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On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true.
You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue.
Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true?
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On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true.
I feel like you're having selective amnesia when you try to rag on democrats. It's not that they're better or whatever, it's that you don't care about what your party is doing to speak up as long as they beat dems. People are holding the dems accountable. They just lost the fucking election. Meanwhile the Roligarchy is proceeding apace with nary a yelp of dissent from you people. Just stop. It's embarrasing.
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United States24812 Posts
I do think any discussion framed as left/right should not try to equate/compare pandemic-related lying between the two major political parties' representatives and experts... there is no comparison if you look back to Trump's language in 2020 and his MAGA allies.
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On December 24 2024 07:58 micronesia wrote:
I do think any discussion framed as left/right should not try to equate/compare pandemic-related lying between the two major political parties' representatives and experts... there is no comparison if you look back to Trump's language in 2020 and his MAGA allies.
Agreed. In a vacuum and on an absolute scale, Fauci probably didn't say and do everything perfectly. On the other hand, with consideration of the overall political context and on a relative scale, Trump and Republicans did infinitely more damage with their lies and actions than Fauci did. I think BlackJack has been doing a fine job of operating in the former space (vacuum/absolute), but no MAGA supporter has any sort of moral highground when it comes to lecturing others on the mishandling of covid.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On December 24 2024 08:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 07:58 micronesia wrote:
I do think any discussion framed as left/right should not try to equate/compare pandemic-related lying between the two major political parties' representatives and experts... there is no comparison if you look back to Trump's language in 2020 and his MAGA allies. Agreed. In a vacuum and on an absolute scale, Fauci probably didn't say and do everything perfectly. On the other hand, with consideration of the overall political context and on a relative scale, Trump and Republicans did infinitely more damage with their lies and actions than Fauci did. I think BlackJack has been doing a fine job of operating in the former space (vacuum/absolute), but no MAGA supporter has any sort of moral highground when it comes to lecturing others on the mishandling of covid.
Indeed, I don’t think BlackJack is full of shit on the issue of Fauci’s conduct at the time, I don’t doubt his sincerity there, but many absolutely are
Equally I think it’s daft to just lump ‘the left’ and assume various positions.
The folks who thought it was no great loss a healthcare CEO got shot tend to be against cronyist pardoning, and vice versa.
Personally I can’t say the former upset me massively, but I’m against pardoning in such an arbitrary manner on principle, the President shouldn’t have such a power it’s ridiculous, although occasionally yes, there will be specific pardons I think are morally reasonable.
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On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true?
Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense. And even that is selective, because he didn't commute eveyone on federal death row, he left the unpopular people there. Meanwhile we have the story from the WSJ about how Biden's cognitive decline was obvious back in 2021. Yet somehow most of the press and his party went to bat for him, all while he himself should have never run again in the first place. Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter). Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable for doing things like caving in to teachers unions who cynically tried to keep schools closed for as long as possible leading to massive learning loss. This one reason I'm glad Kamala lost, the arrogance and (unearned) superiority dems took over the past four years was totally unjustified, and now Biden can stop pretending he and his party were some defender of "norms" (spoiler: they never were).
Meanwhile lefty online discourse has been about either rationalizing or defending the United Healthcare shooter, though credit where it is due some here recognize what a bad thing it was. But the fact it's even an argument is just gross. All these people who especially in the last few years have claimed the reason they were losing was because they weren't mean enough are proving how out to lunch they really are. It's just not often this obvious. I want to see how the people cheering the CEO killing are going to square the circle on commuting the death sentences of literal murderers.
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On December 24 2024 10:30 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true? Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense.
Ahem. "Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/23/what-is-commuting-sentence-death-row-joe-biden/77172737007/
He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not.
Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter).
Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less.
Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable
Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell.
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On December 24 2024 12:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 10:30 Introvert wrote:On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true? Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense. Ahem. "Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/23/what-is-commuting-sentence-death-row-joe-biden/77172737007/ He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not. Show nested quote +Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter). Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less. Show nested quote +Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell.
