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On September 10 2025 06:20 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:15 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's hilarious that all these guys have is "well, we are just doing what Fox news told us the left was doing all along".
It's insane power grabs justified by misinterpreted lies, and our resident intellectual right winger fascist boot licker Introvert is presenting it as some sort of a gotcha.
No democratic president has ever:
* used the office of the president to promote it's businesses or businesses of his buddies
* received insane bribes from foreign dignitaries such as golden fucking jets that will cost the US citizens a billion to take apart and check for bugs
* used tariffs as a means to enact personal vendettas against countries that refused to nominate him for Nobel peace prize
* sent troops to American (always blue) cities in a completely illegal manner even when explicitely refused by the governor of that state (can I get one hell yeah from the "states rights" crowd)
* used the office of the president to promote his Crypto meme coins or do very obvious market manipulation by tweeting shit and buying up the specific coins before doing so
* nominated people with incredibly obvious conflict of interest into positions in the DOJ (his personal lawyers) and had them conduct interviews with sex traffickers which (shockingly) exonerate them, only for the same DOJ to give the sex trafficker special treatment
* directed his agencies to pull permits from basically finished projects because he doesn't like windmills
And a million other things that are damaging not only to the US economy but it's world wide reputation. And all this guy has to say to all of this is "but democrats[/republicans]". Honestly pathetic. That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. What if you can‘t abstain because there‘s soldiers with machineguns outside the booth checking what you vote for ? That‘s more or less what European leaders must be dealing with at the moment when it comes to calibrating their US-Russia relationships. And they chose the US before it decided to tariff them anyway.
Pretty sure that if there's soldiers with machine guns, they aren't checking whether you voted, but whether you voted for the right guy. And if the choice is "vote for Hitler or eat lead, I'm of the opinion that living to fight another day is a valid option" (also, obviously, because if they have that kind of power already, it really doesn't matter who you vote for: it's a foregone conclusion).
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On September 10 2025 05:03 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:15 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's hilarious that all these guys have is "well, we are just doing what Fox news told us the left was doing all along".
It's insane power grabs justified by misinterpreted lies, and our resident intellectual right winger fascist boot licker Introvert is presenting it as some sort of a gotcha.
No democratic president has ever:
* used the office of the president to promote it's businesses or businesses of his buddies
* received insane bribes from foreign dignitaries such as golden fucking jets that will cost the US citizens a billion to take apart and check for bugs
* used tariffs as a means to enact personal vendettas against countries that refused to nominate him for Nobel peace prize
* sent troops to American (always blue) cities in a completely illegal manner even when explicitely refused by the governor of that state (can I get one hell yeah from the "states rights" crowd)
* used the office of the president to promote his Crypto meme coins or do very obvious market manipulation by tweeting shit and buying up the specific coins before doing so
* nominated people with incredibly obvious conflict of interest into positions in the DOJ (his personal lawyers) and had them conduct interviews with sex traffickers which (shockingly) exonerate them, only for the same DOJ to give the sex trafficker special treatment
* directed his agencies to pull permits from basically finished projects because he doesn't like windmills
And a million other things that are damaging not only to the US economy but it's world wide reputation. And all this guy has to say to all of this is "but democrats[/republicans]". Honestly pathetic. That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. + Show Spoiler +
This does basically says exactly what GH said though (even though you arent american) you would vote for every Republican out of principle, based on what youve said here your principles on when to not vote for someone are somewhere between Trump and Hitler/Pol Pot and if Trump isnt close enough to Hitler/Pol Pot to prevent you from voting for him then the rest of the GOP probably aren't either.
I dont strictly grasp what point GH is making here, but this is the sort of response that I think hes referring to in his post.
Its not like this conversation hasnt been had here before either, its literally true that plenty of people here have said that they would vote for whoever is the lesser of two evils in basically any and every instance which means they would, out of that lesser of two evils principle, be willing to vote for Hitler, Pol Pot, Trump, every GOP scumbag etc.
What GH means to show by highlighting this sentiment Im too tired to glean, but from what I can see his post seems fairly correct + Show Spoiler +, if over broad if taken out of the context of this thread.
Basically...
Poll: I would vote forYou must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Donald Trump
☐ Viktor Yanukovych
☐ Maidan
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Consider creating an alt account. In general it's an absurd theoretical question that I may or may not want to answer. Coming from you, it's like participating in Crimean elections. The best move is not to play.
