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United States44450 Posts
On November 02 2022 23:18 Introvert wrote:Neither party is particularly responsible with taxpayer money, but in this case the GOP would not have passed the ARP or the IRA. So it's all relative. Show nested quote +On November 02 2022 23:12 KwarK wrote:
Introvert, if you’re trying to sell the Republicans as a party of balanced budgets you’re going to need to be a substantially better salesman than you’ve been so far. Democrats have historically been painted as tax and spend administrations but Republicans have been tax cut and spend for their last 5 terms. Their fiscal irresponsibility has known no limits.
That said, this is the midterms and the Republicans are fiscal hawks in opposition so maybe I can get behind that, as long as you vote Democrat in the presidential elections. Republican presidents are a fiscal nightmare, trillions in spend “paid for” by trillions in tax cuts because of a promise that growth stimulated by tax cuts will somehow result in lower taxes yielding more revenue. I would never try to paint them as balanced budgets, the few Republicans who try are demonized. It's pretend from everyone.
They would have passed the TCJA so while it’s all relative the Republicans are relatively worse. As in worse in relation to the Democrats. By any measurable criteria. They borrow more.
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Don't really have time for this at work, but i would at least say that the TCJA was less inflationary then the primarily dem spending I mentioned (if you wanted to argue that somehow you'd at least have to admit that a normal voter would see spending as different than tax cuts). Many economists were worried at the time, meanwhile I remember dems saying nothing was going to happen. So politically they own the current situation.
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On November 02 2022 23:45 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2022 23:25 Introvert wrote:
Don't really have time for this at work, but i would at least say that the TCJA was less inflationary then the primarily dem spending I mentioned (if you wanted to argue that somehow you'd at least have to admit that a normal voter would see spending as different than tax cuts). Many economists were worried at the time, meanwhile I remember dems saying nothing was going to happen. So politically they own the current situation. Blaming inflation on Dems is wrong because companies in every industry are price gouging and posting record profits
Exactly. Incase Americans have not noticed there is inflation globally. Infact, its my understanding inflation in the US is lower than most comparable countries (could be wrong though)
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One of the most "interesting" things when reading in (us) conservative spaces, is the fact that everything is plain US focussed.
Gas prices go up? Democrats, Biden!
Inflation? Democrats, Biden!
War in Ukraine/Russia? Democrats, Biden!
Bag of rice dropped in China? Democrats, Biden!
At this point i'm pretty sure its about 50-75% Trollfarms/Bots, no halfway sane human can have such a simplistic worldview..
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On November 02 2022 23:18 Introvert wrote:Neither party is particularly responsible with taxpayer money, but in this case the GOP would not have passed the ARP or the IRA. So it's all relative. Show nested quote +On November 02 2022 23:12 KwarK wrote:
Introvert, if you’re trying to sell the Republicans as a party of balanced budgets you’re going to need to be a substantially better salesman than you’ve been so far. Democrats have historically been painted as tax and spend administrations but Republicans have been tax cut and spend for their last 5 terms. Their fiscal irresponsibility has known no limits.
That said, this is the midterms and the Republicans are fiscal hawks in opposition so maybe I can get behind that, as long as you vote Democrat in the presidential elections. Republican presidents are a fiscal nightmare, trillions in spend “paid for” by trillions in tax cuts because of a promise that growth stimulated by tax cuts will somehow result in lower taxes yielding more revenue. I would never try to paint them as balanced budgets, the few Republicans who try are demonized. It's pretend from everyone.
But the Democrats are fiscally responsible with taxpayer money. The real inflationary parts of the government in its deficits always go down with democrats and up with republicans. Gun crime is measurably worse in red states, that's not "finger pointing" that's just statistics all states release. Ending cash bail for non-violent crimes is both fiscally responsible and doesn't increase crime.
I'm sorry but all you're telling me is that republicans lie, to you and voters, and you're still supporting them. Are you seeing any proposals from republicans about inflation or crime that is different from democrats? I heard you propose export quotas on things like natural gas but that seems like a big government action that will cause a trade war with Europe like what trump did with china. I get the whole "unpopular president loses midterms and we just not do anything until the next presidential" meta. I'm talking about moving forward. Even in Minnesota we've got a secretary of state race where the republican candidate rejects the 2020 election and a governor that wants to make Minnesota more like Iowa. Are you seeing proposals about how Republicans will deal with inflation, better your life in any way or improve your future prospects? The only things I've seen from republicans is that they want to shutdown the government again in order to cut entitlements.
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I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question?
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United States44450 Posts
On November 02 2022 23:58 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2022 23:45 plasmidghost wrote:On November 02 2022 23:25 Introvert wrote:
Don't really have time for this at work, but i would at least say that the TCJA was less inflationary then the primarily dem spending I mentioned (if you wanted to argue that somehow you'd at least have to admit that a normal voter would see spending as different than tax cuts). Many economists were worried at the time, meanwhile I remember dems saying nothing was going to happen. So politically they own the current situation. Blaming inflation on Dems is wrong because companies in every industry are price gouging and posting record profits Exactly. Incase Americans have not noticed there is inflation globally. Infact, its my understanding inflation in the US is lower than most comparable countries (could be wrong though)
The strong dollar is very deflationary. The US has been significantly less impacted than the UK, for example.
