|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
United States24803 Posts
On June 24 2025 08:22 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 07:45 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2025 06:24 Mohdoo wrote:On June 24 2025 06:14 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2025 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:Trump seems to be signaling he's cool walking away at this point. If this is the end of our involvement, I'm extremely pleased with how Trump handled it. Stepping in for a moment to entirely remove any hope Iran ever develops a nuclear weapon, then leaving right after, is ideal. Since optimism is generally proven wrong, I remain concerned something breaks. But hopefully not.
Iran has officially responded to our Obliteration of their Nuclear Facilities with a very weak response, which we expected, and have very effectively countered. There have been 14 missiles fired — 13 were knocked down, and 1 was “set free,” because it was headed in a nonthreatening direction. I am pleased to report that NO Americans were harmed, and hardly any damage was done. Most importantly, they’ve gotten it all out of their “system,” and there will, hopefully, be no further HATE. I want to thank Iran for giving us early notice, which made it possible for no lives to be lost, and nobody to be injured. Perhaps Iran can now proceed to Peace and Harmony in the Region, and I will enthusiastically encourage Israel to do the same. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
How does this prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon or other kind of WMD such as a dirty bomb? Some bombs were dropped in the vicinity of extremely hardened sites and victory was declared but how do you know that victory was achieved? I will let Micronesia correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is the 60% uranium they have is insufficient for making a weapon. And that's assuming Israel didn't take it themselves. And I am also under the impression it is impossible to access Fordow without a great deal of time and effort. So even in a scenario where Fordow remains operational, there is no feasible way to access it. And Israel would of course bomb any small attempt immediately. Mossad has also likely benefited enormously from over a week of controlling Tehran's airspace. I can't imagine Iran would ever manage to get uranium enrichment back online without Mossad knowing about it. But again, this is just my understanding, so of course feel free to correct anything I am wrong about. A fission weapon or any weapon? Because I suspect for the purpose of raining uranium on Tel Aviv some pulverized 60% uranium loaded onto a missile will probably work fine. Sorry for my ignorance, but is that what a dirty bomb is? The thing I think was important was preventing Iran from having a nuclear weapon. I don't know if 60% uranium can be used for a dirty bomb or something, but if so, I agree that would mean the uranium being unaccounted for would mean the whole thing was a failure. But I have no idea, so I will just defer to micronesia like I normally do. My impression is enrichment is totally impossible for Iran at this point though. Does that match your understanding? They can try, but the time necessary to get up and running appears to prevent anything from ever actually succeeding. Iran will likely never be able to defend their air space from Israel.
If you launch a missile at a city carrying a dirty bomb, typically what matters is that a bomb-carrying missile (i.e., conventional explosion) is going to damage a city and kill people. The after-effects of the radioactivity are barely more than a footnote by comparison.
Dirty bombs would logically be loaded with fission products (i.e., not uranium) or maybe transuranics (i.e., not uranium, as stated directly in the name). Dirty bombs with enriched uranium wouldn't be that different than dirty bombs with natural uranium, which can be freely mined without enrichment.
|
On June 24 2025 06:36 LightSpectra wrote:
Israel will be done when Likud is polling better, so it might take awhile, but it has no bearing whatsoever to the state of Iran's nuclear enrichment program.
I guess they must be polling better, or its fake news, who knows with Trump.
|
On June 24 2025 08:46 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 08:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 24 2025 07:45 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2025 06:24 Mohdoo wrote:On June 24 2025 06:14 KwarK wrote:On June 24 2025 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:Trump seems to be signaling he's cool walking away at this point. If this is the end of our involvement, I'm extremely pleased with how Trump handled it. Stepping in for a moment to entirely remove any hope Iran ever develops a nuclear weapon, then leaving right after, is ideal. Since optimism is generally proven wrong, I remain concerned something breaks. But hopefully not.
Iran has officially responded to our Obliteration of their Nuclear Facilities with a very weak response, which we expected, and have very effectively countered. There have been 14 missiles fired — 13 were knocked down, and 1 was “set free,” because it was headed in a nonthreatening direction. I am pleased to report that NO Americans were harmed, and hardly any damage was done. Most importantly, they’ve gotten it all out of their “system,” and there will, hopefully, be no further HATE. I want to thank Iran for giving us early notice, which made it possible for no lives to be lost, and nobody to be injured. Perhaps Iran can now proceed to Peace and Harmony in the Region, and I will enthusiastically encourage Israel to do the same. Thank you for your attention to this matter!
DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
How does this prevent Iran from getting a nuclear weapon or other kind of WMD such as a dirty bomb? Some bombs were dropped in the vicinity of extremely hardened sites and victory was declared but how do you know that victory was achieved? I will let Micronesia correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is the 60% uranium they have is insufficient for making a weapon. And that's assuming Israel didn't take it themselves. And I am also under the impression it is impossible to access Fordow without a great deal of time and effort. So even in a scenario where Fordow remains operational, there is no feasible way to access it. And Israel would of course bomb any small attempt immediately. Mossad has also likely benefited enormously from over a week of controlling Tehran's airspace. I can't imagine Iran would ever manage to get uranium enrichment back online without Mossad knowing about it. But again, this is just my understanding, so of course feel free to correct anything I am wrong about. A fission weapon or any weapon? Because I suspect for the purpose of raining uranium on Tel Aviv some pulverized 60% uranium loaded onto a missile will probably work fine. Sorry for my ignorance, but is that what a dirty bomb is? The thing I think was important was preventing Iran from having a nuclear weapon. I don't know if 60% uranium can be used for a dirty bomb or something, but if so, I agree that would mean the uranium being unaccounted for would mean the whole thing was a failure. But I have no idea, so I will just defer to micronesia like I normally do. My impression is enrichment is totally impossible for Iran at this point though. Does that match your understanding? They can try, but the time necessary to get up and running appears to prevent anything from ever actually succeeding. Iran will likely never be able to defend their air space from Israel. If you launch a missile at a city carrying a dirty bomb, typically what matters is that a bomb-carrying missile (i.e., conventional explosion) is going to damage a city and kill people. The after-effects of the radioactivity are barely more than a footnote by comparison. Dirty bombs would logically be loaded with fission products (i.e., not uranium) or maybe transuranics (i.e., not uranium, as stated directly in the name). Dirty bombs with enriched uranium wouldn't be that different than dirty bombs with natural uranium, which can be freely mined without enrichment.
Thank you, that's helpful.
If you don't mind me asking a couple follow up questions, I'd appreciate it. As you can imagine, the politics of this situation make it wildly difficult to find good information about all this.
1: Ignoring enrichment and whatnot, in a vacuum, is 60% uranium something Iran could weaponize?
2: If we assume all the enrichment in Iran other than Fordow was destroyed, and we assume Fordow's...elevator? entrance? or whatever is totally destroyed, though perhaps the facility itself is intact, does that mean Iran's ability to enrich uranium is totally gone? Meaning even if they have 60% uranium, not really much they could ever hope to do with it because the enrichment process being constructed or pursued would itself be noticed by Israel?
My understanding of everything is that even if Fordow is somehow functional all the way down there, the excavation necessary to reach it would be so involved Israel or the US would have an enormous window of time to intervene such that Fordow is functionally destroyed. And it sounds like the other facilities are much more conclusively destroyed. And so they would need to just build a new enrichment facility, but Israel or the US would of course be able to tell they are working on it months before it is ever completed?
|
United States24803 Posts
I don't actually know much about how to make nuclear weapons, and I don't know what nuclear work would or would not be detectable by other countries.
Also, while I can say 60% enrichment is high enough to support a potential bomb, it would require differences in design than the well-known models so I don't know what the feasibility or tradeoffs are.
|
Does 400kg of 60% enriched uranium have any foreseeable purpose other than nuclear weapons?
They're making specific unique components only of warhead cores, saying we don't have proof on tape of someone ordering them to actually assemble a nuke and test it yet is missing a point somewhere. If someone asks you for a bottle, a rag, some matches, and gasoline, you can deduce the goal of these materials is the ability to make a molotov cocktail.
|
v.redd.it
Seems like Bibi finally pissed Trump off enough that he might do something to reign him in.
It's interesting how all the reporting is how Iran violated the agreement (which they did) but none of it really goes over that Israel did a lot of strikes after it was announced (so I guess Trump had to give them more time in his Truth social post).
In any case, thank you Americans for making this fucking moron the most powerful person in the world, I might agree with him here but this is so unnerving to see, an angry narcissist deciding the fate of the world based on who pissed him off the most...
|
On June 24 2025 22:11 Jankisa wrote:v.redd.itSeems like Bibi finally pissed Trump off enough that he might do something to reign him in. It's interesting how all the reporting is how Iran violated the agreement (which they did) but none of it really goes over that Israel did a lot of strikes after it was announced (so I guess Trump had to give them more time in his Truth social post). In any case, thank you Americans for making this fucking moron the most powerful person in the world, I might agree with him here but this is so unnerving to see, an angry narcissist deciding the fate of the world based on who pissed him off the most... Its weird, that might be the most coherent and focused Trump I have seen in a very long time. And he actually makes good and sensible points.