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On September 10 2025 06:24 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 06:20 Vivax wrote:On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. What if you can‘t abstain because there‘s soldiers with machineguns outside the booth checking what you vote for ? That‘s more or less what European leaders must be dealing with at the moment when it comes to calibrating their US-Russia relationships. And they chose the US before it decided to tariff them anyway. Pretty sure that if there's soldiers with machine guns, they aren't checking whether you voted, but whether you voted for the right guy. And if the choice is "vote for Hitler or eat lead, I'm of the opinion that living to fight another day is a valid option" (also, obviously, because if they have that kind of power already, it really doesn't matter who you vote for: it's a foregone conclusion).
That‘s part of what happened or so I was taught at school.
Politicians in Europe don‘t have the luxury of being able to stand up to Trump considering that he makes realistic threats.
It‘s going to be costly when it comes to opposing Russia and accepting the almost imposed authoritarianism as mainstream.
And it‘s not even guaranteed that he‘s going to uphold his end of the bargains as often demonstrated.
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Northern Ireland26055 Posts
On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol
If non-MAGA conservatives continually toe the MAGA line, often enthusiastically, at what point does one have to drop the idea they’re separate entities even if one is being extremely charitable? Either as some new, chimeric beast, or alternatively one where the parasite has taken over the host.
Acrofales more eloquently expanded on what I was touching on earlier, agreed 100% with that.
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On September 10 2025 06:31 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 05:03 Zambrah wrote:On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. + Show Spoiler +
This does basically says exactly what GH said though (even though you arent american) you would vote for every Republican out of principle, based on what youve said here your principles on when to not vote for someone are somewhere between Trump and Hitler/Pol Pot and if Trump isnt close enough to Hitler/Pol Pot to prevent you from voting for him then the rest of the GOP probably aren't either.
I dont strictly grasp what point GH is making here, but this is the sort of response that I think hes referring to in his post.
Its not like this conversation hasnt been had here before either, its literally true that plenty of people here have said that they would vote for whoever is the lesser of two evils in basically any and every instance which means they would, out of that lesser of two evils principle, be willing to vote for Hitler, Pol Pot, Trump, every GOP scumbag etc.
What GH means to show by highlighting this sentiment Im too tired to glean, but from what I can see his post seems fairly correct + Show Spoiler +, if over broad if taken out of the context of this thread. Basically... Poll: I would vote forYou must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Donald Trump
☐ Viktor Yanukovych
☐ Maidan
How does a coup of a democracy funded by the evil capitalists of the west help America? Or have you changed your opinion on Ukraine?
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On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person.
I doubt they’re the same person, they’re just political nihilists who don’t really believe in anything but “winning” and eradicating the opposition. All of these guys are the same, look at r/conservative and what these guys post in these threads.
Like the only thing we’ve got out of either of them regarding the US administration buying a stake in Intel is like a one sentence deflection that they, in fact, can be critical of the administration. Despite their wholesale support for DOGE ripping the copper from the walls, they should be the first people screaming about this administration going against their goal to cut waste.
Do you know where the administration found the cash to invest in Intel? The CHIPS Act had milestones that Intel had to meet to get continued government assistance but Intel is such a dogshit company that they couldn’t meet those milestones.
Intel is a moribund company: their processors are not competitive against RISC or AMD’s X86 processors in every market segment, their foundries have hit brick wall after brick wall and are just not competitive against TSMC or Samsung. They’re shedding technical staff left and right and are in the process of potentially spinning off their foundries in the same way AMD did with GlobalFoundries. It’s a business no one wants to invest in and management is pulling coppers from the walls to pump the books.
All it took was a personal meeting with Trump and Trump’s obsession with making “deals” for Trump to shovel that missed milestone cash into Intel coffers. A government handout to a business that couldn’t fulfil what it was asked to achieve. So instead of just saving the cash from the “horrible thing”, the administration just threw the cash “saved” from this horrible thing into a horrible company that will absolutely do nothing with this investment beyond continuing its downward spiral. Even if we ignore this act of throwing bad money after good money, there’s now a huge conflict of interest.
The only convincing argument for the investment is that Intel is the only US horse available in a world Taiwan gets invaded and the US doesn’t intend to intervene. So it had to be done, even though Intel is a 25 year old horse with a history of leg fractures and bad joints.
But no, the ardent defenders of DOGE have barely mentioned anything about the Intel investment because it doesn’t suit their goal of debatelording with random peoples on the internet. It directly contradicts the idea that this administration even cares about fiscal responsibility.
