US Politics Mega-thread - Page 3734

On July 18 2022 18:23 gobbledydook wrote:
It's a catch 22, because if you hold show votes all day then you get criticized for wasting the taxpayer's money on grandstanding.

On July 18 2022 18:25 Gorsameth wrote:
Doesn't matter if a senator is voting or scratching his ass. He still gets paid the same...

On July 18 2022 18:29 gobbledydook wrote:

You're of course logically correct, but you could say the same for the guy who shows up to work and just surfs the net all day and does nothing useful. Both are wastes of time and money and you could argue they deserve to be fired.

On July 18 2022 15:54 Djabanete wrote:

Schumer seems to think it would be bad optics to say, “Okay, we’re going to vote once a week on simple, basic economic issues, starting with extending the Expanded Child Tax Credit indefinitely. In the coming weeks we’ll vote to peg the federal minimum wage to inflation / make capital gains regular income / make your rent tax deductible / etc. We’ll probably lose most of these votes, but at least you’ll all see what you’re missing by having all these Republicans in the Senate.” IMO they could easily keep up that pace from now until the midterms, and it would be great optics, but what do I know.

On July 18 2022 16:13 Velr wrote:
Or it would just paint the democrats as weak losers that can't get anything done. I feel like you understimate how much people like "winning".

On July 18 2022 18:07 Silvanel wrote:
Not as much as they despise "not even trying".

On July 19 2022 01:16 NewSunshine wrote:
I think it certainly doesn't help move the needle for folks to get deeply involved in politics, when the prospect for Democratic voters is basically you get a better understanding of just how little they're accomplishing, and that's about it. Contrast that with the Right-wing crowd, their whole schtick has been that everything they do is keeping it non-political. They've literally convinced their voters that issues of healthcare and identity are "just politics", and that "politics" is some dirty word that denotes a whole host of things that are basically just frivolous, as opposed to the reality of many people navigating their very real lives together.

For the Right, keeping people disaffected and recalcitrant towards government is the whole point. For Democrats, it's the product of a process where people could be reached, but the people who would reach them see that the Democrats just aren't delivering anything to write home about. Why go to someone's door to try to sell them a product that you're not even sure works properly?

So I think there is a persistent issue the Democrats face, entirely of their own making, where their turnout is constantly depressed by some degree. Nearly every instance in my memory where a more active and progressive Democrat actually fights to get things done drives out support and turnout like fucking nobody's business, it's why Fetterman is gonna trash Oz for the Senate. But still they hang in there with their bullshit metrics like "electability", where they sabotage any chances of winning because they're afraid of losing. They're afraid of taking any risks or leaving any impression. They just don't get it yet.

On July 19 2022 12:21 mounteast0 wrote:
I think it might "worth considering" that what actually Biden administration want, not just what he said, may be they just want to be seen as doing something while not really interested in doing anything, especially regarding "progressive" issues.

I have hard time believing that the whole administration is completely idiotic / incompetent in pushing anything through. After all, those people are all "seasoned" / long time / experienced participant in the field, they don't rise to the top because they are totally incompetent. It is not like some kind of rookie that somehow overthrow the government but have no idea how governing works.

The conspiracy theorist in me think that Biden is not really want to push for "progressive" agenda, and he bank on the fact that voters on the left have no choice other than voting for Dem, even if the Dem don't do anything for them, "because" otherwise the life of those minority will be even shitter under Rep rule. May be this is the rationale behind leaning toward "centre" / "moderate"?

From my experience of observing my local election (not US election if anyone actually interested), the above strategy works for a while, after that, there will be enough voters get fed up that they will turn away, not voting or voting anyone else but them. I don't know enough of the US politics to determine if the same would happen, or if that would significantly affect the chance of Dem in election.

Predicting if not trying is a better strategy than not winning is a hard one. Since we don't have parallel universe / controlled experiment, the definite answer may not be known / concluded....

On July 19 2022 12:36 Kyadytim wrote:

The line of thinking I find most compelling is that the current Democratic party leadership, including most of its elected officials, lived through Reagan and the fundamental change in American politics from "the government exists to help the weak," to "the government is a problem getting in the way of the strong," that led to Clinton cutting welfare programs and calling it a win.

As a result they're traumatized, afraid of getting destroyed like that again and incapable of believing that progressive action will win instead of leading to another Reagan.

On July 19 2022 20:21 WombaT wrote:

I could see that dwelling in the psyche to degrees, for sure.

I think part of the issue is, they were also forged in temperament in a time where average Americans were much more closely aligned around various unifying pillars, be they institutions, or in ideology.

Of course, let’s not exaggerate there have been huge conflicts politically going back, the country wasn’t all linking hands and singing songs together.

If you come from a time where the centre of the country is relatively reasonable, open to the odd compromise, generally trusts mainstream news, well that keeps the door open to compromise and bipartisanship.

That’s patently not the case, but some seem to be approaching politics as if it is. Being able and willing to make deals is baked into Biden’s core, and indeed would be a strength if the political ground was primed for it. It’s like he and the Dems are bringing out their best WoL builds and wondering why they’re not working in LoTV. They may have been excellent for their time, but anyone more versed in the current game knows exactly why they’re not working

Speaking of people being unreasonable, here’s an interesting snapshot of perception on the Watergate scandal and Richard Nixon through time.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/09/25/how-the-watergate-crisis-eroded-public-support-for-richard-nixon/

As more information came to light, those thinking he should face censure and general disapproval climbed. Which is basically the opposite of the trend we’re seeing with the Jan 6th hearings.

People’s response to the pandemic would also indicate the growth of these schisms.

In terms of viable responses, if I could wave a magic wand and rebuild trust in mainstream centralist media that would be great. But I’ve no idea how one would do that, so I don’t blame the Dems for not knowing.

I think that realistically leaves pushing for the rough status quo but fighting considerably dirtier, or go ambitious and aspirational and hope to punch through and make gains.

On July 19 2022 23:27 Kyadytim wrote:
I think fighting considerably dirtier is also necessary for the second option. "They go low, we go high" ends up with Merrick Garland as attorney general instead of on the Supreme Court. Losing honorably is still losing.

On July 19 2022 23:27 Kyadytim wrote:
I think fighting considerably dirtier is also necessary for the second option. "They go low, we go high" ends up with Merrick Garland as attorney general instead of on the Supreme Court. Losing honorably is still losing.

On July 20 2022 05:44 JimmiC wrote:
What is the logic in being against Finland and Sweden joining NATO? Its 18 Reps, so I instantly assume its hur dur everyone says this is good so itd bad hurdur QAnon.