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On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise.
Theres noting to compromise over with Putin. He either starts ww3 or he doesn't. Hes the one that is trying to start a war.
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It isn't like we civilians in the US would be in danger before a whole ton of people were already killed in Eastern Europe. Let's not joke about our own deaths while millions of real people are actually in the crosshairs right now. If a massive conflict happens then I would worry about more waves of refugees too, to add to the many already fleeing conflicts all over the world. Add in covid weakened economies and there's huge potential suffering and new conflicts at stake here.
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On February 22 2022 09:04 plasmidghost wrote:
Well if WWIII does happen, it was nice knowing y'all
I knew all along why I had to play terran.
On a more srs note, gave me a chuckle to read in the newspapers 'Russia sends troops to eastern Ukraine' while you'd expect something a bit more dramatic after that build-up over weeks.
Overall I can't shake off the feeling they got baited into it and everyone's going to be like whatevs , not like they weren't Russian before around there.
Happy 22/2/2022 I guess.
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Russian Federation378 Posts
On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong.
You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision.
In this case we have:
1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world"
2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world"
I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol
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United States43985 Posts
Putin is a dictator with popularity as long as he can continue to sell a vision of strength. Russia isn’t prospering under his rule. Land grabs aren’t too surprising. They only benefit him though, Russians will be worse off.
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On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol
Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory.
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I wonder how sanctions will interact with gas prices. Are we one of those countries that has been getting lots of Russian gas in spite of Russia's behavior in recent years?
If so, and gas prices rise even higher because of this situation, Democrats are mega-fucked in 2022 and 2024 imo. And if they are, Russia can probably just take the majority of Ukraine, I don't see Republicans even using sanctions tbh.
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On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory.
If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind.
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On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind.
I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine.
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On February 22 2022 14:18 Zambrah wrote:
I wonder how sanctions will interact with gas prices. Are we one of those countries that has been getting lots of Russian gas in spite of Russia's behavior in recent years?
If so, and gas prices rise even higher because of this situation, Democrats are mega-fucked in 2022 and 2024 imo. And if they are, Russia can probably just take the majority of Ukraine, I don't see Republicans even using sanctions tbh.
The US is pretty well endowed with the natural gas it needs - that's more of a Europe/Asia problem. In the US, oil, and therefore gasoline, would be the bigger problem. Prices are definitely going to go up if supply takes a nosedive. That's kind of exactly why oil is $90+ now after all the world's oil producers started producing a whole lot less because of the mess that was 2020.
Not really fatal on its own, but inflation is already a big problem and more supply chain issues just make it that much worse. High prices "at the pump" is a big deal for Biden for a good reason.
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On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine.
Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above.
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On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above.
And countries bordering russia really want to join NATO to keep Russia from fucking with them. Putin is of the opinion that russia has the right to dictate everything their neighbours do, and if they don't do what he likes, he can invade and annex them. Some of the neighbours were smart enough to very quickly join NATO after the fall of the soviet union and are safe, the others now realize how big of a mistake they have made.
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United States43985 Posts
On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above.
NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too.
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On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision.
After 22 years in power, Putin *is* the game.
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On February 22 2022 15:31 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:
[quote]
True. But.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above. NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too.
The Department of Defense is supposedly about Defense but it is basically 100% about foreign wars. The wording is pretty irrelevant practically.
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On February 22 2022 17:27 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 15:31 KwarK wrote:On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about.
Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above. NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too. The Department of Defense is supposedly about Defense but it is basically 100% about foreign wars. The wording is pretty irrelevant practically.
NATO’s goal has never been to invade and annexe territories. It’s a purely defensive alliance meant to precisely contain Russia. The point of being in Nato is for countries like the Baltic States, Poland or hypothetically Ukrain not to be terrified that Russia could give them the Georgia treatment if they just felt like it.
What’s happening now is the proof that NATO is relevant, necessary, and needs to be extended. The age of empires is over in Europe. You don’t just send your tanks when a country wants to leave your sphere of influence.
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On February 22 2022 17:27 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 15:31 KwarK wrote:On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:
[quote]
I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about.
Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above. NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too. The Department of Defense is supposedly about Defense but it is basically 100% about foreign wars. The wording is pretty irrelevant practically.
You'd had a point if NATO was actually used for wars but it hasn't. Article 5 has only been triggered once as a response to 9/11. There's 0 interest in a war with Russia in Europe.