Thanks, I know Biden has the power. It's also possible to abuse it. And he is, just like he was abusing laws to try and "forgive" student loan debt. And Biden promised he wouldn't pardon Hunter and then did so anyways, after being (belatedly) prosecuted by his own Justice Department.
but you're just reenforcing my point (of course I disagree with much of what you said, but no matter ). All the smug moral superiority was totally unearned. Also absolutely no accountability for the Afghanistan withdrawal, where as usual they just retreat to "but Trump!" for that too. It's a testament to failure of the Democratic party that after four years of Biden the American electorate looked at both of them and said "yeah, we'd rather actually have that guy back, thanks." But as your post shows, no Democrat will ever ultimately try to figure anything out, they'll just blame the voters.
Say whatever you will about Trump, all this is just reinforcing by point. Of course many will just say that "well Trump showed the rules don't matter so we don't care." There are a number of problems with that statement but it's not Trump that makes people equivocate on coldblooded murder.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On December 24 2024 13:48 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 12:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 10:30 Introvert wrote:On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true? Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense. Ahem. "Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/23/what-is-commuting-sentence-death-row-joe-biden/77172737007/ He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not. Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter). Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less. Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell. Thanks, I know Biden has the power. It's also possible to abuse it. And he is, just like he was abusing laws to try and "forgive" student loan debt. And Biden promised he wouldn't pardon Hunter and then did so anyways, after being (belatedly) prosecuted by his own Justice Department. but you're just reenforcing my point (of course I disagree with much of what you said, but no matter ). All the smug moral superiority was totally unearned. Also absolutely no accountability for the Afghanistan withdrawal, where as usual they just retreat to "but Trump!" for that too. It's a testament to failure of the Democratic party that after four years of Biden the American electorate looked at both of them and said "yeah, we'd rather actually have that guy back, thanks." But as your post shows, no Democrat will ever ultimately try to figure anything out, they'll just blame the voters. Say whatever you will about Trump, all this is just reinforcing by point. Of course many will just say that "well Trump showed the rules don't matter so we don't care." There are a number of problems with that statement but it's not Trump that makes people equivocate on coldblooded murder.
And how many people here and elsewhere consistently slam Biden on the ostensible left versus the frankly pathetic level of scrutiny Trump receives from his own ideological wing of the bird?
One of the problems in using Biden and ‘the left’ interchangeably is well, a bunch of the latter didn’t come out and vote for him.
Agreed, it’s a completely unearned sense of smug moral superiority. Nobody had to do anything, just stand still and observe an uncritical, slavish cult to an absolute cunt develop.
In the same sense that I’m not a particularly sexually pious guy, but if everyone around me all started doing porn, well relatively speaking I would become so.
