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On March 01 2025 08:36 Simberto wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I guess that is a problem for that theory, but maybe the US military really doesn't like murdering presidential candidates, and Biden also isn't into that. I can view principled people simply not being capable of making that decision, no matter the cost. There are probably people available for that kind of move, but it might simply be the case that Biden said "no".
In the end, it doesn't matter that much. If Trump is being a traitor because he is in the Russian pocket, or because he is a moron who gets played by Putin like a fiddle doesn't change the real outcome. Because this cannot go on for 3 years and 10 months. See the damage these people did in 2 months. They don't seem to slow down, either. And it is not like this would end after 4 years. Trump will make sure he doesn't lose another election. He can probably ask Putin for help with that, the guy has experience in that regard after all. LibHorizons: I'm trying. Basically everyone else here is steadfastly refusing to even try. Luckily, I find the people in my local Democrat group (to be fair many were Bernie supporters) are far more receptive than the Americans and otherwise here. Statewide is more like here, but a lot of those people's career is literally dependent on not pursuing the kind of strategy I'm advocating.
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United States44286 Posts
One of the complications is that you kinda need to get Vance at the same time.
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Canada11607 Posts
What a nightmare of an administration.
Be grateful that we're trying to extort you and sell you down the river to Putin. Incompetent morons.
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United States44286 Posts
It was theatre. The decision to ally with Russia was already made. They invited Zelenskyy as part of an ambush to try to create a justification for the realignment.
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On March 01 2025 05:48 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 05:41 Hat Trick of Today wrote:On March 01 2025 05:33 Simberto wrote:On March 01 2025 05:11 Uldridge wrote:
Zelensky's blood must be boiling there holy shit. His facial expressions said it all when Trump & Vance were talking. Who can look at this shit and think "Yeah, this is what i want out of a leader for my country". Zelensky is 50 times the president that Trump could ever hope to be. Because they’re not actually looking for actual leadership. Look at Asmongold, who is currently the biggest political influencer on social media. He approaches politics like it’s Keeping Up With The Kardashians. It’s solely about the drama and nothing else. Look at the type of people who would reference Asmongold in a forum debate and read how they casually and jovially they talk about Trump’s desire to annex Canada. None of this is serious to them because it isn’t. I know he’s got a big audience but please tell me he isn’t actually the biggest political influencer on social media…
Yeah, Dead Rat Alarm Clock Wall Of Gum Blood Literally Crawling with Roaches Man is, I think, the top political commentator type at the moment. Honestly, it couldn't be more fitting given hes a comically over the top degenerate moron, he very much matches the times.
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On March 01 2025 08:36 Simberto wrote:
I guess that is a problem for that theory, but maybe the US military really doesn't like murdering presidential candidates, and Biden also isn't into that. I can view principled people simply not being capable of making that decision, no matter the cost. There are probably people available for that kind of move, but it might simply be the case that Biden said "no".
In the end, it doesn't matter that much. If Trump is being a traitor because he is in the Russian pocket, or because he is a moron who gets played by Putin like a fiddle doesn't change the real outcome.
You guys in the US need to figure out how to do something about this. Because this cannot go on for 3 years and 10 months. See the damage these people did in 2 months. They don't seem to slow down, either. And it is not like this would end after 4 years. Trump will make sure he doesn't lose another election. He can probably ask Putin for help with that, the guy has experience in that regard after all.
This is only further making your case, but: It's only been 5 weeks x.x
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Canada11607 Posts
On March 01 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:
It was theatre. The decision to ally with Russia was already made. They invited Zelenskyy as part of an ambush to try to create a justification for the realignment.
Maybe you're right.
AP is out and TASS is in.
So then it's moronic on the strategic level rather than the tactical.
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Kicking the AP out of the whitehouse and inviting russian state media in is an action that says a lot more than any words could.
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On March 01 2025 10:28 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 09:48 KwarK wrote:
It was theatre. The decision to ally with Russia was already made. They invited Zelenskyy as part of an ambush to try to create a justification for the realignment. Maybe you're right. AP is out and TASS is in. So then it's moronic on the strategic level rather than the tactical.
Why not call it a knee fall
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Canada11607 Posts
Because I don't know what that means?
I looked it up and all I see is physio exercises.
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On March 01 2025 11:28 Falling wrote:
Because I don't know what that means?
I looked it up and all I see is physio exercises.
We had our foreign minister once kneel before Putin so it locally was a bit of a big deal.
It does come across as capitulation so maybe she was ahead of her time.
