|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: Show nested quote +On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it.
How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information.
|
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On September 17 2025 16:59 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 09:50 Razyda wrote:On September 17 2025 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
When people think "Civil War", are they basically imagining the far-right going to war to keep the West Coast in the Union, rural vs urban wars around the country, North vs South, or what?
I don't know that enough of the US populace gives enough of a shit for an actual civil war.
I imagine more of a general "balkanization" with some conflicts internally (from oppressed groups) and between regions over resources and such. See you dont have single culture any more (like western/US culture) you have liberal culture and conservative culture and 2 cultures cant coexist within the same borders. One have to take over. Hard disagree. Contradictory values have existed side by side in many countries for many generations. One of the key components of civility is tolerance of contradictory values. We don't have peace because people are doing Kumbaya all day. We have peace because people actively choose not to enact violence on their ideological or personal enemies. That kind of restraint must be practiced in any community/civilization. Peace is simply a consequence of restraint. But that also requires that nobody does any evil things. Saying evil things is one thing, but acting on them is different. That's when violent conflict can happen. I didn't call Trump a fascist as long as he was just being racist. But then he started being a fascist and I started calling him a fascist. I don't call him a fascist because of his views, but because of his actions. His views can co-exist with my views without violence. But his actions cannot.
Indeed.
If you have some skeleton of rights to build around like, idk some kind of constitution or something. And some devolved governance to reflect localised differences, like idk, federalism or something, liberals and conservatives can happily co-exist.
Can you broadly live your day as you’d like, regardless of how’s in power?
Of course, things were never utopian, many people suffer materially under all kinds of governance, but I’m talking more that surface level of civility that binds people as fellow citizens who may disagree, but not outright enemies.
Fascism is taking a wrecking ball to that. I’ve been pretty reticent to use the F word (usually go with Fascist-adjacent), and I studiously avoid ever using the Nazi word, as ‘the LeFT caLL evErYONE FasCiSTs’ is usually the reflexive retort and doesn’t get people actually looking at the thing.
I’m happy (well, OK with, happy isn’t the word) observing that hm, might just be Fascism we’re looking at.
If Fascism has a whole bunch of areas one can look at, and say, Hitler is a 10/10 in racial rhetoric and expansive militarism.
Well the Trump second term is like starting to bump things up. From say a 5/10 in talking about ‘enemies of the state’, which would be a bit Fashy, but also just generally shitty rhetoric that isn’t necessarily Fascist, to like a 7 or an 8 now.
There are more and more areas like this, that are transitioning from shitty but not necessarily overly Fascistic, to absolutely that latter category.
I can sit with my Fascist book of plays, and my little notebook and see more and more of it be employed, much more blatantly.
Charlie Kirk as the Reichstag fire is another one. Inb4 not literally the Nazis… But it’s very instructive that he’s not being made a martyr for political violence in general, and a cautionary tale of an increasingly fractured society politically, but a clarion call to go after politics.
For me there are two main problems here.
1. Fascism is here, how the fuck do you maintain cordial civility there?
2. Many people cannot recognise Fascism. It’s like the auld boiling frog metaphor. Unless someone shows up and is up front about being Hitler 2.0. A more gradual move towards it, folks can’t seem to recognise it. Of course, some welcome it, but of those who don’t, I’d imagine it’s sometimes ignorance, and sometimes just mental defence mechanisms. The idea of Fascism in their nations is inconceivable, ergo they don’t conceive of it,
Bit of a ramble to say we’re kinda fucked, but hey. What can ya do?
|
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On September 17 2025 19:17 Razyda wrote:Thank you. Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 18:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 17 2025 18:16 Razyda wrote:On September 17 2025 16:59 Magic Powers wrote:On September 17 2025 09:50 Razyda wrote:On September 17 2025 05:53 GreenHorizons wrote:
When people think "Civil War", are they basically imagining the far-right going to war to keep the West Coast in the Union, rural vs urban wars around the country, North vs South, or what?
I don't know that enough of the US populace gives enough of a shit for an actual civil war.