People just don’t want to own their strongman enabling and want to moan about how unfair it is they’re being perceived as strongman enablers
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On December 24 2024 16:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 13:48 Introvert wrote:On December 24 2024 12:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 10:30 Introvert wrote:On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true? Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense. Ahem. "Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/23/what-is-commuting-sentence-death-row-joe-biden/77172737007/ He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not. Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter). Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less. Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell. Thanks, I know Biden has the power. It's also possible to abuse it. And he is, just like he was abusing laws to try and "forgive" student loan debt. And Biden promised he wouldn't pardon Hunter and then did so anyways, after being (belatedly) prosecuted by his own Justice Department. but you're just reenforcing my point (of course I disagree with much of what you said, but no matter ). All the smug moral superiority was totally unearned. Also absolutely no accountability for the Afghanistan withdrawal, where as usual they just retreat to "but Trump!" for that too. It's a testament to failure of the Democratic party that after four years of Biden the American electorate looked at both of them and said "yeah, we'd rather actually have that guy back, thanks." But as your post shows, no Democrat will ever ultimately try to figure anything out, they'll just blame the voters. Say whatever you will about Trump, all this is just reinforcing by point. Of course many will just say that "well Trump showed the rules don't matter so we don't care." There are a number of problems with that statement but it's not Trump that makes people equivocate on coldblooded murder. And how many people here and elsewhere consistently slam Biden on the ostensible left versus the frankly pathetic level of scrutiny Trump receives from his own ideological wing of the bird? One of the problems in using Biden and ‘the left’ interchangeably is well, a bunch of the latter didn’t come out and vote for him. Agreed, it’s a completely unearned sense of smug moral superiority. Nobody had to do anything, just stand still and observe an uncritical, slavish cult to an absolute cunt develop. In the same sense that I’m not a particularly sexually pious guy, but if everyone around me all started doing porn, well relatively speaking I would become so. People just don’t want to own their strongman enabling and want to moan about how unfair it is they’re being perceived as strongman enablers
I didn't quite use them interchangeably, but I did lump it together to display a problem. Praising an act of violence while decrying other "acts of violence" or "injustice" is just a good contrast. Moreover, we've had people attacking Biden from the left, but still no reckoning with his actual failures, and just like Russiagate, still no admission that all this time later the people who said that Biden was fit to be president were simply wrong. Criticisms that Biden wasn't more harsh with Israel, more aggressive with student loan bailouts, or failed to pack the courts are not exactly counter-examples to what I'm saying.
I just don't want to hear a single person to who says "what time it is" re the shooting ever talk about how they or their side are in the right about anything, quite frankly. This whole episode has been one of the more disturbing things I've seen recently even though I should have expected it. And while I've been criticized recently for whataboutism that's mainly what I'm seeing here in response.
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United States44441 Posts
The Afghanistan withdrawal was Trump. He surrendered to the Taliban, it just went into effect after his term ended.
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On December 24 2024 17:24 KwarK wrote:
The Afghanistan withdrawal was Trump. He surrendered to the Taliban, it just went into effect after his term ended.
elaborate please
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On December 24 2024 18:49 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 17:24 KwarK wrote:
The Afghanistan withdrawal was Trump. He surrendered to the Taliban, it just went into effect after his term ended. elaborate please what is there to elaborate?
The deal with the Taliban to fully withdraw by May 2001 was signed in Feb 2000. Trump was President at the time.
He signed a deal with the Taliban to withdraw. Biden simply honoured a deal America had signed before he became President.
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I find it funny that some people here defend "government white lies" while watching in real time how a tiny fringe belief like antivaxxers turned into a massive world wide belief in a couple of years, can you imagine how many people will die or be seriously ill as the result of that?
It's known that political ideology can be closely tied with neurology/genetics and I can find no better proof than to listen to people argue in favour of being lied by the government for their own good, god damn... we clearly are running on different hardware.
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Northern Ireland27478 Posts
On December 24 2024 19:11 baal wrote:
I find it funny that some people here defend "government white lies" while watching in real time how a tiny fringe belief like antivaxxers turned into a massive world wide belief in a couple of years, can you imagine how many people will die or be seriously ill as the result of that?
It's known that political ideology can be closely tied with neurology/genetics and I can find no better proof than to listen to people argue in favour of being lied by the government for their own good, god damn... we clearly are running on different hardware.
What’s the link? Yes we’re watching in real time a fringe group grow substantially that’s entirely immune to actual evidence persuading them otherwise.