Did I wake up in an alternate dimension? wtf is happening.
wont bet on Trump actually doing anything about Israel tho.
|
Its a huge breath of fresh air seeing this kinda actually candid answer. Not the "he says it like it is, because he said racist things and I like that". But actually saying it like it is. Iran and Israel are a couple of degenerate idiots and they are so lost in this conflict they have lost themselves entirely.
|
On June 24 2025 09:01 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 06:36 LightSpectra wrote:
Israel will be done when Likud is polling better, so it might take awhile, but it has no bearing whatsoever to the state of Iran's nuclear enrichment program. I guess they must be polling better, or its fake news, who knows with Trump.
They'll keep violating the ceasefire until the polls increase.
On June 24 2025 22:49 Mohdoo wrote:
Its a huge breath of fresh air seeing this kinda actually candid answer. Not the "he says it like it is, because he said racist things and I like that". But actually saying it like it is. Iran and Israel are a couple of degenerate idiots and they are so lost in this conflict they have lost themselves entirely.
That's funny, I interpreted this the same way Trump said "Nobody knew healthcare could be this complicated," i.e. he's in way over his head and has no idea why Netanyahu or Khamenei do the things they do. Natural consequence of Dunning-Krugering away all the actual experts in diplomacy and espionage and making decisions based off of who gave the best flattery in the past six hours.
Related, go take a peak at what MAGA is saying on Twitter right now. They are literally rejoicing that the U.S. completed a whole military operation without Hegseth drunkenly leaking any classified info. If the bar was any lower the Devil would limbo under it.
In better news, another poll is showing Mamdani beating Cuomo.
|
On June 24 2025 23:01 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 09:01 Billyboy wrote:On June 24 2025 06:36 LightSpectra wrote:
Israel will be done when Likud is polling better, so it might take awhile, but it has no bearing whatsoever to the state of Iran's nuclear enrichment program. I guess they must be polling better, or its fake news, who knows with Trump. They'll keep violating the ceasefire until the polls increase. Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 22:49 Mohdoo wrote:
Its a huge breath of fresh air seeing this kinda actually candid answer. Not the "he says it like it is, because he said racist things and I like that". But actually saying it like it is. Iran and Israel are a couple of degenerate idiots and they are so lost in this conflict they have lost themselves entirely. That's funny, I interpreted this the same way Trump said "Nobody knew healthcare could be this complicated," i.e. he's in way over his head and has no idea why Netanyahu or Khamenei do the things they do. Natural consequence of Dunning-Krugering away all the actual experts in diplomacy and espionage and making decisions based off of who gave the best flattery in the past six hours.
Yeah, agreed. He is a dumbass and wrong and he is being stupid. But I am actually seeing him in this video. This is who Trump is, and I like having that opportunity. I don't like what I see, and I view him as ineffective. But I am fascinated by all the dynamics of how politicians manage their image and this was a rare sight.
|
On June 24 2025 22:41 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 22:11 Jankisa wrote:v.redd.itSeems like Bibi finally pissed Trump off enough that he might do something to reign him in. It's interesting how all the reporting is how Iran violated the agreement (which they did) but none of it really goes over that Israel did a lot of strikes after it was announced (so I guess Trump had to give them more time in his Truth social post). In any case, thank you Americans for making this fucking moron the most powerful person in the world, I might agree with him here but this is so unnerving to see, an angry narcissist deciding the fate of the world based on who pissed him off the most... Its weird, that might be the most coherent and focused Trump I have seen in a very long time. And he actually makes good and sensible points. Did I wake up in an alternate dimension? wtf is happening. wont bet on Trump actually doing anything about Israel tho.
If he did, and managed to do enough to prevent Ukraine from falling to Russia, I think Democrats might actually struggle to beat him running for a third term.
|
On June 24 2025 23:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 22:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 24 2025 22:11 Jankisa wrote:v.redd.itSeems like Bibi finally pissed Trump off enough that he might do something to reign him in. It's interesting how all the reporting is how Iran violated the agreement (which they did) but none of it really goes over that Israel did a lot of strikes after it was announced (so I guess Trump had to give them more time in his Truth social post). In any case, thank you Americans for making this fucking moron the most powerful person in the world, I might agree with him here but this is so unnerving to see, an angry narcissist deciding the fate of the world based on who pissed him off the most... Its weird, that might be the most coherent and focused Trump I have seen in a very long time. And he actually makes good and sensible points. Did I wake up in an alternate dimension? wtf is happening. wont bet on Trump actually doing anything about Israel tho. If he did, and managed to do enough to prevent Ukraine from falling to Russia, I think Democrats might actually struggle to beat him running for a third term. no, because the voters dont care about foreign policy. The election is decided by grocery and gas prices.