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On September 10 2025 03:36 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol I think you might be confusing the actual constitution with what the left is wanting: that the government uphold the humanist values that underpin it. And sure, the constitution is securely founded on Lockean principles, and I doubt many of us are Lockeans. But the values of a Lockean society and a government trying to uphold them would absolutely and undoubtedly be preferable to the cronyism and self-aggrandization that seems to be the singular focus of the executive branch at the moment, with neither the legislative nor judiciary branches doing much of anything to halt it. Locke, Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton are all spinning in their graves right now at the travesty that is the "republican" party selling out wholesale to someone who seems, by all accounts, far worse than King George was.
Well if humanist values are what underpin the Constitution then we could do with more than the occasional paean to it. I think the Founders would object to much of what we do, but again I think many on the left just a decade ago would scoff at the very idea of caring either way. Like I said, I'm not in favor of any of these thing I just think it has to get worse before it has a chance to get better. Moreover I would say that in much political discourse today the discussion of such principles is highly selective. Hence why DACA can be ok to the vast number of people whose opinion we are supposed to care about but actually enforcing immigration laws is considered unseemly and cruel. It doesn't take much imagination to see why some might start to consider the whole thing a Lucy-and-the-football situation.
On September 10 2025 07:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol If non-MAGA conservatives continually toe the MAGA line, often enthusiastically, at what point does one have to drop the idea they’re separate entities even if one is being extremel y charitable? Either as some new, chimeric beast, or alternatively one where the parasite has taken over the host. Acrofales more eloquently expanded on what I was touching on earlier, agreed 100% with that.
See above. But also, Trump has done a lot of things conservatives have wanted. Roe v. Wade overturned with the help of his appointed justices (wanted for a long time), taxes at the very least not raised (a general preference), securing the border (another long sought goal), a properly skeptical view of the federal bureaucracy (tactics to be debated). And of course the fact that he takes the slings and arrows and doesn't really throw his more conservative supporters under the bus engenders a lot of good will and trust. We saw this with the last administration, a lot can be overlooked when you like most of what you see and when you consider who is attacking "your guy."
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On September 10 2025 12:43 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 03:36 Acrofales wrote:On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol I think you might be confusing the actual constitution with what the left is wanting: that the government uphold the humanist values that underpin it. And sure, the constitution is securely founded on Lockean principles, and I doubt many of us are Lockeans. But the values of a Lockean society and a government trying to uphold them would absolutely and undoubtedly be preferable to the cronyism and self-aggrandization that seems to be the singular focus of the executive branch at the moment, with neither the legislative nor judiciary branches doing much of anything to halt it. Locke, Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton are all spinning in their graves right now at the travesty that is the "republican" party selling out wholesale to someone who seems, by all accounts, far worse than King George was. Well if humanist values are what underpin the Constitution then we could do with more than the occasional paean to it. I think the Founders would object to much of what we do, but again I think many on the left just a decade ago would scoff at the very idea of caring either way. Like I said, I'm not in favor of any of these thing I just think it has to get worse before it has a chance to get better. Moreover I would say that in much political discourse today the discussion of such principles is highly selective. Hence why DACA can be ok to the vast number of people whose opinion we are supposed to care about but actually enforcing immigration laws is considered unseemly and cruel. It doesn't take much imagination to see why some might start to consider the whole thing a Lucy-and-the-football situation. Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 07:44 WombaT wrote:On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol If non-MAGA conservatives continually toe the MAGA line, often enthusiastically, at what point does one have to drop the idea they’re separate entities even if one is being extremel y charitable? Either as some new, chimeric beast, or alternatively one where the parasite has taken over the host. Acrofales more eloquently expanded on what I was touching on earlier, agreed 100% with that. See above. But also, Trump has done a lot of things conservatives have wanted. Roe v. Wade overturned with the help of his appointed justices (wanted for a long time), taxes at the very least not raised (a general preference), securing the border (another long sought goal), a properly skeptical view of the federal bureaucracy (tactics to be debated). And of course the fact that he takes the slings and arrows and doesn't really throw his more conservative supporters under the bus engenders a lot of good will and trust. We saw this with the last administration, a lot can be overlooked when you like most of what you see and when you consider who is attacking "your guy."