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On December 24 2024 13:48 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2024 12:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 10:30 Introvert wrote:On December 24 2024 05:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 24 2024 04:49 Introvert wrote:
Biden in particular and the left in general really covering themselves in glory after the election. "But we're better than they are" really taking a hit recently, from crony pardons, justifying lying by public health officials, cheering the death of a CEO they don't like while simultaneously cheering the commutation of murderers (but not all of them, very principled! ). If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true. You sarcastically said Biden in particular is covering himself in glory. What did he recently do that you're criticizing? You listed the lying of public health officials (which Biden did not do) and the cheering of the death of the CEO (which Biden did not do), and maybe you don't like that he commuted some death sentences (but plenty of people disagree with you). If you're only talking about the Hunter Biden pardon, then I agree with you on that one specific issue. Also, I don't think this sentence makes sense: "If to some it was ever for a brief moment believable, we are again reminded it isn't actually true." What is "it"? Glory? Democrats being better than Republicans? Lying/Cheering/Pardoning/Commuting? And whatever "it" is, why isn't "it" true? Well all these things are going together recently. In particular, we have Biden who I think itis now safe to say is abusing the pardon power not just in pardonong his son for no good reason, but now basically undoing federal law because he doesn't "believe in" capital punishment or some such nonsense. Ahem. "Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the president "shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/12/23/what-is-commuting-sentence-death-row-joe-biden/77172737007/ He's legally allowed to do it, whether you like it or not. Most dems aren't even mad he pardoned Hunter, saying things like "I understand. " But they are upset they are left holding the bag after defending him (they should have known better, but no matter). Plenty of Democrats have said they disagree with Joe pardoning Hunter. I certainly did. How many Republicans were mad when Trump pardoned his family and friends? And Hunter Biden did far, far less. Re: covid, there has been no self-reflection after letting people like Fauci run things and no attempt to hold anyone accountable Yeah no shit there was no accountability; millions of Americans with the memory of a goldfish just reelected the idiot who massively dropped the ball on handling the pandemic (despite being gifted an expert response team from Obama that Trump disbanded) and decided to not elect the Vice President who just oversaw the greatest post-covid economic recovery in the entire world. Not to mention the 50 or so additional felonies that Trump committed, that'll never even be added to his criminal record because all further charges are being dropped solely due to him becoming president again. If accountability actually existed, Trump would be in prison and then Hell. Thanks, I know Biden has the power. It's also possible to abuse it. And he is, just like he was abusing laws to try and "forgive" student loan debt. And Biden promised he wouldn't pardon Hunter and then did so anyways, after being (belatedly) prosecuted by his own Justice Department. but you're just reenforcing my point (of course I disagree with much of what you said, but no matter ). All the smug moral superiority was totally unearned. Also absolutely no accountability for the Afghanistan withdrawal, where as usual they just retreat to "but Trump!" for that too. It's a testament to failure of the Democratic party that after four years of Biden the American electorate looked at both of them and said "yeah, we'd rather actually have that guy back, thanks." But as your post shows, no Democrat will ever ultimately try to figure anything out, they'll just blame the voters. Say whatever you will about Trump, all this is just reinforcing by point. Of course many will just say that "well Trump showed the rules don't matter so we don't care." There are a number of problems with that statement but it's not Trump that makes people equivocate on coldblooded murder.
First of all, you keep talking about moral superiority of Democrats/Biden over Republicans/Trump, which is necessarily on a relative/comparative scale: X is superior to Y. So when you criticize Democrats for being/acting morally superior to Republicans (they are), or criticize people for suggesting that Biden is morally superior to Trump (which he is, of course, as shown by their respective lives and presidencies), you can't then turn around and say "they just retreat to "but Trump!"". You're inviting a comparison between two entities, and so that warrants an assessment of both of them, to see which is superior. When you just cite Biden's failures (and there are plenty), and ignore his accomplishments (there are plenty of these too, as outlined in the past) and everything Trump has done (which was net negative, by far), you're not looking at the entire picture of whether or not Biden is superior to Trump (he is) and whether or not Democrats are superior to Republicans (they are). We've gone over the pros and cons of all parties involved ad nauseam, and you're hand-waving away the other 99% of the conversation because you want to focus just on Hunter Biden, Afghanistan, and student loan debt.