I imagine more of a general "balkanization" with some conflicts internally (from oppressed groups) and between regions over resources and such. See you dont have single culture any more (like western/US culture) you have liberal culture and conservative culture and 2 cultures cant coexist within the same borders. One have to take over. Hard disagree. Contradictory values have existed side by side in many countries for many generations. One of the key components of civility is tolerance of contradictory values. It is not about contradictory values, it is about shared values. What are the values shared between US conservatives and US liberals? Please dont say flag, or love for the country, because it is simply not true. You may be able to make argument for constitution, but even there is disagreement like for example 2nd amendment (year ago I would mention 1st too, but it seems since Trump became president liberals see the light) I don't understand what this means. Liberals see the light about what? Plenty of Republican leaders are anti- 1st Amendment, including those who push for this country to be a Christian theocracy instead of having freedom of religion. Furthermore, Trump's/MAGA's pro-fascism philosophy flies directly against freedoms of speech and expression. Are you saying that that both sides have "shared values" for or against the 1st Amendment? I don't see 1A being a "shared" focus for these two parties, since Republicans are clearly more anti-1A than Democrats are. I think it is because you think in categories of "Republican leaders" Divide is between conservatives and liberals en masse. Calls for censoring misinformation, malformation, disinformation, hate speech arent really conservative thing.
Oh sweet summer child they absolutely are.
They didn’t suddenly stop being the censorious creatures they were in my youth.
They’ll sell you free speech, until they get in a position of power and then trample all over it. Look at Elon Musk and Twitter for Exhibit A of this. Look at the frothing at the mouth and calls for righteous vengeance because people mocked Charlie Kirk for Exhibit B. There are many exhibits incidentally.
Many moderate conservatives aren’t much different from most on the left, they still value freedom of speech, but also do recognise some of the challenges that come with the modern information sphere especially.
Libertarians also tend to actually believe in a more absolutist approach to free speech, which I don’t always agree with but does tend to be consistent
|
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information.
Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner?
|
The state of affairs would be comical if it weren‘t so sad.
Guy Fawkes night blunder had me laughing for 30 minutes.
|
From the pictures posted with him holding guns and his father being a "Preacher" and LEO of sorts and the family rather conservative.... just gets me the idea that this guy was educated to view guns and violence as "options" to protect his family.
Doesn't seem like he was a vocal trans-acceptance activist or something like that. Just that he identified Charlie Kirk as a threat, and dealt with the threat the way he was brought up.
He was 13 when the US burried politics and made DJT president, replacing policy with PR.
|
On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: Show nested quote +On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it.
I would agree. TR's hatred was directed at Charlie Kirk the hateful political activist, not Charlie Kirk the hateful person. He didn't shoot Kirk because Kirk was kicking puppies or beating homeless people. That means it was an assassination based on Kirk's expression of political views.
But as you correctly point out that doesn't imply TR was either left or right. He may've chosen Kirk as his target based on the demographics Kirk expressed hatred for, and not based on the ideology Kirk represented.
Again, that's according to the text exchange, which may or may not be real.
|
On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information.
You are free to point out what part of my conclusions don't seem right to you and why. We have way more then we had when people were reaching conclusions he was antifa or trans activist or groyper.
There are details that I listed and they, to me, indicate what I wrote.
I doubt a lot more can or will come out, this guy, according to everyone interviewed so far (including his partner, family and friends) was not overtly political, you are free to challenge that assessment, I very clearly explained what I base it on.
What kind of details do you expect to come?
On September 17 2025 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
Again, that's according to the text exchange, which may or may not be real.
I'm pretty sure that court submitted logs from the phones of a perpetrator and their partner for the highest profile case in a long time can be trusted, I don't see any reason to doubt what is in them. This is all very official and serious stuff, all the details are consistent with everything we know about the crime, videos that came out earlier, casings etc.
|
On September 17 2025 21:39 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information. Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner?
I said it unlikely that he was right wing and more likely has left wing views. I think the evidence so far at least supports that theory, some of the other people on here were very quick to label him as a right wing person with even less information than we have now. LightSpectra basically repeatedly shut down the idea that he had a trans partner despite the numerous outlets that reported on it because he needed a better source but was quick to label the guy as a right wing groyper based off one photo of him in 2018. The hypocrisy is hilarious.
|
On September 17 2025 21:55 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 21:39 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information. Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner? I said it unlikely that he was right wing and more likely has left wing views. I think the evidence so far at least supports that theory, some of the other people on here were very quick to label him as a right wing person with even less information than we have now. LightSpectra basically repeatedly shut down the idea that he had a trans partner despite the numerous outlets that reported on it because he needed a better source but was quick to label the guy as a right wing groyper based off one photo of him in 2018. The hypocrisy is hilarious.
Oh, thank you, I thought you were trying to be sincerely cautious, this comment tells me that's not it.
You just don't agree with the conclusions that are fairly obvious if you read the actual court documents because you want this guy to be what you want him to be.
|
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On September 17 2025 21:55 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 21:39 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information. Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner? I said it unlikely that he was right wing and more likely has left wing views. I think the evidence so far at least supports that theory, some of the other people on here were very quick to label him as a right wing person with even less information than we have now. LightSpectra basically repeatedly shut down the idea that he had a trans partner despite the numerous outlets that reported on it because he needed a better source but was quick to label the guy as a right wing groyper based off one photo of him in 2018. The hypocrisy is hilarious.