Could we though? I think most people, American or otherwise, praise the American constitution as a forward-thinking document of its time. But most also recognize that its time was almost 3 centuries ago. It's fair to say that some of the processes and systems it lays out to ensure fair government are, quite simply, not of this time, and the ideals underpinning the constitution are no longer represented.
For further emphasis: it took a civil war to get black people *any* rights, and equal rights for women (let alone black people) got torpedoed with the ERA amendment somewhere between failed and eternal limbo. These are very basic protections for humans that in the 18th century it was entirely normal to consider as not-quite-human. Meanwhile we have pragmatic restrictions caused by 18th-century technology, baked into the mechanisms for election. We have a severely underspecified right to bear arms and a plethora of unforeseen consequences thereof. And for some reason a supreme court that ruled that money is speech according to the constitution. Although the latter could just be a total brainfart, and not actually require a constitutional amendment to fix.
And I'm not saying other democracies were any better in the 18th, 19th or 20th centuries. The US was generally a leader in humanist values, being one of the first to abolish slavery, recognise women's rights, and generally ensure free and fair elections in choosing their leaders. Quite unlike the contemporary fledgling republic of France (which promptly turned to tyranny and empire instead of the values of Voltaire), or the extreme reticence of other colonial powers such as Brazil, the Ottoman Empire or China to abolish slavery (although neither of the latter two ever claimed any kind of humanist heritage), the US did ultimately uphold the humanist values it was founded on. Similarly, it fought against fascism in WW2, and against Stalinism in the cold war. These are not trivial accomplishments.
It is therefore all the more painful to watch the US abandon those values without even so much as a fight. Progress has stalled or receded on equal rights for many minorities (blacks, LGBTQ) and even majorities such as women's rights. Meanwhile you stand by your fascist wannabe tin-pot-dictator, proudly proclaiming the magnificence of his new clothes, all because he pays lip service to things you claim to believe in. Thee same Trump who you claim is lowering taxes is not doing so by being fiscally prudent, but rather by just borrowing more. He claims to be improving government efficiency while renaming the department of defense for no apparent reason. He claims to be reducing government overreach while deploying the national guard without consent. He isn't living by your values, he's bamboozling you with them. And you're gobbling it up like it's ambrosia, because at least he isn't extending DACA!
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On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:15 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's hilarious that all these guys have is "well, we are just doing what Fox news told us the left was doing all along".
It's insane power grabs justified by misinterpreted lies, and our resident intellectual right winger fascist boot licker Introvert is presenting it as some sort of a gotcha.
No democratic president has ever:
* used the office of the president to promote it's businesses or businesses of his buddies
* received insane bribes from foreign dignitaries such as golden fucking jets that will cost the US citizens a billion to take apart and check for bugs
* used tariffs as a means to enact personal vendettas against countries that refused to nominate him for Nobel peace prize
* sent troops to American (always blue) cities in a completely illegal manner even when explicitely refused by the governor of that state (can I get one hell yeah from the "states rights" crowd)
* used the office of the president to promote his Crypto meme coins or do very obvious market manipulation by tweeting shit and buying up the specific coins before doing so
* nominated people with incredibly obvious conflict of interest into positions in the DOJ (his personal lawyers) and had them conduct interviews with sex traffickers which (shockingly) exonerate them, only for the same DOJ to give the sex trafficker special treatment
* directed his agencies to pull permits from basically finished projects because he doesn't like windmills
And a million other things that are damaging not only to the US economy but it's world wide reputation. And all this guy has to say to all of this is "but democrats[/republicans]". Honestly pathetic. That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain.
Wasn't that exactly GH position last election, for which he took a lot of heat?
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On September 10 2025 16:08 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:15 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's hilarious that all these guys have is "well, we are just doing what Fox news told us the left was doing all along".
It's insane power grabs justified by misinterpreted lies, and our resident intellectual right winger fascist boot licker Introvert is presenting it as some sort of a gotcha.
No democratic president has ever:
* used the office of the president to promote it's businesses or businesses of his buddies
* received insane bribes from foreign dignitaries such as golden fucking jets that will cost the US citizens a billion to take apart and check for bugs
* used tariffs as a means to enact personal vendettas against countries that refused to nominate him for Nobel peace prize
* sent troops to American (always blue) cities in a completely illegal manner even when explicitely refused by the governor of that state (can I get one hell yeah from the "states rights" crowd)
* used the office of the president to promote his Crypto meme coins or do very obvious market manipulation by tweeting shit and buying up the specific coins before doing so
* nominated people with incredibly obvious conflict of interest into positions in the DOJ (his personal lawyers) and had them conduct interviews with sex traffickers which (shockingly) exonerate them, only for the same DOJ to give the sex trafficker special treatment
* directed his agencies to pull permits from basically finished projects because he doesn't like windmills
And a million other things that are damaging not only to the US economy but it's world wide reputation. And all this guy has to say to all of this is "but democrats[/republicans]". Honestly pathetic. That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. Wasn't that exactly GH position last election, for which he took a lot of heat?
