EPTTruly wild times.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5059
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
Truly wild times. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
Maybe I am missing something, but I feel like Israel vs Iran is purely a result of momentum. If both Israel and Iran completely stopped all military stuff against each other, there would be no problem. Like Kwark described before, they have no physical reason to be at war. They don't compete against each other for anything. They could ignore each other and nothing would go wrong for either of them. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3289 Posts
So long as polls go up when there's war, there will always be war. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1768 Posts
Really curious what happens in Gaza next, Nethyanahu's running out of enemies to attack and the wagons are circling. | ||
KwarK
United States44367 Posts
Rivalry with the US is the problem because they didn’t especially choose that one and the US doesn’t need a land border to have a proper war with someone. To deter the US they really need a nuke but they can’t have a nuke and lock it in a way that makes Israel feel comfortable. A defensive weapon vs the US is an unacceptable offensive weapon vs Israel and so they’re basically stuck in a bind. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On June 25 2025 06:54 KwarK wrote: War with Israel is a critical pillar of Iran’s candidate platform for leadership of the Muslim world. And they have the unique advantage of not having a border with Israel which makes war much safer for them than their rivals. It’s not going anywhere, they’re choosing that one. I honestly hoped losing their airspace for a week and all the various chaos would be enough for Iran to just kinda give up on that. Who knows, maybe they are slowly giving up on it in a face-saving way. It is frustrating to me that they truly have no path to being the empire they see themselves as, yet they continue on like its their god-granted title. | ||
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micronesia
United States24803 Posts
I'll wait while you think of what it is. Okay I'm done waiting. Will you suddenly pull a 180 on it because I seized your airspace for a week? | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On June 25 2025 07:15 micronesia wrote: Mohdoo, try thinking of a belief you have... one of the core tenets of your existence. More than just about anything else, this belief is what's important to you, and nobody can talk you out of it. I'll wait while you think of what it is. Okay I'm done waiting. Will you suddenly pull a 180 on it because I seized your airspace for a week? I'm probably not the best person to use this thought experiment on since I generally don't have any principles I would risk anything for other than "I want my family to continue to be alive and be happy". But your point makes sense. It is a sad and dumb situation. Bah humbug. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3289 Posts
On June 25 2025 07:11 Mohdoo wrote: I honestly hoped losing their airspace for a week and all the various chaos would be enough for Iran to just kinda give up on that. Who knows, maybe they are slowly giving up on it in a face-saving way. It is frustrating to me that they truly have no path to being the empire they see themselves as, yet they continue on like its their god-granted title. By "God-granted" you mean "they saw how the U.S. fucks with countries without nukes like they're entitled to and they don't want that to happen to them", surely. Obama gave them a way out of that conundrum, but he unfortunately had the audacity to be president while black, so Trump tore up that deal. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On June 25 2025 02:33 Mohdoo wrote: England and France had plenty of disagreements between the beginning of time and modern day. They are ok now. There isn't any real reason for England and France to have closer diplomatic ties than Israel and Iran. Maybe Trump is just having one of his usual cognitive episodes. But either way its still true. Iran and Israel continuing to have military conflict is extremely distasteful and unbecoming. They are 2 drunk frat girls screaming and pulling each other's hair in a bathroom while people in the next room are trying to have a conversation. Much of England and Frances issues with each other over the history could very charitably be described as two drunk frat girls screaming and pulling on each others hair. The bigger difference is that they both chopped the heads off the people who followed in the line of those people. Both nations are in a very messy state that neither chose to be in without massive influence by the west. Much like why lincoln was a shitty president the only thing worse than being a tyrant is being a half measure tyrant. Failing to destroy Irans nuclear program is simply another half measure to solve the problem. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3289 Posts
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Billyboy
2487 Posts