You said it was both ‘absurd’ and ‘insane’ in two separate posts. Those are not synonyms for ‘unlikely’.
How is that any different from Spectra jumping to conclusions in lieu of all the facts? If you seemed happy to completely rule out any kind of right-wing motivation just a few pages ago?
|
I find the sentiment "He can't be right wing, if he was in love with a transperson". hilarious.
On September 17 2025 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
....
That means it was an assassination based on Kirk's expression of political views.
But as you correctly point out that doesn't imply TR was either left or right. He may've chosen Kirk as his target based on the demographics Kirk expressed hatred for, and not based on the ideology Kirk represented.
....
You got it. Expressing hatred based on Religion/Race/Gender/Sexual orientation is not expressing a political view.
That's just being a threat to other people's existence.
Americans and especially right-wing people in my mind have a rather narrow approach to combat existencial threats.
(Hint: It's always involving guns!)
|
On September 17 2025 22:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 21:55 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 21:39 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information. Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner? I said it unlikely that he was right wing and more likely has left wing views. I think the evidence so far at least supports that theory, some of the other people on here were very quick to label him as a right wing person with even less information than we have now. LightSpectra basically repeatedly shut down the idea that he had a trans partner despite the numerous outlets that reported on it because he needed a better source but was quick to label the guy as a right wing groyper based off one photo of him in 2018. The hypocrisy is hilarious. You said it was both ‘absurd’ and ‘insane’ in two separate posts. Those are not synonyms for ‘unlikely’. How is that any different from Spectra jumping to conclusions in lieu of all the facts? If you seemed happy to completely rule out any kind of right-wing motivation just a few pages ago?
I should have used the word unlikely in my post a few pages back instead of absurd, that’s my fault given the lack of definitive evidence so far.
|
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On September 17 2025 22:27 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2025 22:11 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 21:55 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 21:39 WombaT wrote:On September 17 2025 21:18 castleeMg wrote:On September 17 2025 20:50 Jankisa wrote:a person who advocates thorough or complete political or social change, or a member of a political party or section of a party pursuing such aims. This is the definition of radical. This guy took a radical action, but from everything that is out and confirmed, he was not a radical anything, right or left. There is no need to speculate, you can read what he wrote, there are many details in the logs and statements that confirm this. His partner was shocked by this, if this was someone who was radicalized and spoke about politics a lot (again, no proof of this in the logs, either discord or between his partner and him) this would be less of a shock to everyone who actually knew them. Again, there is no proof that this guy was a radical who did this in order to pursue goals of a political party or side. These text logs were released by the prosecutor in the case, the Discord logs are from Ken Klipperstein who is a well known and pretty reliable journalist. The casings being a "big meme" is from the text logs which are in court documents. So is: On September 10, 2025, the roommate received a text message from Robinson which said,
“drop what you are doing, look under my keyboard.” The roommate looked under the keyboard
and found a note that stated, “I had the opportunity to take out Charlie Kirk and I’m going to take
it.” Police found a photograph of this note.
The following text exchange then took place.
8
After reading the note, the roommate responded, “What?????????????? You’re joking,
right????”
Robinson: I am still ok my love, but am stuck in orem for a little while longer yet.
Shouldn’t be long until I can come home, but I gotta grab my rifle still. To
be honest I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age. I am sorry
to involve you.
Roommate: you weren’t the one who did it right????
Robinson: I am, I’m sorry
Roommate: I thought they caught the person?
Robinson: no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in
similar clothing. I had planned to grab my rifle from my drop point shortly
after, but most of that side of town got locked down. Its quiet, almost
enough to get out, but theres one vehicle lingering.
Roommate: Why?
Robinson: Why did I do it?
Roommate: Yeah
Robinson: I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can’t be negotiated out. If I am able
to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to
retrieve it again, hopefully they have moved on. I haven’t seen anything
about them finding it.
…
Roommate: How long have you been planning this?
