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On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote: Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true.
You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue.
Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true?
Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense.
He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not.
Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter).
Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less.
Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable
Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell.
Thanks, I know Biden has the power. It's also possible to abuse it. And he is, just like he was abusing laws to try and "forgive" student loan debt. And Biden promised he wouldn't pardon Hunter and then did so anyways, after being (belatedly) prosecuted by his own Justice Department.
but you're just reenforcing my point (of course I disagree with much of what you said, but no matter ). All the smug moral superiority was totally unearned. Also absolutely no accountability for the Afghanistan withdrawal, where as usual they just retreat to "but Trump!" for that too. It's a testament to failure of the Democratic party that after four years of Biden the American electorate looked at both of them and said "yeah, we'd rather actually have that guy back, thanks." But as your post shows, no Democrat will ever ultimately try to figure anything out, they'll just blame the voters.
Say whatever you will about Trump, all this is just reinforcing by point. Of course many will just say that "well Trump showed the rules don't matter so we don't care." There are a number of problems with that statement but it's not Trump that makes people equivocate on coldblooded murder.
And how many people here and elsewhere consistently slam Biden on the ostensible left versus the frankly pathetic level of scrutiny Trump receives from his own ideological wing of the bird?
One of the problems in using Biden and ‘the left’ interchangeably is well, a bunch of the latter didn’t come out and vote for him.
Agreed, it’s a completely unearned sense of smug moral superiority. Nobody had to do anything, just stand still and observe an uncritical, slavish cult to an absolute cunt develop.
In the same sense that I’m not a particularly sexually pious guy, but if everyone around me all started doing porn, well relatively speaking I would become so.
People just don’t want to own their strongman enabling and want to moan about how unfair it is they’re being perceived as strongman enablers
I didn't quite use them interchangeably, but I did lump it together to display a problem. Praising an act of violence while decrying other "acts of violence" or "injustice" is just a good contrast. Moreover, we've had people attacking Biden from the left, but still no reckoning with his actual failures, and just like Russiagate, still no admission that all this time later the people who said that Biden was fit to be president were simply wrong. Criticisms that Biden wasn't more harsh with Israel, more aggressive with student loan bailouts, or failed to pack the courts are not exactly counter-examples to what I'm saying.
I just don't want to hear a single person to who says "what time it is" re the shooting ever talk about how they or their side are in the right about anything, quite frankly. This whole episode has been one of the more disturbing things I've seen recently even though I should have expected it. And while I've been criticized recently for whataboutism that's mainly what I'm seeing here in response.
It’s whataboutery if one says ‘yeah we didn’t/did do x but they didn’t/did either’, and I’m rather familiar as to my eternal irritation Northern Irish politics may be a world leader in that regard. In this particular instance it’s ’hey wait a minute plenty have been meaningfully critical of Biden and the Democratic Party.’
It’s certainly a criticism one can level at the Democratic Party itself, and a certain cohort of myopic supporters do just go along with whatever the party says.
Equally you had plenty who rather quickly changed their tune on the man being fit mentally to be President, when it became rather visibly apparent that was the case, even amongst your moderate centrist types.
Go further left and yeah, most criticisms are going to come from that place. There might be some overlap with your worldview on something like criticism of Hunter Biden’s pardon, but one wouldn’t expect a huge amount.
As I’ve said about Trump I don’t expect Conservatives to hold him to account based on my values, but their own.
The issue with lumping disparate groups who have quite different values, and hey we all do it to some degree is one ends up with a composite grouping that can always be charged with hypocrisy, because that grouping is actually in conflict with itself.
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
From what I recall Biden was in fact very aggressively pursuing student loan forgiveness. He couldn't accomplish very much mainly because of powerful opposition, not because he didn't try hard enough. He tried plenty and failed because the US president is not a dictator.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
On December 24 2024 03:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Nice to see the Democrats commute 37 of 40 death penalty sentences. You can't really credit Biden for it... He is not fully lucid. Whoever made it happen... Good for them. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkxe4xlvgxo
The fact that there are over 2000 people being sentenced to death in the US... especially knowing how many of those cases are most likely innocent. Unbelievable.