I don't think he took a lot of heat for that. I think he took a lot heat for advocating not voting, or voting third party, in the actual election between Trump and Harris. The point Drone is making is that clearly neither Trump nor Harris are as bad as Pol Pot or Hitler and thus holding your nose and voting for the lesser evil is not necessarily the path to hell. GH disagrees and seems to think the red line of unacceptable leaders was somewhere roughly 15 presidents ago, and since then they've all been Pol Pot levels of shit. Which is a pretty bad take and he deservedly took heat for.
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WOW the r\conservative Subreddit has suddenly swung hard against dear leader and having a hard time to surpress.. Trump critical posts.
- "I am unenployed for 2 months now - confidence in new job finding at all time low"
- "Our sales are down 20%"
- "Why is he wasting time with unconstitutional EOs?"
- "Epstein Files!"
- "Deficit is exploding, BBB is to blame"
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White House: Trump was not an FBI informant on Epstein
White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt said Tuesday that President Trump was not an FBI informant in the Jeffrey Epstein case, after Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) last week suggested he may have been.
“I can affirm that is not true,” Leavitt said in response to a question about Johnson’s comments. “I think the Speaker was referring to the fact that President Trump kicked Jeffrey Epstein out of his Mar-a-Lago property for reasons the president has already discussed.”
Trump has faced sustained pressure from Democrats and some Republicans to release more information about Epstein, the disgraced financier and sex offender. Some Democrats have suggested Trump may have something to hide because of his past affiliations with Epstein.
Johnson told CNN’s Manu Raju last Friday that Trump “was an FBI informant to try to take this stuff down,” referring to the president’s eventual falling out with Epstein nearly two decades ago.
the FBI informant that wasn't. the "Epstein hoax" that somehow has real victims.
the reckoning for these deplorable lying sacks of shit brewing.
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On September 10 2025 16:08 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote:On September 09 2025 23:57 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 23:37 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 23:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:55 Jankisa wrote:On September 09 2025 21:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:46 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 09 2025 21:15 Jankisa wrote:+ Show Spoiler +It's hilarious that all these guys have is "well, we are just doing what Fox news told us the left was doing all along".
It's insane power grabs justified by misinterpreted lies, and our resident intellectual right winger fascist boot licker Introvert is presenting it as some sort of a gotcha.
No democratic president has ever:
* used the office of the president to promote it's businesses or businesses of his buddies
* received insane bribes from foreign dignitaries such as golden fucking jets that will cost the US citizens a billion to take apart and check for bugs
* used tariffs as a means to enact personal vendettas against countries that refused to nominate him for Nobel peace prize
* sent troops to American (always blue) cities in a completely illegal manner even when explicitely refused by the governor of that state (can I get one hell yeah from the "states rights" crowd)
* used the office of the president to promote his Crypto meme coins or do very obvious market manipulation by tweeting shit and buying up the specific coins before doing so
* nominated people with incredibly obvious conflict of interest into positions in the DOJ (his personal lawyers) and had them conduct interviews with sex traffickers which (shockingly) exonerate them, only for the same DOJ to give the sex trafficker special treatment
* directed his agencies to pull permits from basically finished projects because he doesn't like windmills
And a million other things that are damaging not only to the US economy but it's world wide reputation. And all this guy has to say to all of this is "but democrats[/republicans]". Honestly pathetic. That one line is US politics in a nutshell. It's not like Democrats couldn't/wouldn't vote for the whole slate of Republican politicians currently in office (including Trump) out of principle. GH repeating another Republican talking point, color me surprised. It's a literal fact. Libs/Dems/ilk rejecting facts that they don't like, color me surprised... That is the difference between you and me, GH, I don't believe that, I know plenty of Americans, I don't think many Democrats would vote for Trump just because he had D next to his name. + Show Spoiler +You derided Democrats for campaigning with Liz Chaney and blamed their electoral failings (partially) on that, that is completely incompatible with what you just wrote.
