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Northern Ireland25460 Posts
Joe Rogan would be quite good at chinwagging and getting folks engaged in conversations at a party or a bar. Not uniquely but I find he has a tendency to go down whatever path his conversational partner is going down a bit uncritically.
The problem is he’s not some bloke in a bar, he’s basically got the biggest general talk/interview show on the planet.
So both vetting guests as well as calling them on some of what they say should become a concern.
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I'm having a hard time with the idea that "civilizations collapse when its people obsess over gender" is a loose translation of "trans people are trying to destroy Western civilization". Seems to be pretty much exactly what JR is trying to say by having guests on who repeat it for him.
If you're tracing back to the collapse of Greco-Roman society, where are you tracing from, perhaps?
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On February 03 2022 09:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 03 2022 07:45 KwarK wrote:On February 03 2022 06:32 RenSC2 wrote:On February 03 2022 06:28 brian wrote:
those aren’t appreciably different from where i’m sitting. It's the difference between saying "I don't want this" and "you can't have it either". On February 03 2022 06:32 IyMoon1 wrote:On February 03 2022 06:01 RenSC2 wrote:On February 03 2022 04:10 Gorsameth wrote:On February 03 2022 04:09 Doc.Rivers wrote:
My understanding of cancelation is that it just doesn't include politicians. The voters make the choice of which politician they want, so they act as a collective and neutral decision maker on who should represent them in office (probably taking many things into account). A cancelation is when someone says something controversial and then gets summarily and immediately fired from their (probably private sector) job. which is also a weird thing for Conservatives to be against. They preach about how the market should be free. 'Cancel culture' is the free market expressing itself that it doesn't accept certain views. but no, when its them getting fired the free market is bad. No, cancel culture relies on fear of perceived potential losses to circumvent actual market forces. If the market decided that Joe Rogan was an idiot not worth listening to and he lost his market share and was no longer worth what he was being paid so he got fired, that would be the free market working. If instead a bunch of people threaten to boycott Spotify if he’s not removed, they are using fear rather than actual market forces to try to cancel him. Those are just the same thing but before the follow through Except that it is a relatively small group purporting to speak for a large group. Their actual direct actions are almost negligible, but by being extremely loud, they can scare companies into cancelling people anyways. They're not saying "I don't want you to be able to listen to Joe Rogan", they're saying "I don't want to support Spotify if it platforms Joe Rogan". Hopefully you can understand the difference. They're not controlling what anyone else does, they're exercising their natural rights to decline to do business with an entity that doesn't support their values. An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values. Since when has Spotify been a public forum? I don't see how people saying they don't want to use a platform that supports an individual is any different from them saying that they don't want to go to a church that has a pastor they disagree with. Individual choice couldn't be any more American.
People are certainly free to engage in that individual choice but they should drop the misconception that they're engaged in a noble cause. In this digital era where it's easy to assemble pitchfork mobs and get people removed from our new forums of public discourse, the express purpose is to silence particular viewpoints (which never seems to get admitted). So in some very general sense they're engaged in "individual choice," but they're also trying to silence/suppress ideas, even though our forums of public discourse should be open and free.
As in yesteryear when government censorship was the obstacle to free discourse, the attempts to suppress ideas will probably only backfire anyway. For example I'd imagine Rogan has gotten more publicity and listeners lately. Special attention gets called to the ideas people are trying to suppress, which just drives those inclined to entertain those ideas further into their views.
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Northern Ireland25460 Posts
On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 03 2022 07:45 KwarK wrote:On February 03 2022 06:32 RenSC2 wrote:On February 03 2022 06:28 brian wrote:
those aren’t appreciably different from where i’m sitting. It's the difference between saying "I don't want this" and "you can't have it either". On February 03 2022 06:32 IyMoon1 wrote:
[quote]
Those are just the same thing but before the follow through Except that it is a relatively small group purporting to speak for a large group. Their actual direct actions are almost negligible, but by being extremely loud, they can scare companies into cancelling people anyways. They're not saying "I don't want you to be able to listen to Joe Rogan", they're saying "I don't want to support Spotify if it platforms Joe Rogan". Hopefully you can understand the difference. They're not controlling what anyone else does, they're exercising their natural rights to decline to do business with an entity that doesn't support their values. An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values. Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization"
Considering Peterson built an entire second career out of manufacturing outrage over ‘persecution’ over a trans bill, hosted on the likes of Rogan and his whole shtick is this is cultural Marxism and Marxism is a civilisational threat, I don’t think it’s a particular stretch.
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On February 03 2022 11:32 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 03 2022 07:45 KwarK wrote:On February 03 2022 06:32 RenSC2 wrote:
[quote]
It's the difference between saying "I don't want this" and "you can't have it either".
[quote]
Except that it is a relatively small group purporting to speak for a large group. Their actual direct actions are almost negligible, but by being extremely loud, they can scare companies into cancelling people anyways. They're not saying "I don't want you to be able to listen to Joe Rogan", they're saying "I don't want to support Spotify if it platforms Joe Rogan". Hopefully you can understand the difference. They're not controlling what anyone else does, they're exercising their natural rights to decline to do business with an entity that doesn't support their values. An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values. Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization" Think of it this way. Rogan brings on guests like Peterson who talk about how great Western civilization is, and then say that trans people are the reason Western society is collapsing since it's talking about gender topics. We're talking about gender because we're trying to survive and thrive in society. Since Rogan worships Western civilization, it's implied that we're evil because we're destroying what he believes in.
It's obvious you didn't listen to a second of the podcast. You don't get to just invent narratives in your head based on what you've read on a biased website and then just declare it's hate speech.