No one has any idea how many are innocent. However, this is why a nation needs strong advocates for all members of society. This is why BLM is very bad. BLM has poor credibility. In clear cut cases, like Sammy Yatim, BLM does nothing. In the NYC subway case, it is very possible that Neely guy died in police custody. That is why we only see the very beginning of the altercation on video. We do not see the video where Penney released the victim into police custody still alive. BLM's cred is so damaged hardly any one will listen to the theory that the cops may have killed him. Contrast this with how people react when Barry Scheck's Project Innocence announces someone is innocent.
Barry Scheck is an American Hero.
And to be clear, I am not saying the cops did kill him. I am saying that if Barry Scheck announced that theory people would take it seriously. BLM says it and people laugh.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
Who told you that?
Even quite early in the pandemic, and especially as it mutated into more infectious but less lethal variants that broadly wasn’t the messaging at all.
Aside from well, even folks outside of risk groups still having contact with risk groups, the main warning was COVID clogging up hospital systems, them being unable to deal with the backlog and a lot of additional death due to being unable to manage a big numbers spike.
There’s a hell of a lot of wisdom after the fact on this one, and often very selective at that. Epidemiologists and policy makers were the ones trying to figure out a nascent situation, and they didn’t have a 100% hit rate, but it would be odd if they did.
Until I have access to some parallel universes where different approaches were tried, including the ‘hey it’s not a big deal let’s do nothing’, we don’t really have a way to compare to a hypothetical.
When it comes to crime I favour stiff sentencing along with a proper rehabilitation pathway. This is, by far, the most expensive option. Therefore, almost no elected government officials will make that option a reality. The government is drowning in debt.
Middle left wingers want soft sentencing with some good rehab. Middle Right wingers want stiff sentences and do not want to fund proper rehab and retraining. Given these two very imperfect choices I side with the Liberal/Democrat methodology of dealing with crime and criminals. IMO, The Demo/Liberal method leads to better long term outcomes than the even more flawed right wing method. The right wing method turns too many soft criminals into hardened criminals.
Fraud and forgery were my game as a teenager. I ripped off many 10s of thousands of dollars. I prolly ripped off 50K in the summer of 2006. I never got caught. I was a mean, nasty, evil mother fucker. I got crushed, and deservedly so, when I finally got caught by my father just before I turned 20. His punishment altered my view of the world and all my actions from that point. Many of the criminals I knew changed their ways after stiff sentencing. Many other criminals who received weak punishments laughed at the justice system and just kept on rolling.
I pretty much adhere to all the "left wing"/"liberal" methods of dealing with crime and criminals except the punishment and sentencing part. You gotta step into these mofos. They gotta feel it. Then, the criminals must be offered a credible pathway to a productive, hard working, fulfilling life.
On December 25 2024 00:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote: When it comes to crime I favour stiff sentencing along with a proper rehabilitation pathway. This is, by far, the most expensive option. Therefore, almost no elected government officials will make that option a reality. The government is drowning in debt.
Middle left wingers want soft sentencing with some good rehab. Middle Right wingers want stiff sentences and do not want to fund proper rehab and retraining. Given these two very imperfect choices I side with the Liberal/Democrat methodology of dealing with crime and criminals. IMO, The Demo/Liberal method leads to better long term outcomes that the even more flawed right wing method.
It really depends on the offence, or the circumstance.
Throwing some shoplifter with mental health problems or substance abuse issues into jail for years, maybe not the most productive.
Throwing some high level corporate fraudster into prison for a decent stretch, you won’t find a huge amount of pushback from the wider left on that.
For all the many other issues with their political structures, one can only look on with envy on how China drops the hammer on such types.
There’s a misconception that the wider left is particularly soft on crime, many are perfectly happy with some punitive measures. Just not jailing every small time petty criminal as the US system seems to love doing.
Im left wing and Im all for the death penalty in cases where the person 100% did it. Mass shooters, Dylan Roof for example, dont belong on this planet. The cops should have never even taken him into custody and just ended it there.
On December 25 2024 00:20 WombaT wrote: Throwing some shoplifter with mental health problems or substance abuse issues into jail for years, maybe not the most productive.
