly where modern political debate is heading. | ||
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farvacola
United States18820 Posts
On July 25 2018 01:07 hunts wrote: You either misunderstood my post or misinterpreted it on purpose. I don't give a shit about people "being mean to me online." I care about the people who let trump happen because they wanted to pat themselves on the back over not voting for Hillary. There is a difference, and I sincerely hope you can tell that difference but simply chose to ignore it. And the point is exactly that if people want to not vote for someone in their own party because they aren't an extremist, then they better be prepared for the normal people in that party not to vote for their extremists. The problem with that logic is that you're assigning firm values to soft signals; there's actually a lot of conflicting information out there in terms of figuring out what proportion of "far leftists" fit the term "Bernie or Bust." I personally know a lot of "far leftists" that still voted for Hillary and/or rely on some degree of incrementalism, so to the extent you're assigning this group a general tendency, it seems to have been done in unforced error via giving the words of the outspoken too much weight. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On July 25 2018 01:09 Gorsameth wrote: I just feel obligated to mention that Bernie himself was very clear in that his supporters should vote Clinton and that Trump was wholly unacceptable. Its the followers that are the problem. Not the politicians themselves (necessarily). I know. I also remember his followers having nice remarks like "Hillary must be holding bernies family hostage for him to say that." and "I'll still never vote for her." And even if bernie himself said that, he still did a piss poor job of convincing his mob of followers, or of helping campaign for Hillary. Plus voting for a far left candidate would be helping those followers also. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 25 2018 01:12 hunts wrote: I know. I also remember his followers having nice remarks like "Hillary must be holding bernies family hostage for him to say that." and "I'll still never vote for her." And even if bernie himself said that, he still did a piss poor job of convincing his mob of followers, or of helping campaign for Hillary. Plus voting for a far left candidate would be helping those followers also. I think it is important to remember that the divisions between the Clinton and Bernie camps were amplified by social media and outside influences on our elections. Unless you met people in person who said that to you, I would take every one of those comments with a full tablespoon of salt. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12045 Posts
On July 25 2018 01:07 hunts wrote: You either misunderstood my post or misinterpreted it on purpose. I don't give a shit about people "being mean to me online." I care about the people who let trump happen because they wanted to pat themselves on the back over not voting for Hillary. There is a difference, and I sincerely hope you can tell that difference but simply chose to ignore it. And the point is exactly that if people want to not vote for someone in their own party because they aren't an extremist, then they better be prepared for the normal people in that party not to vote for their extremists. The distinction that you create here is without difference, it's still people's attitudes over policies. Neonazis don't become more acceptable because leftists have tactics that you disagree with. The acceptability of their beliefs and policies doesn't change because of the tactics of their opponents. If you don't want to vote for a leftist because of ideological reasons, that's fine. I don't think any leftist that encountered you on this forum ever expected you would. | ||
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