|
When Trump says they don't know what they're doing, he's projecting. HE doesn't know what they're doing. THEY know very well what it is that they're doing. Trump doesn't like it because it reflects poorly back on him and because it confuses him.
|
On June 24 2025 23:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2025 23:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 24 2025 22:41 Gorsameth wrote:On June 24 2025 22:11 Jankisa wrote:v.redd.itSeems like Bibi finally pissed Trump off enough that he might do something to reign him in. It's interesting how all the reporting is how Iran violated the agreement (which they did) but none of it really goes over that Israel did a lot of strikes after it was announced (so I guess Trump had to give them more time in his Truth social post). In any case, thank you Americans for making this fucking moron the most powerful person in the world, I might agree with him here but this is so unnerving to see, an angry narcissist deciding the fate of the world based on who pissed him off the most... Its weird, that might be the most coherent and focused Trump I have seen in a very long time. And he actually makes good and sensible points. Did I wake up in an alternate dimension? wtf is happening. wont bet on Trump actually doing anything about Israel tho. If he did, and managed to do enough to prevent Ukraine from falling to Russia, I think Democrats might actually struggle to beat him running for a third term. no, because the voters dont care about foreign policy. The election is decided by grocery and gas prices.
To be fair, most voters didn't really care about anything but the letter next to the candidates name. Biden supporters were constantly talking about how they'd vote for inanimate objects and the like.
|
I think saying they don’t know what they are doing is accurate. Both Iran and Israel are only viewed as rational actors because we view them as children. They have somehow normalized their own deficiencies. We expect less from them because we label them as religious nutjobs. But they are still totally shitting the bed. If I told you I was owed land for the reasons Israel tells you, you’d think I was having a schizophrenic hallucination. Same with Iran’s horseshit about their lame ass religious laws. It’s all bullshit and they are failing to meet the minimum standard of reasonable thinking. It’s not acceptable for either of them to think the things they do. It’s a huge mistake for us to pat them on the head and say “you poor thing, let me help”.
|
Neither Netanyahu nor Khamenei are religious nutjobs. They're the Trumps of their own countries, superficially religious to capture the support of the demographics that care about that and to justify authoritarianism.
|
On June 24 2025 23:31 LightSpectra wrote:
Neither Netanyahu nor Khamenei are religious nutjobs. They're the Trumps of their own countries, superficially religious to capture the support of the demographics that care about that and to justify authoritarianism.
There is plenty of information out there about each of them. The world isn’t as simple or uniform consistent as you are describing. There’s no reason to dive towards the easy cynical answer. Both Khameini and Netanyahu have lived long, storied lives, with plenty of verifiable information to inform us of who they are deep down. Netanyahu is much more of a rat than Khameini, but even Netanyahu is compelled by his religious BS. Khameini is still a rat too, but he is genuinely compelled by his faith, even if he tempers it at times when he feels like he must.
Letting yourself engage with the world as it really is, with all the information available to you, is overwhelming, confusing, and saddening. But it’s the only worthwhile option you have. You should try to resist the reflex to give things such easy labels. Force yourself to examine details of people you hate. It’s more fun and interesting than you realize
|
I've read biographies on both of them. They're not religious nutjobs. That's not to say they're complete atheists, which is a different claim, but they're certainly not prioritizing spiritual morality when making stately decisions.
The previous Supreme Leader of Iran, Ruhollah Khomeini, could potentially be described as a nutjob, but even he did a lot of things that other Shi'ites would consider disqualifying.
|
So then we both know who they are and we use the term nutjob differently. I label both of them critically compromised by superstition, however you want to define that.
That being said, I think good ole fashioned tribalism and hatred plays a big role too. It’s a big shit ass mess for many different reasons. But my point is they are not rational actors, this isn’t 5d chess. They are poor decision makers and they have deeply clouded and ineffective judgment. It’s not an act, they really do suck ass. But of course some of it is an act, since they are leaders.
|
But my point is they are not rational actors, this isn’t 5d chess. They are poor decision makers and they have deeply clouded and ineffective judgment.
Are they? They're both still in power, they must be doing something right. Maybe Iran could be in a better position if Khameini made some different decisions, but Netanyahu's one of the all time greats in terms of self-serving corruption.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