The fact that you do think that Democrats=Republcians says a lot about you and your view of the world, and to me just shows, once again that you hate the USA and are basically a Tankie. + Show Spoiler +I like the USA, I would be a very different and in many ways less successful and culturally very different person if the USA didn't exist, I don't think you can slot China in the place of USA and have the world be as cool of a place as it is. All of us certainty wouldn't be posting on a TL forum (US company/team) that was created by and for fans of a game like Starcraft.
Unfortunately, Republicans and all conservatives want the USA to be more like China and Russia, most (not even close to all) Democrat politicians want it to be like Clinton's USA or Thatcher's UK.
USA, like most other countries contains multitudes, unfortunately, you guys have a duopoly in your politics, which is a double edged sword, on the one hand, this duopoly makes sure that the pendulum keeps swinging, on the other, it flattens the parties quite a bit, but nowhere close to what you are trying to present it as. I'm talking about "lesser evilists" (which is basically everyone here and the overwhelming majority of the Democrat party). They literally could/would vote for Trump and any other Republican. This isn't disputable. I literally don't think Democrats=Republicans, so that isn't a fact. Republicans, by pretty much any metric, are worse than Democrats. Try to integrate that information into your next assessment please. You make 2 false assertions right from the get go. You can't just say something and pretend like it's an accepted truth. I very much doubt the vast majority of regular posters here who actually have the right to vote in the USA would ever vote for Trump, so that is very much disputable. You might not "think" that, but you write and act in a way where everyone who reads you can come to the conclusion that you do. The burden of proof is on you, and all you do, including this latest screed is to prove us otherwise. + Show Spoiler +Normal people who haven't had their brain fried by politics to the point you have understand that the only way any of us can go through life without losing our minds is by choosing the lesser evil.
In the last 2 presidential elections in Croatia I bit my tongue and voted for a guy who I have a very low opinion of, mostly because from a Social Democrat he turned into a Trump cosplaying populist who seems to be on the take from Russia, but, he is smart, eloquent and shares most of my values, he also doesn't have a lot of power and he serves as a counterweight to our criminal organization party in power.
I could have purity tested him and said fuck this, encouraged most of my friends and family to do the same and split the vote or vote for our version of a Republican, but I didn't, because I choose the lesser evil.
That is an adult thing to do. And I'm OK with my choice, he's still an asshole to Ukraine, but he is the only part of our national voice who spends time criticizing Israel. You get some, you lose some, that's life. You weren't really around for when they were first rationalizing "lesser evilism" , so I don't blame you, but yeah, they would. That's how "lesser evilism", as they've articulated it, works. You can verify that with any one of them. It's objectively (and obviously) true that Republicans ≠ Democrats. I don't have to prove that to you, nor do I have to prove that I believe it to you or anyone else. That assertion is preposterous. Seems you shouldn't go "ignor[ing] all that even when it was mentioned to [you] explicitly in the last page..." and fixate on your "alternative facts" that "don't care about feelings..." while self-congratulating with a "Owned [tankie punk]!" I mean if my options are a) Pol Pot b) 1943 Hitler c) Trump, I would indeed vote Trump. But not against any R or D candidate from the past 100 years. If my options are a) Pol Pot and b) 1943 Hitler, I guess I might abstain. Wasn't that exactly GH position last election, for which he took a lot of heat?
"Kamala Harris is basically Pol Pot" might be the absolute dumbest thought produced in this thread this week.
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Since the Sieg Heil = Kpop greeting we don't do such rankings anymore, it wouldn't be fair.
On September 10 2025 21:00 KT_Elwood wrote:
WOW the r\conservative Subreddit has suddenly swung hard against dear leader and having a hard time to surpress.. Trump critical posts.
- "I am unenployed for 2 months now - confidence in new job finding at all time low"
- "Our sales are down 20%"
- "Why is he wasting time with unconstitutional EOs?"
- "Epstein Files!"
- "Deficit is exploding, BBB is to blame"
When I check the sub this is all stuff Biden is to blame for, BBB is great but the spending cuts are just not deep enough, Clinton being in the Epstein book is the big story, ICE is awesome...
Honestly, not much of a change?
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Dissent in r/conservative gets deleted really fast except early morning in Moscow time.
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On September 10 2025 22:02 LightSpectra wrote:
Dissent in r/conservative gets deleted really fast except early morning in Moscow time. More commonly referred to as night in the US...
You know, the time where US moderators of the US conservative subreddit might reasonably be asleep.