On June 25 2025 04:32 LightSpectra wrote: CNN: Early US intel assessment suggests strikes on Iran did not destroy nuclear sites, sources say Times of Israel: Israeli intel assesses that Iran’s nuclear program set back ‘several years,’ but not destroyed — official and Tehran will restore its nuclear program, Iranian atomic chief vows Newsweek: Lindsey Graham says "I'm looking at regime change" in Iran Anyone here still wanna defend war with Iran? The intel we here is whatever they want us to here. That is why you can have Hegsmeth say obliterated a whole bunch and then some other source say not destroyed. It probably makes sense to keep somethings top secret not that I these are the people I would trust. And then the intel can be spun whatever way anyone wants. If Israel goes back, they can say point to this and say not destroyed, and people who disagree can say it was and quote the other. This one, as far as wars go because they are all full of negatives, has been a good one. Mostly military hit, no chaos of regime change, lots of decision makers offed all who are almost certainly terrible humans, non military infrastructure mostly un harmed, Russia losing a lot of reputation both as a military contractor and ally, Iran much less able to spread instability and violence outside of there boarders. Time will tell but this is no Gaza. On June 25 2025 05:11 Gorsameth wrote: The problem is that Iran has been shown that the only option they have is a nuke. They are going to keep trying because nothing else will safeguard them from the next time an Israeli PM with falling ratings needs a war to divert attention. There is a clear and way better option for all the Iranian people and even their leadership. Stay within the boarder and chill on the genocidal rhetoric, don't try to build a nuke. Basically just stop trying to be a super villain and just be a regular villain and they will be fine . They could be like SA, UAE, Qatar and so on, none of them are scared of being invaded and none have a nuke. On June 25 2025 06:16 LightSpectra wrote: They need each other to be threats to support their authoritarian domestic policies. So long as polls go up when there's war, there will always be war. I do not think Iran gives two shits about polls. On June 25 2025 06:20 Jankisa wrote: Well, blessed be the peacemaker, this episode seems to be winding down, I for one am happy to be wrong in thinking it's going to be much, much worse, it still could, but so far it's looking to be calming down. Really curious what happens in Gaza next, Nethyanahu's running out of enemies to attack and the wagons are circling. With Hamas likely being cut off from Iran's support it should take away the excuse/justification for the attacks. But long term I have no idea what happens, they have way to many people, no industry and no natural resources. They are going to need so much money to rebuild, and if they had infrastructure I still do not think they could support it internally given their location and demographics. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3289 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States3289 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
On June 25 2025 08:43 LightSpectra wrote: Lincoln was such a tyrant, people were practically enslaved under him. Yeah, Lincoln was the least tyrannical president of the first 16 presidents by an absurdly wide margin. He was the first one to free the slaves! | ||
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ZerOCoolSC2
9069 Posts
On June 25 2025 09:35 Severedevil wrote: Yeah, Lincoln was the least tyrannical president of the first 16 presidents by an absurdly wide margin. He was the first one to free the slaves! Who was the second? :p | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
The amendment never outlawed slavery it just solidified the institution in the state instead of in private hands. He never gave a shit about what would happen to the slaves after they were freed and never gave truth to the order of 40 acres and a mule. The way to break the south forever would be to create a class of people who were militantly against what the confederacy was about. Black militias In the south armed with the castoffs from demonilized units after the war would have solved the nation's ills. | ||
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Billyboy
2487 Posts
On June 25 2025 09:08 LightSpectra wrote: Not literally polls in Iran, but their regime hangs on a lot longer if they make enough people more afraid of Israel and the U.S. than they hate the theocracy. The other dictorship's seem to be holding onto to power, getting richer, not under threat of attack or sanctions all without that. To me it looks a blunder not a wise strategy. | ||
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KwarK
United States44367 Posts
On June 25 2025 09:52 Sermokala wrote: Lincoln never freed the slaves and waited to make a toothless proclamation about it until after another bloody draw in order to secure his relection. He could have called up slaves to revolt against their masters and reward them with the land they work, he could have started military units staffed with former or current slaves promising land and citizenship in exchange for service to manage his manpower issues instead of drafting from new York. The amendment never outlawed slavery it just solidified the institution in the state instead of in private hands. He never gave a shit about what would happen to the slaves after they were freed and never gave truth to the order of 40 acres and a mule. The way to break the south forever would be to create a class of people who were militantly against what the confederacy was about. Black militias In the south armed with the castoffs from demonilized units after the war would have solved the nation's ills. Eh, obviously the south wasn’t fixed under Lincoln and obviously arming the oppressed would have given them more options for self defence but I feel like it wouldn’t have all just somehow worked out. You’ve got two groups of people who hate and fear each other and it’s immediately obvious which group a given person falls into. The problem is that one group is heavily armed and is abusing the other. Your proposal is to make both heavily armed so that neither would risk mistreating the other. It’s a very American solution but I can’t think of a single historical example of that actually working as intended. Wouldn’t it just escalate to a full intergenerational race war? | ||
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