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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 01 2025 08:42 LightSpectra wrote:
Blue states are spending their own money killing gas and coal, any federal decarbonization plan is necessarily going to help red states more.
Why should it? If you asked the red states if they would like aid to decarbonize or to be taxed less what would be their answer? People cannot be helped if they don't want help.
Money should be given back to the states equally to the money that is given from the states. I'm sure the red state voters would love that argument.
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On July 01 2025 07:40 Acrofales wrote:
I will admit I find it hard to parse how GH thinks Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is not inevitable. I mean, I guess his point is that USAans cam en masse march on the capitol and use their first and second amendment rights to prevent it from being signed into law? But we all know that is only happening in his own fever dreams, so we're back to it being inevitable.
I don't wish suffering on anybody, but it's coming regardless. So I share the sentiment that I hope MAGA get a taste of their own medicine.
Duh, sign google form on general strike, yadda yadda, utopian socialism.
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On July 01 2025 08:58 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2025 08:42 LightSpectra wrote:
Blue states are spending their own money killing gas and coal, any federal decarbonization plan is necessarily going to help red states more. Why should it? If you asked the red states if they would like aid to decarbonize or to be taxed less what would be their answer? People cannot be helped if they don't want help. Money should be given back to the states equally to the money that is given from the states. I'm sure the red state voters would love that argument.
Because emissions hurt everyone on the Earth? Is this a real question?
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On July 01 2025 09:24 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2025 08:58 Sermokala wrote:On July 01 2025 08:42 LightSpectra wrote:
Blue states are spending their own money killing gas and coal, any federal decarbonization plan is necessarily going to help red states more. Why should it? If you asked the red states if they would like aid to decarbonize or to be taxed less what would be their answer? People cannot be helped if they don't want help. Money should be given back to the states equally to the money that is given from the states. I'm sure the red state voters would love that argument. Because emissions hurt everyone on the Earth? Is this a real question?
Again if people don't want help you can't help them. They don't think that it will hurt everyone on the earth, bobert doesn't think we landed on the moon. Much better progress can be made with the people who believe in science, and when they finally feel the effects and are ready to ask for help it will be much easier to help them.
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On July 01 2025 07:40 Acrofales wrote:
I will admit I find it hard to parse how GH thinks Trump's Big Beautiful Bill is not inevitable. I mean, I guess his point is that USAans cam en masse march on the capitol and use their first and second amendment rights to prevent it from being signed into law? But we all know that is only happening in his own fever dreams, so we're back to it being inevitable.
I don't wish suffering on anybody, but it's coming regardless. So I share the sentiment that I hope MAGA get a taste of their own medicine.
There are multiple layers, but Senators can introduce unlimited amendments, so they could just do that indefinitely (they're not really willing to miss their holiday vacations though) . The bill itself is extremely unpopular, so delaying it even just days could be enough to sway Murkowski and Collins (or others). Not to mention you can make the amendments pretty embarrassing/inexplicable to vote against and use those votes against them later.
As for the advocacy for accelerationism toward the suffering of Trump supporters, you guys already know they're not going to blame Trump for their suffering, and that they'll take it out on the most vulnerable people in society. They're already doing this and the more they're suffering the more heinous/unhinged they get.
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On July 01 2025 11:45 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2025 09:24 LightSpectra wrote:On July 01 2025 08:58 Sermokala wrote:On July 01 2025 08:42 LightSpectra wrote:
Blue states are spending their own money killing gas and coal, any federal decarbonization plan is necessarily going to help red states more. Why should it? If you asked the red states if they would like aid to decarbonize or to be taxed less what would be their answer? People cannot be helped if they don't want help. Money should be given back to the states equally to the money that is given from the states. I'm sure the red state voters would love that argument. Because emissions hurt everyone on the Earth? Is this a real question? Again if people don't want help you can't help them. They don't think that it will hurt everyone on the earth, bobert doesn't think we landed on the moon. Much better progress can be made with the people who believe in science, and when they finally feel the effects and are ready to ask for help it will be much easier to help them.
That is a very good approach for localized problems like pollution or whatever.
The problem with global warming is that it is a global problem. If blue states become carbon neutral and red states just drill baby drill, they still all suffer the results in the same way. Once they actually feel the effects and are willing to admit that those effects are really the effects of global warming, we are already in global catastrophe-land.
But we are headed there anyways, not enough people care for future problems when they can instead ignore them and fly their private jet to a private yacht party in venice.