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United States44450 Posts
On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question?
It’d depend on the Democrat and the race in question. I was happy to vote for my state house candidate. She’s got some good policies on drug crime and homelessness.
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On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question? Because, for the most part, they believe everyone deserve affordable access to basic necessities like healthcare and social security. Because they believe in womens rights and responsible gun ownership.
Environmental protection
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On November 03 2022 03:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question? It’d depend on the Democrat and the race in question. I was happy to vote for my state house candidate. She’s got some good policies on drug crime and homelessness.
You have a link to the "good" policies?
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On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question?
You're just being purposefully obtuse.
Significant parts of the Democratic party support things like legalizing marijuana, ending the war on drugs, ending cash bail, heavily regulating banks, raising taxes on the high income/excess corporate profits/etc., universal healthcare, investing in infrastructure, universal pre-K, free public college, stronger unions, support the basic human rights of PoC and LGBTQ+ individuals, actually use empirical evidence to support public policy, actually care about public health, support the use of experts in public policy, support making voting more accessible, support transitions to renewable energy and divestment from fossil fuels, etc. etc. etc.
How they approach these issues leaves room for significant criticism, but there are plenty of solid policy positions that huge chunks of the party have taken that are explicitly good for the country and don't reference Republicans.
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On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question?
https://betoorourke.com/issues/
There are so many ways to answer that question, I just let you browse and chose. From minimal wage, to funding public schools, to protecting reproductive rights, to banning war weapons, to expanding medicaire, to legalizing marijuana, almost everything in that program is a step in the right direction.
A positive reason to vote O’Rourke if you are texan is that every single point in his program woukd make Texas a better place, if this is what matters.
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On November 03 2022 12:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question? https://betoorourke.com/issues/There are so many ways to answer that question, I just let you browse and chose. From minimal wage, to funding public schools, to protecting reproductive rights, to banning war weapons, to expanding medicaire, to legalizing marijuana, almost everything in that program is a step in the right direction. A positive reason to vote O’Rourke if you are texan is that every single point in his program woukd make Texas a better place, if this is what matters.
You're wrong. The only thing that can make Texas better is pwning the libs more! And not only is Abbott excellent at declaring libs have been pwnt, but that point doesn't even appear in Beto 's program!
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I think it's fair to ask what Democrats do to appeal to voters irrespective of Republicans, particularly if we're discussing how Republicans only seem to care about how Not-Democratty they are. Democrats do engage in their own thread of advertising to the beat of "well at least we're not Republicans, because they're nuts!", which I personally fucking hate and think is stupid, in large part because it sells the Democratic platform short. Republicans set a low bar that only ever seems to get lower. I could go on and on about how horrific Herschel Walker is as a candidate from basically every angle you can imagine, and it's all intentional by the Republican party.
Democrats don't need to do much to not be as bad as Republicans, energy would be much better spent highlighting what they actually bring to the table. Because while I think it's fair to ask what Democrats do besides point at Republicans, I think it's also fair to say that there's an answer to that question, because they do have a legitimate platform worth talking about, that isn't just a spite-driven backslide to the 1970's.
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On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question?
Why would an answer or positive reason be needed? The republican platform should be more then enough reason by itself.
If the most progressive segment of the left is very unhappy with the democratic party then they should break away and build their own party/movement. As long as they dont do that,the 2nd best option for them is to vote democratic.
These elections i dont dare to call. Republicans are overwhelmingly favored to win the house (~95% on the betting sites). Uncertainty and variance is very high this cycle i think. It could be an overwhelming republican victory but i wont rule out the democrats outperforming the polls by a large margin either. Keeping a majority is probably out of the question though.
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On November 03 2022 22:47 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2022 03:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
I am curious what the Democrat supporter response is to the "Like please good faith give me some of the positive reasons to vote for a Democrat that has nothing to do with Republicans" question? Why would an answer or positive reason be needed? The republican platform should be more then enough reason by itself. If the most progressive segment of the left is very unhappy with the democratic party then they should break away and build their own party/movement. As long as they dont do that,the 2nd best option for them is to vote democratic. These elections i dont dare to call. Republicans are overwhelmingly favored to win the house (~95% on the betting sites). Uncertainty and variance is very high this cycle i think. It could be an overwhelming republican victory but i wont rule out the democrats outperforming the polls by a large margin either. Keeping a majority is probably out of the question though. The problem with the more progressive left breaking away is that it just means both parts of the Democratic party will not win elections, even many they would otherwise currently win, and Republicans would get to rule with control of all 3 branches with a super majority.
Such is the nature, and problem, of a FPTP system. Whichever side breaks up consigns themselves to irrelevance.
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EPT