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On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:03 Sermokala wrote:On February 22 2022 09:00 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 08:44 JimmiC wrote:
It is actually really easy to point to the bad guy in this situation. It is Putin. True. But. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Disclaimer: i do not suppot any politician's vision. I don't support any politicians vision but I also don't think you should blame putin and biden doesn't know what he's talking about. Yeah that's not the neutral stance you think it is bud. I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above.
The point of contention is not Russia being threarened, it can blow up the entire planet. What’s at stake is wether or not a country can leave Russia’s sphere of influence. Russia wants neighbours it can submit into oblivion if they fall out of line. It’s done it times and times and times again and is doing it now. It considers Ukraine like it considered Georgia: a vassal falling out of line.
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On February 22 2022 17:36 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 17:27 gobbledydook wrote:On February 22 2022 15:31 KwarK wrote:On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2022 09:24 iFU.spx wrote:
[quote]
I didn't say that putin or biden doesn't know what they talkng about, they pretty much does. I said that they both can't find compromise. What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to. There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong. You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above. NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too. The Department of Defense is supposedly about Defense but it is basically 100% about foreign wars. The wording is pretty irrelevant practically. NATO’s goal has never been to invade and annexe territories. It’s a purely defensive alliance meant to precisely contain Russia. The point of being in Nato is for countries like the Baltic States, Poland or hypothetically Ukrain not to be terrified that Russia could give them the Georgia treatment if they just felt like it. What’s happening now is the proof that NATO is relevant, necessary, and needs to be extended. The age of empires is over in Europe. You don’t just send your tanks when a country wants to leave your sphere of influence. I would argue last night shows that you very much can send your tanks when a country wants to leave your sphere of influence.
Putin just did it.
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On February 22 2022 19:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2022 17:36 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 22 2022 17:27 gobbledydook wrote:On February 22 2022 15:31 KwarK wrote:On February 22 2022 14:53 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 14:41 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 22 2022 14:35 Jealous wrote:On February 22 2022 12:46 Grackaroni wrote:On February 22 2022 09:57 iFU.spx wrote:On February 22 2022 09:29 Gorsameth wrote:
[quote]What is there to compromise? One is invading their neighbour, the other doesn't want them to.
There is no 'compromise' when 1 party is clearly in the wrong.
You are trying to explain politics from single person view point. It doesn't work like that. You always have influencers who force those vision. In this case we have: 1. one politician is afraid of NATO be a threat to "russian world" 2. other one acting like he doesn't understand what (1) talking about or want NATO be closer as threat to "russian world" I am not argue which statement or whos right in this situation. I just wanna tell how i think Putin sees this situation as far as i understand it lol Putin is not afraid of NATO threatening Russia. Russia has the second largest nuclear arsenal in the world. It would be suicidal for NATO to do anything aggressive towards Russia, which Putin knows. This is just pretext for annexing territory. If there were dozens of military bases around my country, and I knew that in the past when my predecessors tried to set one up next to the owner of those military bases and it failed due to the hypocrisy of the now most-heavily funded military complex in the world ten times over, I would be a bit paranoid too. It may not be the most important element of the equation in this context, but it certainly exists and I don't see how more people don't see that. The abject lack of objectivity, whether due to patriotism or genuine propaganda that rivals that of Russia, has always boggled my mind. I fail to see what that has to do with what Russia is currently attempting to do to Ukraine. Ukraine joining NATO poses the threat of even greater and more encompassing foreign military presence on Russian borders, which has been a point of contention for Russia for decades, as described above. NATO is a defensive alliance. It can’t attack anyone. A NATO member could (and has such as France in Libya) but those examples show how the rest of NATO doesn’t get involved. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO. They should join too. The Department of Defense is supposedly about Defense but it is basically 100% about foreign wars. The wording is pretty irrelevant practically. NATO’s goal has never been to invade and annexe territories. It’s a purely defensive alliance meant to precisely contain Russia. The point of being in Nato is for countries like the Baltic States, Poland or hypothetically Ukrain not to be terrified that Russia could give them the Georgia treatment if they just felt like it. What’s happening now is the proof that NATO is relevant, necessary, and needs to be extended. The age of empires is over in Europe. You don’t just send your tanks when a country wants to leave your sphere of influence. I would argue last night shows that you very much can send your tanks when a country wants to leave your sphere of influence. Putin just did it.
He had 8 years to prepare his false flag, move population into ukraine and gave them ukrainian passports. Once again, through inaction, Europe tacitly approved his acts of agression and unsurprisingly, he's doing it again.
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EPT