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2am in Moscow time is 7pm in EST, they have an early bedtime?
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I wouldn't call 2 am morning, but sure.
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On September 10 2025 15:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2025 12:43 Introvert wrote:On September 10 2025 03:36 Acrofales wrote:On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol I think you might be confusing the actual constitution with what the left is wanting: that the government uphold the humanist values that underpin it. And sure, the constitution is securely founded on Lockean principles, and I doubt many of us are Lockeans. But the values of a Lockean society and a government trying to uphold them would absolutely and undoubtedly be preferable to the cronyism and self-aggrandization that seems to be the singular focus of the executive branch at the moment, with neither the legislative nor judiciary branches doing much of anything to halt it. Locke, Madison, Jefferson and Hamilton are all spinning in their graves right now at the travesty that is the "republican" party selling out wholesale to someone who seems, by all accounts, far worse than King George was. Well if humanist values are what underpin the Constitution then we could do with more than the occasional paean to it. I think the Founders would object to much of what we do, but again I think many on the left just a decade ago would scoff at the very idea of caring either way. Like I said, I'm not in favor of any of these thing I just think it has to get worse before it has a chance to get better. Moreover I would say that in much political discourse today the discussion of such principles is highly selective. Hence why DACA can be ok to the vast number of people whose opinion we are supposed to care about but actually enforcing immigration laws is considered unseemly and cruel. It doesn't take much imagination to see why some might start to consider the whole thing a Lucy-and-the-football situation. On September 10 2025 07:44 WombaT wrote:On September 10 2025 03:04 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:53 WombaT wrote:On September 09 2025 23:31 Introvert wrote:On September 09 2025 23:12 LightSpectra wrote: They cheered for DACA, for student loan forgiveness, they were silent or totally in denial about Biden's dereliction of duty at the border. DACA doesn't break any laws, the law that regulates student loans explicitly allows for the POTUS to forgive some at his discretion, and Biden explicitly asked Congress for more resources to secure the border and Republicans told him to fuck off because they wouldn't win the election if they couldn't campaign on the border still being broken from Trump's administration. Once again, made-up Republican scandals with no relation to reality whatsoever are used to justify actual authoritarianism. Might as well say that sending in the national guard to violate posse comitatus is totally cool because Obama was going to do it with Jade Helm, even though that was proven multiple times to be a hoax. I've argued about all these things before in this thread so I won't rehash, but all of those things are wrong. I guess quickly your contention about the border is embarrassing considering it was in trouble long before the failed bill and there was no crisis before or after. So again, there are people on the left who will justify anything, and will do so again for whatever the next Democrat does. I mean sure, some will do that. Equally many, especially amongst the further left of the populace will happily admit that the Constitution is too rigid thru outright anachronistic to adequately deal with modern problems. Even aside from the sheer volume of Trump’s trampling, especially in his second term, its conservatives at large who couch so much of their rhetoric and beliefs in adherence to the Constitution, and things like states rights, far more so than the left does. Thus critiques can by themselves be certainly valid, but start to ring entirely hollow when conservatives give their own a pass to trample over their own ostensible sacred cows with much greater frequency. No amount of ‘but the Dems’ can entirely sidestep that. Well first the Trump era has led to a newfound *rhetorical* respect for the constitution by Dems. Second, MAGA is its own thing. But a lot of people take the view expressed in the tweet I linked a little earlier. They see it as tit-for-tat. On September 10 2025 01:51 KwarK wrote:On September 09 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:On September 09 2025 23:20 Jankisa wrote:
Yeah Light, but Introvert will ignore all that even when it was mentioned to him explicitly in the last page, a few months ago, as it was happening because it doesn't fit his version of "reality".
He has alternative facts and his alternative facts don't care about your feelings. Owned, you liberal cuck!