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On March 01 2025 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 07:19 Husyelt wrote:therecord.mediaDefense Secretary Pete Hegseth last week ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Hegseth gave the instruction to Cyber Command chief Gen. Timothy Haugh, who then informed the organization's outgoing director of operations, Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Ryan Heritage, of the new guidance, according to these people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
The order does not apply to the National Security Agency, which Haugh also leads, or its signals intelligence work targeting Russia, the sources said. Actively aligning with Russia. Europe is now our enemy full stop. We need to bring this countries economy to a f****** halt LibHorizons: Have you considered venting about how stupid/bad Trump and his ilk are instead? It doesn't help, but I hear it's quite cathartic for the person doing it. I jest, but seriously, that's basically all anyone here really wants to do. Fwiw I think Europeans are going to have to do something similar to what you suggest combined with a BDS movement in opposition to the US else you'll see them slithering to not be on Trump's/the US's shitlist. This will manifest in the discussion among Europeans between those that want something like a BDS movement and those that want to be servile and remain in the good graces of/appease Trump/the US.
weve disagreed in the past but im with you here and on gaza/Harris. americans need to feel and see just how bad Trump and the GOP are and one of the ways is becoming a pariah with the rest of the free world moving on without us. i used to be against blocking streets with protesters, but im all open now to *getting creative*
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On March 01 2025 11:48 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2025 07:19 Husyelt wrote:therecord.mediaDefense Secretary Pete Hegseth last week ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Hegseth gave the instruction to Cyber Command chief Gen. Timothy Haugh, who then informed the organization's outgoing director of operations, Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Ryan Heritage, of the new guidance, according to these people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
The order does not apply to the National Security Agency, which Haugh also leads, or its signals intelligence work targeting Russia, the sources said. Actively aligning with Russia. Europe is now our enemy full stop. We need to bring this countries economy to a f****** halt LibHorizons: Have you considered venting about how stupid/bad Trump and his ilk are instead? It doesn't help, but I hear it's quite cathartic for the person doing it. I jest, but seriously, that's basically all anyone here really wants to do. Fwiw I think Europeans are going to have to do something similar to what you suggest combined with a BDS movement in opposition to the US else you'll see them slithering to not be on Trump's/the US's shitlist. This will manifest in the discussion among Europeans between those that want something like a BDS movement and those that want to be servile and remain in the good graces of/appease Trump/the US. weve disagreed in the past but im with you here and on gaza/Harris. americans need to feel and see just how bad Trump and the GOP are and one of the ways is becoming a pariah with the rest of the free world moving on without us. i used to be against blocking streets with protesters, but im all open now to *getting creative*
The problem is that they never learn. We already had Trump. We already became a pariah and laughingstock during that period. No lessons were learned by the voters, and he was reelected.
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On March 01 2025 11:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 11:48 Husyelt wrote:On March 01 2025 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2025 07:19 Husyelt wrote:therecord.mediaDefense Secretary Pete Hegseth last week ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Hegseth gave the instruction to Cyber Command chief Gen. Timothy Haugh, who then informed the organization's outgoing director of operations, Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Ryan Heritage, of the new guidance, according to these people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
The order does not apply to the National Security Agency, which Haugh also leads, or its signals intelligence work targeting Russia, the sources said. Actively aligning with Russia. Europe is now our enemy full stop. We need to bring this countries economy to a f****** halt LibHorizons: Have you considered venting about how stupid/bad Trump and his ilk are instead? It doesn't help, but I hear it's quite cathartic for the person doing it. I jest, but seriously, that's basically all anyone here really wants to do. Fwiw I think Europeans are going to have to do something similar to what you suggest combined with a BDS movement in opposition to the US else you'll see them slithering to not be on Trump's/the US's shitlist. This will manifest in the discussion among Europeans between those that want something like a BDS movement and those that want to be servile and remain in the good graces of/appease Trump/the US. weve disagreed in the past but im with you here and on gaza/Harris. americans need to feel and see just how bad Trump and the GOP are and one of the ways is becoming a pariah with the rest of the free world moving on without us. i used to be against blocking streets with protesters, but im all open now to *getting creative* The problem is that they never learn. We already had Trump. We already became a pariah and laughingstock during that period. No lessons were learned by the voters, and he was reelected.
What I remember of Trumps first term is:
1. Epsteins suiciding
2. Stock market bubble and crypto boom
3. Loads of horseshite on twitter, at least some things never change
4. Trade deal with China followed by worldwide pandemic
5. Assassination of an Iranian general that somehow didn‘t become that important as it seemed
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On March 01 2025 11:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 11:48 Husyelt wrote:On March 01 2025 07:39 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 01 2025 07:19 Husyelt wrote:therecord.mediaDefense Secretary Pete Hegseth last week ordered U.S. Cyber Command to stand down from all planning against Russia, including offensive digital actions, according to three people familiar with the matter.
Hegseth gave the instruction to Cyber Command chief Gen. Timothy Haugh, who then informed the organization's outgoing director of operations, Marine Corps Maj. Gen. Ryan Heritage, of the new guidance, according to these people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the matter’s sensitivity.