Second, I (and others) have spent plenty of time calling out and examining the failures of Democratic leadership, including Biden and Harris, much more so than Republicans/conservatives have spent holding Trump accountable. You criticized the lack of accountability by Democrats, which is absolutely hypocritical. When it comes to the voters, of course they're also to blame because they're the ones who voted. Additionally blaming voters for their role doesn't absolve Biden or Harris or Trump or news outlets or any other partially-responsible party. You've spent plenty of time in this thread; you know that we've pointed out that there's plenty of blame to go around. Maybe you're attacking some legitimate Democratic sentiment outside of this thread, but it's not appropriate for you to project it onto us when we're definitely not saying Biden and Harris and Democrats are perfect.
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On December 24 2024 19:11 baal wrote:
I find it funny that some people here defend "government white lies" while watching in real time how a tiny fringe belief like antivaxxers turned into a massive world wide belief in a couple of years, can you imagine how many people will die or be seriously ill as the result of that?
It's known that political ideology can be closely tied with neurology/genetics and I can find no better proof than to listen to people argue in favour of being lied by the government for their own good, god damn... we clearly are running on different hardware.
Unfortunately, with Trump in charge again and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as secretary of Department of Health and Human Services, being anti-vaccine is going to become a core component of the Republican identity. It was starting during the end of Trump's term / throughout Biden's term, where the MAGA purity test included the rejection of effective medicine in favor of any fake treatment peddled by Trump, but now it's likely to become another permanent fixture under the conservative anti-science banner.
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On December 23 2024 09:25 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2024 08:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 23 2024 07:55 Billyboy wrote:On December 23 2024 04:50 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I honestly think the main thing he wants to happen is for people to agree that lying to the public 'for the greater good' is a fucked principle and that the 'truth' should be pursued even if it's not politically expedient or whatnot. Haven't really ever seen BJ wishing for some type of punishment for anyone. That seems like a rational but extraordinarily naïve aim. And only rational if he holds it for everyone equally, which seems extremely unlikely. Why is it naive and why wouldnt he hold it against everyone equally? Quite a few reasons. (1)National security is a pretty well known one. (2)Next it would malicious actors who use the information to mislead. (3)Then there is that lots of people just won't take the time or have the skills or horse power to understand it. And others, I can understand the want for total transparency though, (4)if everyone was willing maybe.
(1) I have never understood this national security thing, for me it looks like in US everything that is not comfortable to talk about you label it as "can't do because of national security".
(2) What? If the "truth was to be revealed" it would be information to mislead???
(3) Who cares? If people can't accept the truth, it's not the fault of the truth.
(4) Why would "everyone willing to accept" be grounds for revealing the truth? You know, not everyone want that anyways.
Bias is the reason. Fauci has lied way less than most of the people in power right now, if not all. For sure WAY less than Trump, RFK jr and Musk. So as long as we get a bunch of talk about how bad they are, then it would be agnostic and not just against the other guy.
I guess like you, i also can't know if BJ is / will be biased. So i give you that. For the rest, it's really just avoiding the issue of Fauci. Just because someone else might have done something similar or more damning, is not a reason to shrug it under the rug. Which was my point in "noone has balls to say anything". For instance, if you murdered a person, it's not a good idea to say in court "well other people also murdered people and got away with it!, if you get my point.
Did anyone say never investigate? Or just that, lets not investigate until after we have dealt with the far more pressing issue, the pandemic. One that many politicians, "non traditional media", MSM and others were actively sabotaging efforts to gain for themselves.
That's why i think you didn't answer. Because the answers are pretty much political jargon.
We have dealt with the pandemic now, is anyone willing to investigate? Right, no.
EDIT: Oh, i have no idea about Musk & RFK jr stances on anything about COVID. What did Trump say/do that is lies? I can't remember rn.
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On December 24 2024 21:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:What did Trump say/do that is lies? I can't remember rn.
Oh no.
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So what did he say?
EDIT: I genuinely don't remember because most of the stuff said about COVID was bullshit imo, so i didn't pay much attention to it. Not to mention every single thing Trump says gets twisted into some horrific BS in Finnish media (i know hw says a lot of shit, but here it's literally everything). 
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EPT