Throwing some high level corporate fraudster into prison for a decent stretch, you won’t find a huge amount of pushback from the wider left on that.
OR the shoplifter claims they have mental health problems. In a wider sense, every human on earth has mental health problems. We are both speaking in vague terms so I'll make things more specific.
I favour the Canadian system almost completely EXCEPT when it comes to sentencing. Jail time needs to be double or triple. So a random shoplifter stealing less than $200 in stuff now might be caught and released in hours. I say that guy gets the weekend in jail.
Very generally speaking, up to the last 15 years, the US system has been too punitive. I am pretty much 100% aligned with Barry Scheck's views in this area.
The reaction/response over the last 15 years to the US justice system being too punitive has been an over reaction in the other direction. Both sides are screaming and yelling at each other over this issue. I say: it is a very hard thing to get right and reasonable people can disagree.
On December 25 2024 00:25 Sadist wrote: Im left wing and Im all for the death penalty in cases where the person 100% did it. Mass shooters, Dylan Roof for example, dont belong on this planet. The cops should have never even taken him into custody and just ended it there.
I disagree with the death penalty because you are communicating to the populace that life is not precious. I am very happy the Toronto Van killer from 2018 was taken into custody. He killed 10 and badly injured 15. I think the cop who had a chance to kill him and did not kill him is a hero. Alek Minassian, the van killer, said he wanted to die that day. He can now be examined, analyzed and studied. Canadian society has the opportunity to learn how to produce fewer Alek Minassians and Marc Lepines. If you kill these people then you never get their side of the story.
Karla Homolka is a serial murderer. She now lives a productive family life. Her punishment and rehab path was much less expensive than an execution.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
Who told you that?
Even quite early in the pandemic, and especially as it mutated into more infectious but less lethal variants that broadly wasn’t the messaging at all.
Aside from well, even folks outside of risk groups still having contact with risk groups, the main warning was COVID clogging up hospital systems, them being unable to deal with the backlog and a lot of additional death due to being unable to manage a big numbers spike.
There’s a hell of a lot of wisdom after the fact on this one, and often very selective at that. Epidemiologists and policy makers were the ones trying to figure out a nascent situation, and they didn’t have a 100% hit rate, but it would be odd if they did.
Until I have access to some parallel universes where different approaches were tried, including the ‘hey it’s not a big deal let’s do nothing’, we don’t really have a way to compare to a hypothetical.
How does it tell you otherwise based on the normal ppl? Did more normal ppl die or not?
So Trump wanted to promote someone to AG who regularly buys drugs, paid for sex, including with minors. He knew all of this and still wanted him in that position. I guess MAGA has decided (or more than likely always was) the pro groomer party.
Seriously disgusting shit. Like how are so many people supporting this? It is fucking shameful. So much of this is exactly against your "Christian values". It is all just bullshit to manipulate. How is this not eye opening?
Edit: @ray there is a whole bunch, like pages, but the stupidest was when he got confused and told people to inject themselves with disinfectants. Early dementia maybe, but that is not exactly a good thing when he was just elected and this was 5 years ago.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
To be clear, you just stated that someone told you that covid was deadly to everyone. Who is this someone, who supposedly said covid had a 100% (or near-100%) death rate if infected? I will happily disagree with them, as that was certainly not the position of the scientific and medical communities, nor the Democratic and Republican parties.
I assume the "and pray" ending was just your personal addition, since obviously that's a whole other ridiculous issue.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
To be clear, you just stated that someone told you that covid was deadly to everyone. Who is this someone, who supposedly said covid had a 100% (or near-100%) death rate if infected? I will happily disagree with them, as that was certainly not the position of the scientific and medical communities, nor the Democratic and Republican parties.
I assume the "and pray" ending was just your personal addition, since obviously that's a whole other ridiculous issue.
Idk. if "you just stated that someone told you that covid was deadly to everyone. Who is this someone, who supposedly said covid had a 100% (or near-100%) death rate if infected?"
idk how i did? I dont know, as i didnt? What did i do?