These last 2 posts have made me more convinced then ever that he is just oBlade alt, like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde but both guys are the same person. Nah, I don't think they're the same. Introvert just repeats mainstream far-right talking points and then has a meltdown when people aren't convinced. oBlade comes up with the most insane shit you've ever heard in your life on the spot, like tariffs are actually good because they reduce corporate waste. Remember when Introvert explained that Seig Heils were the way K-pop mega fans communicate their enthusiasm for K-pop at political rallies? I do. For whatever it's worth the ADL had a similar opnion to mine. What is strange is how this K-pop add on you've been doing keeps changing? Unless I stopped reading closely at some point. I didn't say K-pop and I didn't say it was the fans. Always strange with you lol If non-MAGA conservatives continually toe the MAGA line, often enthusiastically, at what point does one have to drop the idea they’re separate entities even if one is being extremel y charitable? Either as some new, chimeric beast, or alternatively one where the parasite has taken over the host. Acrofales more eloquently expanded on what I was touching on earlier, agreed 100% with that. See above. But also, Trump has done a lot of things conservatives have wanted. Roe v. Wade overturned with the help of his appointed justices (wanted for a long time), taxes at the very least not raised (a general preference), securing the border (another long sought goal), a properly skeptical view of the federal bureaucracy (tactics to be debated). And of course the fact that he takes the slings and arrows and doesn't really throw his more conservative supporters under the bus engenders a lot of good will and trust. We saw this with the last administration, a lot can be overlooked when you like most of what you see and when you consider who is attacking "your guy." Could we though? I think most people, American or otherwise, praise the American constitution as a forward-thinking document of its time. But most also recognize that its time was almost 3 centuries ago. It's fair to say that some of the processes and systems it lays out to ensure fair government are, quite simply, not of this time, and the ideals underpinning the constitution are no longer represented. For further emphasis: it took a civil war to get black people *any* rights, and equal rights for women (let alone black people) got torpedoed with the ERA amendment somewhere between failed and eternal limbo. These are very basic protections for humans that in the 18th century it was entirely normal to consider as not-quite-human. Meanwhile we have pragmatic restrictions caused by 18th-century technology, baked into the mechanisms for election. We have a severely underspecified right to bear arms and a plethora of unforeseen consequences thereof. And for some reason a supreme court that ruled that money is speech according to the constitution. Although the latter could just be a total brainfart, and not actually require a constitutional amendment to fix. And I'm not saying other democracies were any better in the 18th, 19th or 20th centuries. The US was generally a leader in humanist values, being one of the first to abolish slavery, recognise women's rights, and generally ensure free and fair elections in choosing their leaders. Quite unlike the contemporary fledgling republic of France (which promptly turned to tyranny and empire instead of the values of Voltaire), or the extreme reticence of other colonial powers such as Brazil, the Ottoman Empire or China to abolish slavery (although neither of the latter two ever claimed any kind of humanist heritage), the US did ultimately uphold the humanist values it was founded on. Similarly, it fought against fascism in WW2, and against Stalinism in the cold war. These are not trivial accomplishments. It is therefore all the more painful to watch the US abandon those values without even so much as a fight. Progress has stalled or receded on equal rights for many minorities (blacks, LGBTQ) and even majorities such as women's rights. Meanwhile you stand by your fascist wannabe tin-pot-dictator, proudly proclaiming the magnificence of his new clothes, all because he pays lip service to things you claim to believe in. Thee same Trump who you claim is lowering taxes is not doing so by being fiscally prudent, but rather by just borrowing more. He claims to be improving government efficiency while renaming the department of defense for no apparent reason. He claims to be reducing government overreach while deploying the national guard without consent. He isn't living by your values, he's bamboozling you with them. And you're gobbling it up like it's ambrosia, because at least he isn't extending DACA!
Maybe I misunderstood you. You put it more elegantly than a Dem politician might but bouts of (always latent) dislike of the Constitutional system we have come up evey do often. It's been going on at least a hundred years and i might argue longer. This view that the document is outmoded naturally would make a conservative skeptical of Democrats and their boundary pushing. Why should i trust them at all on defending it when they can barely muster the will to talk about it positively?
Now I didn't vote for Trump, but it's incredibly easy to see why so many did. As I said the opposition is really, really bad. For example, I don’t share your views on abortion. We can go down the list. See Trump is not just claiming, things he is actually doing things conservatives want. I listed some of them already. You act like your priorities should be mine, but I think most of the American left has a terrible grasp on people who disagree with them. For example how many people do you think voted for Trump because they thought he was going to lower the debt? Maybe an decent number of people believed it, but most people who care about that issue in the first place didn't. Conservatives have gotten more out of Trump than anyone since Reagan, a remarkable thing to think about.
People making political trade-offs, especially since they don't embrace the "dictator-in-waiting" belief make it easy to see how many could vote for him. I watch people slamming GH here everyday for his purity, but yet ever so conveniently they also want every right winger to abstain or vote for a dem because in their own mind Trump doesn't meet the standards they think their opponents claim to have.
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EPT