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United States44361 Posts
It’s not accelerationism to say “I hope the next house the arsonist burns down is his own”. Accelerationism is when you’re the arsonist and you set fire to the school as part of your broader campaign to help the town see why it needs a fire brigade. They’re extremely different.
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Trump Threatens to Launch DOGE Investigation Into Elon Musk, Send Billionaire ‘Back Home to South Africa’via Mediaite.
President Donald Trump has threatened to launch a Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) investigation into its former chief Elon Musk after Musk tore into Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” and called for the creation of a third party.
“Elon Musk knew, long before he so strongly Endorsed me for President, that I was strongly against the EV Mandate,” Trump wrote Trump in the early hours of Tuesday morning. “It is ridiculous, and was always a major part of my campaign. Electric cars are fine, but not everyone should be forced to own one.”
He added: “Elon may get more subsidy than any human being in history, by far, and without subsidies, Elon would probably have to close up shop and head back home to South Africa. No more Rocket launches, Satellites, or Electric Car Production, and our Country would save a FORTUNE. Perhaps we should have DOGE take a good, hard, look at this? BIG MONEY TO BE SAVED!!!”
Trump made the post just hours after Musk attacked the Trump-backed “Big Beautiful Bill” and threw his support behind the creation of a third party to challenge the Republicans.
“It is obvious with the insane spending of this bill, which increases the debt ceiling by a record FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS that we live in a one-party country – the PORKY PIG PARTY!!” wrote Musk. “Time for a new political party that actually cares about the people.”
Musk also pledged to support Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) amid Trump’s massive effort to oust the congressman – a leading critic of the “Big Beautiful Bill” – from office.
In May, just days after leaving his position as head of DOGE in the Trump administration, Musk railed against Trump in a series of social media posts, accusing the president of being in the late child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein’s files.
Trump responded by threatening to terminate Musk’s government contracts and subsidies, writing, “The easiest way to save money in our Budget, Billions and Billions of Dollars, is to terminate Elon’s Governmental Subsidies and Contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn’t do it!”
I say let them filthy rich and morally bankrupt "piggies" fight! fight! fight! 
porky pig party bill, who would have thought Elon for once makes a good point after his Ketamine spree.
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On July 01 2025 20:21 Doublemint wrote:Trump Threatens to Launch DOGE Investigation Into Elon Musk, Send Billionaire ‘Back Home to South Africa’via Mediaite. Show nested quote +President Donald Trump has threatened to launch a Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) investigation into its former chief Elon Musk after Musk tore into Trump’s “Big Beautiful Bill” and called for the creation of a third party.
“Elon Musk knew, long before he so strongly Endorsed me for President, that I was strongly against the EV Mandate,” Trump wrote Trump in the early hours of Tuesday morning. “It is ridiculous, and was always a major part of my campaign. Electric cars are fine, but not everyone should be forced to own one.”
He added: “Elon may get more subsidy than any human being in history, by far, and without subsidies, Elon would probably have to close up shop and head back home to South Africa. No more Rocket launches, Satellites, or Electric Car Production, and our Country would save a FORTUNE. Perhaps we should have DOGE take a good, hard, look at this? BIG MONEY TO BE SAVED!!!”
Trump made the post just hours after Musk attacked the Trump-backed “Big Beautiful Bill” and threw his support behind the creation of a third party to challenge the Republicans.
“It is obvious with the insane spending of this bill, which increases the debt ceiling by a record FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS that we live in a one-party country – the PORKY PIG PARTY!!” wrote Musk. “Time for a new political party that actually cares about the people.”
Musk also pledged to support Rep. Thomas Massie (R-KY) amid Trump’s massive effort to oust the congressman – a leading critic of the “Big Beautiful Bill” – from office.
In May, just days after leaving his position as head of DOGE in the Trump administration, Musk railed against Trump in a series of social media posts, accusing the president of being in the late child sex offender Jeffrey Epstein’s files.
Trump responded by threatening to terminate Musk’s government contracts and subsidies, writing, “The easiest way to save money in our Budget, Billions and Billions of Dollars, is to terminate Elon’s Governmental Subsidies and Contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn’t do it!” I say let them filthy rich and morally bankrupt "piggies" fight! fight! fight! porky pig party bill, who would have thought Elon for once makes a good point after his Ketamine spree.
I don't generally drink tea. I'm making tea just for this occasion to have tea to sip on.