Robinson: a bit over a week I believe. I can get close to it but there is a squad car
parked right by it. I think they already swept that spot, but I don’t wanna
chance it Again, no need to speculate, this was his motivation. It absolutely is not normal for a person to make these plans and execute them based on "I had enough of his hate", but this is all we got. CK was hateful towards people like Robinson and his partner. He is a disturbed young man who snapped and did a crazy thing. No different then a school shooter or the guy from Butler. This won't stop the right from retconning this into "left wing radical violence", but this was not it. How can you definitively derive that he was not a radical of either left or right just by this text exchange alone? Apparently Tyler has been uncooperative so far with authorities but there will be more details to come I’m sure but stop jumping to black and white conclusions based off such little information. Didn’t you do exactly that when saying he couldn’t possibly have been motivated by right wing ideology because he had a trans partner? I said it unlikely that he was right wing and more likely has left wing views. I think the evidence so far at least supports that theory, some of the other people on here were very quick to label him as a right wing person with even less information than we have now. LightSpectra basically repeatedly shut down the idea that he had a trans partner despite the numerous outlets that reported on it because he needed a better source but was quick to label the guy as a right wing groyper based off one photo of him in 2018. The hypocrisy is hilarious. You said it was both ‘absurd’ and ‘insane’ in two separate posts. Those are not synonyms for ‘unlikely’. How is that any different from Spectra jumping to conclusions in lieu of all the facts? If you seemed happy to completely rule out any kind of right-wing motivation just a few pages ago? I should have used the word unlikely in my post a few pages back instead of absurd, that’s my fault given the lack of definitive evidence so far.
Fair enough
|
I didn't jump to any conclusions. The opposite: I wanted an investigative journalist to confirm something the Utah governor said without evidence.
There were a bunch of groyper memes on the bullets the FBI talked about. I also said that doesn't necessarily mean the shooter was right-wing (aside from one comment earlier where I mockingly said something like "Well look at that, right-wing shooter" against oBlade who already decided it was the "deranged left" before literally anything was known about the shooter), they could be mentally disturbed and not necessarily political.
I sure do look hypocritical when you ignore half the stuff I wrote, yeah.
On September 17 2025 22:19 KT_Elwood wrote:
I find the sentiment "He can't be right wing, if he was in love with a transperson". hilarious.
As I said before: There have been a number of cases of segregationists/Klansmen with black mistresses, (Neo-)Nazis with Jewish mistresses, homophobic Christian nationalists caught with gay prostitutes, etc. Considering how much hypocrisy is endemic to the right, there's nothing surprising about it anymore.
|
On September 17 2025 22:19 KT_Elwood wrote:
You got it. Expressing hatred based on Religion/Race/Gender/Sexual orientation is not expressing a political view.
That's just being a threat to other people's existence.
Americans and especially right-wing people in my mind have a rather narrow approach to combat existencial threats.
(Hint: It's always involving guns!)
This. It stops being a political view when it starts being about actively revoking the rights and freedoms of others. Would you say it's a political view to, say, segregate federal facilities on the basis of race? Or deny asian people healthcare at 'white' hospitals? How about advocating honor killings for rape victims? There needs to be a line drawn, and the people who express desires beyond the line of civility should be rightly ostracized and not given a platform. The problem is that people have become so desensitized to this shit (not to mention conservative orgs like prager U and TPU, andrew tate and the like purposely indoctrinating kids through social media, while accusing leftists and moderates who make overtures or educational content for kids to be grooming them) that the overton window has shifted so wildly it I'm not sure we can recover short of getting our asses handed to us in a war, which will not happen.
Conservatism is based on holding moral superiority, and that makes those who fall under its purview much more cavalier with who gets to be a person, who gets access to civic institutions, etc. If there is a right that only minorities or undesirables exercise, it will be cut, with the sole exception of perceived 'free enterprise' (i.e. deregulation of corporations and private capital). This has been the outcome of conservatism in every industrial society since Malthus.
|
In other news, FOX, Breitbart, Russia Today, etc. and other right-wing news outlets are reporting Destiny was banned from Twitch for 'celebrating Kirk's death'. He was actually banned years ago for a transphobic joke. They didn't bother investigating to check that: https://xcancel.com/theomniliberal/status/1968007717798416411?s=46
|
News outlets caring about Destiny is truly the worst timeline...
|
On September 18 2025 00:03 LightSpectra wrote:
I didn't jump to any conclusions. The opposite: I wanted an investigative journalist to confirm something the Utah governor said without evidence.
There were a bunch of groyper memes on the bullets the FBI talked about. I also said that doesn't necessarily mean the shooter was right-wing (aside from one comment earlier where I mockingly said something like "Well look at that, right-wing shooter" against oBlade who already decided it was the "deranged left" before literally anything was known about the shooter), they could be mentally disturbed and not necessarily political.
You said he was a Trump donor.
|
On September 18 2025 00:25 LightSpectra wrote:In other news, FOX, Breitbart, Russia Today, etc. and other right-wing news outlets are reporting Destiny was banned from Twitch for 'celebrating Kirk's death'. He was actually banned years ago for a transphobic joke. They didn't bother investigating to check that: https://xcancel.com/theomniliberal/status/1968007717798416411?s=46 Atleast they are making it obvious they are all getting their news from the same source...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