The order does not apply to the National Security Agency, which Haugh also leads, or its signals intelligence work targeting Russia, the sources said. Actively aligning with Russia. Europe is now our enemy full stop. We need to bring this countries economy to a f****** halt LibHorizons: Have you considered venting about how stupid/bad Trump and his ilk are instead? It doesn't help, but I hear it's quite cathartic for the person doing it. I jest, but seriously, that's basically all anyone here really wants to do. Fwiw I think Europeans are going to have to do something similar to what you suggest combined with a BDS movement in opposition to the US else you'll see them slithering to not be on Trump's/the US's shitlist. This will manifest in the discussion among Europeans between those that want something like a BDS movement and those that want to be servile and remain in the good graces of/appease Trump/the US. weve disagreed in the past but im with you here and on gaza/Harris. americans need to feel and see just how bad Trump and the GOP are and one of the ways is becoming a pariah with the rest of the free world moving on without us. i used to be against blocking streets with protesters, but im all open now to *getting creative* The problem is that they never learn. We already had Trump. We already became a pariah and laughingstock during that period. No lessons were learned by the voters, and he was reelected.
2017-2021 people assumed the guardrails would hold and that things cant get that bad. and then they were convinced by a traitorous Fourth Estate that they would hold again.
lets see how normie republicans and "moderate/independants" feel about the EU turning their back on us, losing a trade war or actual war with canada and mexico, and then tanking the economy past a recession. Then theyll see that the guardrails are removed and they should probably get vocal at least against trump/gop
when canadians all boo americans during hockey, its a chilling and surreal moment for americans, and more stuff like that will continue to pop into their daily lives. why are so many bad things happening and who is leading us right now?
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United States24799 Posts
On March 01 2025 12:00 Vivax wrote:
5. Assassination of an Iranian general that somehow didn‘t become that important as it seemed
Primarily due to luck.
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On March 01 2025 12:12 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 12:00 Vivax wrote:
5. Assassination of an Iranian general that somehow didn‘t become that important as it seemed Primarily due to luck.
Learned something new.
Not enough within a few minutes, seems like a tough nut to chew.
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On March 01 2025 07:58 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 07:39 EnDeR_ wrote:
I'm curious, how is this playing in the conservative sphere? Anyone have any insights? Conservative voices, or even devil’s advocates seem to have gone inactive here since Trump got confirmed and actually started doing various things. Why? Who could possibly guess? I would be interested too to get some insight here though for sure
I've been very busy the past few weeks.
But also, as I said in the feedback thread, you guys here have truly gone further off the deep end. There's hardly a measured opinion by a calm, rational person to be found.
I am generally a supporter of Ukraine, but Zelensky seems to be something of a stubborn ass and this would not be the first time a leader has gotten angry with him, although maybe the first time in public. He appears to believe that he is owed everything he wants.
Meanwhile, where are the Europeans? For decades, whining and bitching about the US with memes about the world's police man from their own snug position of easy, useless moral superiority. Cry me a river. The EU is bigger than Russia but they continue to do almost nothing. American leaders have now been begging Europe for almost two decades to take their own defense more seriously. Robert Gates, an Obama sec def, made a speech to an EU group (maybe it ess Munich idk) years ago saying Americans would get tired of bankrolling their security. Obama of course made noise about other NATO countries failing to meet their commitments. Say what you want about Trump, but Russia can no longer be dislodged and this, and previous, administrations recognized that America has things to worry about in the Pacific. If Europe is so great, let them defend themselves. They claim they have all this potential. Let's see it. Maybe they can do it without starting another world War.
And while I'm not a fan of Trump's approach here, people acting like he's some traitor are probably the same people who think the bureaucracy has a God given right to be an opposition party whenever there is a Republican president. Trump won on this, public sentiment is no longer so lopsided. "The right side of history" people making fools of themselves yet again.
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On March 01 2025 12:28 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 07:58 WombaT wrote:On March 01 2025 07:39 EnDeR_ wrote:
I'm curious, how is this playing in the conservative sphere? Anyone have any insights? Conservative voices, or even devil’s advocates seem to have gone inactive here since Trump got confirmed and actually started doing various things. Why? Who could possibly guess? I would be interested too to get some insight here though for sure I've been very busy the past few weeks. But also, as I said in the feedback thread, you guys here have truly gone further off the deep end. There's hardly a measured opinion by a calm, rational person to be found. I am generally a supporter of Ukraine, but Zelensky seems to be something of a stubborn ass and this would not be the first time a leader has gotten angry with him, although maybe the first time in public. He appears to believe that he is owed everything he wants. Meanwhile, where are the Europeans? For decades, whining and bitching about the US with memes about the world's police man from their own snug position of easy, useless moral superiority. Cry me a river. The EU is bigger than Russia but they continue to do almost nothing. American leaders have now been begging Europe for almost two decades to take their own defense more seriously. Robert Gates, an Obama sec def, made a speech to an EU group (maybe it ess Munich idk) years ago saying Americans would get tired of bankrolling their security. Obama of course made noise about other NATO countries failing to meet their commitments. Say what you want about Trump, but Russia can no longer be dislodged and this, and previous, administrations recognized that America has things to worry about in the Pacific. If Europe is so great, let them defend themselves. They claim they have all this potential. Let's see it. Maybe they can do it without starting another world War.