On December 25 2024 00:56 Billyboy wrote: So Trump wanted to promote someone to AG who regularly buys drugs, paid for sex, including with minors. He knew all of this and still wanted him in that position. I guess MAGA has decided (or more than likely always was) the pro groomer party.
Seriously disgusting shit. Like how are so many people supporting this? It is fucking shameful. So much of this is exactly against your "Christian values". It is all just bullshit to manipulate. How is this not eye opening?
Edit: @ray there is a whole bunch, like pages, but the stupidest was when he got confused and told people to inject themselves with disinfectants. Early dementia maybe, but that is not exactly a good thing when he was just elected and this was 5 years ago.
I dont mind what Trump did, this discussion was about what Fauci did. What Trump did is another disdussion.
On December 25 2024 00:56 Billyboy wrote: So Trump wanted to promote someone to AG who regularly buys drugs, paid for sex, including with minors. He knew all of this and still wanted him in that position. I guess MAGA has decided (or more than likely always was) the pro groomer party.
Seriously disgusting shit. Like how are so many people supporting this? It is fucking shameful. So much of this is exactly against your "Christian values". It is all just bullshit to manipulate. How is this not eye opening?
Edit: @ray there is a whole bunch, like pages, but the stupidest was when he got confused and told people to inject themselves with disinfectants. Early dementia maybe, but that is not exactly a good thing when he was just elected and this was 5 years ago.
I dont mind what Trump did, this discussion was about what Fauci did. What Trump did is another disdussion.
This was you.
On December 24 2024 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: So what did he say?
EDIT: I genuinely don't remember because most of the stuff said about COVID was bullshit imo, so i didn't pay much attention to it. Not to mention every single thing Trump says gets twisted into some horrific BS in Finnish media (i know hw says a lot of shit, but here it's literally everything).
If you want to hold people to the standard of 100% truth, great. But then you HAVE to do it for your guys too (probably even more) or you are full of shit and don't actually want 100% truth, it is just a line of attack you currently feel justified in having rather than some real issue.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is
[...]
That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
At the time of the "99% harmless" statement, 4.5% (!!!) of cases resulted in death. So even if we interpreted "totally harmless" as "deathless", he'd already be wrong by a mile. But harm includes a lot more than just death, so he was extremely wrong. It was strictly a gigantic lie. Trump was one of the most harmful actors during the pandemic. He consistently downplayed Covid while propagating fake treatments.
On December 24 2024 23:26 Magic Powers wrote: A few Trump lies during the pandemic:
- Covid is 99% harmless - Only 6% of people (those who got infected) died from Covid - Children are almost immune - If we stopped testing, there wouldn't be cases - US Covid numbers better than most of the world - Hydroxychloroquine is effective against Covid - Mentioned using disinfect and sunlight to treat Covid - The tests are broken - and plenty more
Also, if you say that "most of the stuff said about Covid" was "bullshit", then you should consider not reading any right-wing news sources for the rest of your life. Because these were the ones spreading most of the bullshit.
1) yes it is 2) that's a lie 3) lie 4) lie 5) no idea, maybe a lie(?) 6) lie 7) lie 8) most likely 9 That's not "most of the stuff said about covid" tbh. (1) was told otherwise to us, while untrue. Same as (2). Covid was entirely harmless to anyone outside the risk groups. I am not saying it was harmless to the risk groups, i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray.
To be clear, you just stated that someone told you that covid was deadly to everyone. Who is this someone, who supposedly said covid had a 100% (or near-100%) death rate if infected? I will happily disagree with them, as that was certainly not the position of the scientific and medical communities, nor the Democratic and Republican parties.
I assume the "and pray" ending was just your personal addition, since obviously that's a whole other ridiculous issue.
Idk. if "you just stated that someone told you that covid was deadly to everyone. Who is this someone, who supposedly said covid had a 100% (or near-100%) death rate if infected?"
idk how i did? I dont know, as i didnt? What did i do?
I bolded it. Stop making claims that you can't support. Saying "idk" isn't good enough. Just think before you post absurd statements like "i am saying it was told to us it is deadly fucking shit to all of the people if we dont stay at home and pray".
Or at least come prepared with a source/citation. As you can see, many people will happily call you out on such nonsense.
EPT