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temperatures would allow for some home made iced tea 
or plain tea to cure a minor cold due to AC overexposure...
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On July 01 2025 13:30 Simberto wrote:
But we are headed there anyways, not enough people care for future problems when they can instead ignore them and fly their private jet to a private yacht party in venice.
I go back and forth between dooming and mild hopium that scientific advancement plus the exponential growth of low-carbon energy might save us, but it's difficult at times.
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United States44361 Posts
It’s already too late. Pakistan and India are already preparing for the first big water war.
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That conflict is only tangentially related to climate change, so you must've gone about three dubious presumptions deep to get to that conclusion.
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So for me watching from outside. As a non-rich person caring about my follow man, is there anything good/worthwhile in the so called "One Big Beautiful Bill"?
I know about a lot of the negatives such as increasing administration for medical care and basic food support to move people out of them even if they qualify. Tax cuts for the rich and an increase in US debt.
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On July 02 2025 03:02 Yurie wrote:
So for me watching from outside. As a non-rich person caring about my follow man, is there anything good/worthwhile in the so called "One Big Beautiful Bill"?
I know about a lot of the negatives such as increasing administration for medical care and basic food support to move people out of them even if they qualify. Tax cuts for the rich and an increase in US debt.
Depends if you care about "border enforcement" and more money to military.
For a while there was a hilarious tax break for tanning beds, but some one convinced the off coloured president to remove that one.
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On July 02 2025 03:02 Yurie wrote:
So for me watching from outside. As a non-rich person caring about my follow man, is there anything good/worthwhile in the so called "One Big Beautiful Bill"?
I know about a lot of the negatives such as increasing administration for medical care and basic food support to move people out of them even if they qualify. Tax cuts for the rich and an increase in US debt.
"No tax on tips" will be something most people reference (pending final passage).
Sounds better than it is, but it's not nothing I guess.
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On July 02 2025 03:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2025 03:02 Yurie wrote:
So for me watching from outside. As a non-rich person caring about my follow man, is there anything good/worthwhile in the so called "One Big Beautiful Bill"?
I know about a lot of the negatives such as increasing administration for medical care and basic food support to move people out of them even if they qualify. Tax cuts for the rich and an increase in US debt. " No tax on tips" will be something most people reference (pending final passage). Sounds better than it is, but it's not nothing I guess.
Yeah, I really like it because it helps to frame the fact that the lower class should have an entirely different set of rules. No tax on tips is a great way to frame that and also do that. And I know its not as good as it sounds, but I think the cultural/messaging component is more important than the change itself.
IMO all families with AGI less than 100k should pay zero federal taxes. From my calculations, households with AGI of $5,000,000+ would need to have their effective federal tax rate increased from 33% to 44%.
If we assume a $5M AGI household also pays the average state tax of 11%...
$5M AGI household income after federal + state taxes = $2,820,000
$5M AGI household income covering $100K and below = $2,235,000
These poor bastards would be crawling through ditches trying to find a bite to eat with only $2.2M every year. And all for what? Just to eliminate federal income taxes from 130,000,000 households?
0.135% of American households forced to beg on the streets because they only took home $2,235,000 of income, just to benefit 79% of American households? You can see why most people don't find this to be a particularly appealing idea!
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United States44361 Posts
Tips should be taxed. It’s income for work done. It’s a bizarre carve out that will inevitably be exploited.
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On July 02 2025 05:02 KwarK wrote:
Tips should be taxed. It’s income for work done. It’s a bizarre carve out that will inevitably be exploited.
I know its not your intention, but this feels similar to arguments people make against other entitlements, pointing to theoretical exploitation or abuse.
I'm cool with it, even if it ends up exploited by some whatever % of people because it would absolutely help a ton of super poor people.
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United States44361 Posts
On July 02 2025 05:06 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2025 05:02 KwarK wrote:
Tips should be taxed. It’s income for work done. It’s a bizarre carve out that will inevitably be exploited. I know its not your intention, but this feels similar to arguments people make against other entitlements, pointing to theoretical exploitation or abuse. I'm cool with it, even if it ends up exploited by some whatever % of people because it would absolutely help a ton of super poor people.
How so? If you want to pass a tax cut helping poor people then give McDonald’s employees a carve out. This is just “I’m gonna pay you 20% less now but you can call it a tip so we’re good” except they don’t get any social security when they’re 67 now.
This is codifying paying people under the table into tax law. Framing this as an attempt to help people save on their taxes is simply wrong.
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EPT