My mostly amareurish knowledge level is the following:
We are weak on the intelligence level because we have factually ceded most of the IT business to America.
If you think about it, almost every system in the world that wants to be compatible with viable software is going to be run by Microsoft, or apple.
Asian competitors are still dependant on being compatible with western software if they want a slice of the cake.
They are just as competent but also need to be granted certain licenses.
It is grossly underestimated how big the threat is on the IT level if a country decides to limit or stop its services on that level. Or even sabotage it.
Imagine that you live in a random European country and your OS refuses to boot because another country providing the service is required to deny you access to their infrastructure for strategic reasons.
Which is the worst case scenario.
I don’t think that all of Russia runs on Linux and owns no apple branded phones. So that‘s leverage on them too as long as they don‘t develop on their own.
In other words, you are likely overestimating how much influence European countries have in their decision making when it comes to their military decisions.
Or maybe I‘m drunk and stupid, in which case you are free to correct me.
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On March 01 2025 12:47 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2025 12:28 Introvert wrote:On March 01 2025 07:58 WombaT wrote:On March 01 2025 07:39 EnDeR_ wrote:
I'm curious, how is this playing in the conservative sphere? Anyone have any insights? Conservative voices, or even devil’s advocates seem to have gone inactive here since Trump got confirmed and actually started doing various things. Why? Who could possibly guess? I would be interested too to get some insight here though for sure I've been very busy the past few weeks. But also, as I said in the feedback thread, you guys here have truly gone further off the deep end. There's hardly a measured opinion by a calm, rational person to be found. I am generally a supporter of Ukraine, but Zelensky seems to be something of a stubborn ass and this would not be the first time a leader has gotten angry with him, although maybe the first time in public. He appears to believe that he is owed everything he wants. Meanwhile, where are the Europeans? For decades, whining and bitching about the US with memes about the world's police man from their own snug position of easy, useless moral superiority. Cry me a river. The EU is bigger than Russia but they continue to do almost nothing. American leaders have now been begging Europe for almost two decades to take their own defense more seriously. Robert Gates, an Obama sec def, made a speech to an EU group (maybe it ess Munich idk) years ago saying Americans would get tired of bankrolling their security. Obama of course made noise about other NATO countries failing to meet their commitments. Say what you want about Trump, but Russia can no longer be dislodged and this, and previous, administrations recognized that America has things to worry about in the Pacific. If Europe is so great, let them defend themselves. They claim they have all this potential. Let's see it. Maybe they can do it without starting another world War. My mostly amareurish knowledge level is the following: We are weak on the intelligence level because we have factually ceded most of the IT business to America. If you think about it, almost every system in the world that wants to be compatible with viable software is going to be run by Microsoft, or apple. Asian competitors are still dependant on being compatible with western software if they want a slice of the cake. They are just as competent but also need to be granted certain licenses. It is grossly underestimated how big the threat is on the IT level if a country decides to limit or stop its services on that level. Or even sabotage it. Imagine that you live in a random European country and your OS refuses to boot because another country providing the service is required to deny you access to their infrastructure for strategic reasons. Which is the worst case scenario. I don’t think that all of Russia runs on Linux and owns no apple branded phones. So that‘s leverage on them too as long as they don‘t develop on their own. In other words, you are likely overestimating how much influence European countries have in their decision making when it comes to their military decisions. Or maybe I‘m drunk and stupid, in which case you are free to correct me.
This war is not an area of expertise to me, but I'm not sure that's right. If anything, this war has shown how important the low tech aspect is. Just having more men and more guns is a huge deal. Sure, things like Starlink for Ukraine or US intel sharing are important, but so having men on the ground.
Sure, the EU is behind in tech (mostly a self-inflicted problem as I understand it, which would be par for the course over there). But it's not like American tech companies don't want to do business with Europe.
I think the more fundamental problem is that the Europeans don't want to put up the money or spend political capital on their defense generally. They thought they could count on America to do everything, all while complaining about the US the whole time. Europe and friends has more people and a higher GDP than Russia, by a huge margin. Again, this criticism of Europe is not new and it's not unique to Trump. Even when I was kid I had a sense that Europeans thought they were so great but never actually did anything of importance. This is just roosting time for the chickens.
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