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On February 03 2022 11:47 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 11:32 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:On February 03 2022 07:45 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
They're not saying "I don't want you to be able to listen to Joe Rogan", they're saying "I don't want to support Spotify if it platforms Joe Rogan". Hopefully you can understand the difference. They're not controlling what anyone else does, they're exercising their natural rights to decline to do business with an entity that doesn't support their values. An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values. Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization" Think of it this way. Rogan brings on guests like Peterson who talk about how great Western civilization is, and then say that trans people are the reason Western society is collapsing since it's talking about gender topics. We're talking about gender because we're trying to survive and thrive in society. Since Rogan worships Western civilization, it's implied that we're evil because we're destroying what he believes in. It's obvious you didn't listen to a second of the podcast. You don't get to just invent narratives in your head based on what you've read on a biased website and then just declare it's hate speech.
Alright asshole, you want to play that game? Here, tell me EXACTLY how I invented this narrative. It's their exact words. Don't come into here attempting to smear me when you're the piece of shit that didn't listen to it.
+ Show Spoiler +JOE ROGAN (HOST): What do you think it means when someone is so attracted to the idea that they were born in the wrong body -- it means so much, they are so compelled that they are willing to go through surgery to change it?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): God, it means all sorts of things. I knew a kid in Toronto who was on the autistic spectrum, and a lot of the people who are manifesting serious issues with gender identity are on the autism spectrum --
ROGAN: This is like Abigail Shrier’s work and rapid onset gender dysphoria amongst women.
PETERSON: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a different thing, the rapid onset. Part of the reason I objected to Bill C-16 to begin with was because I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundametal sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that, because I knew the literature on sociological contagion. And it stretches back like 500 years that literature -- 300 years.
...
And so psychological contagions are very common. And so one of them, for example, was the satanic ritual abuse accusations that emerged in daycares in the 1980s. And that was a consequence of women going into the workforce en masse, leaving their children with strangers and starting to have pathological fantasies about it, especially if they were borderline schizophrenic. And those fantasies propagated into the population.
…
ROGAN: So you think that a lot of what’s going on with people that want to change gender is creativity?
PETERSON: No, I don’t think so.
ROGAN: So what do you --
PETERSON: I know so.
ROGAN: You know so.
PETERSON: Yeah, but that's not all of it, but that's definitely part of it.
ROGAN: But there are for sure a lot of people that transition -- and there has been work on this that shows that if they didn't transition, they wanted to transition at one point in time and then they eventually wound up becoming gay men. This is males to females, right?
JOE ROGAN (HOST): I'm sure you're familiar with Douglas Murray’s work?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): Yes. And Murray -- who’s very funny, who I like very much, and who’s one of the most courageous people I’ve ever met.
ROGAN: Yeah, he’s brilliant. And he had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks.
PETERSON: Yeah, Camille Paglia has made much of that. I think probably it's not so much an obsession with gender, it’s a disintegration of categories as a precursor -- like so it’s a marker for -- if categories just dissolve, especially fundamental ones, the culture is dissolving because the culture is a structure of category. That’s what it is. So in fact culture is a structure of category that we all share, so we see things the same way, so that’s why we can talk. I mean, not exactly the same way, because then we would have nothing to talk about, but roughly speaking, we have a bedrock of agreement. That’s the Bible, by the way. source
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On February 03 2022 12:18 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 11:47 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:32 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:
[quote]
An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values.
Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization" Think of it this way. Rogan brings on guests like Peterson who talk about how great Western civilization is, and then say that trans people are the reason Western society is collapsing since it's talking about gender topics. We're talking about gender because we're trying to survive and thrive in society. Since Rogan worships Western civilization, it's implied that we're evil because we're destroying what he believes in. It's obvious you didn't listen to a second of the podcast. You don't get to just invent narratives in your head based on what you've read on a biased website and then just declare it's hate speech. Alright asshole, you want to play that game? Here, tell me EXACTLY how I invented this narrative. It's their exact words. Don't come into here attempting to smear me when you're the piece of shit that didn't listen to it. + Show Spoiler +JOE ROGAN (HOST): What do you think it means when someone is so attracted to the idea that they were born in the wrong body -- it means so much, they are so compelled that they are willing to go through surgery to change it?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): God, it means all sorts of things. I knew a kid in Toronto who was on the autistic spectrum, and a lot of the people who are manifesting serious issues with gender identity are on the autism spectrum --
ROGAN: This is like Abigail Shrier’s work and rapid onset gender dysphoria amongst women.
PETERSON: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a different thing, the rapid onset. Part of the reason I objected to Bill C-16 to begin with was because I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundametal sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that, because I knew the literature on sociological contagion. And it stretches back like 500 years that literature -- 300 years.
...
And so psychological contagions are very common. And so one of them, for example, was the satanic ritual abuse accusations that emerged in daycares in the 1980s. And that was a consequence of women going into the workforce en masse, leaving their children with strangers and starting to have pathological fantasies about it, especially if they were borderline schizophrenic. And those fantasies propagated into the population.
…
ROGAN: So you think that a lot of what’s going on with people that want to change gender is creativity?
PETERSON: No, I don’t think so.
ROGAN: So what do you --
PETERSON: I know so.
ROGAN: You know so.
PETERSON: Yeah, but that's not all of it, but that's definitely part of it.
ROGAN: But there are for sure a lot of people that transition -- and there has been work on this that shows that if they didn't transition, they wanted to transition at one point in time and then they eventually wound up becoming gay men. This is males to females, right?
JOE ROGAN (HOST): I'm sure you're familiar with Douglas Murray’s work?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): Yes. And Murray -- who’s very funny, who I like very much, and who’s one of the most courageous people I’ve ever met.
ROGAN: Yeah, he’s brilliant. And he had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks.
PETERSON: Yeah, Camille Paglia has made much of that. I think probably it's not so much an obsession with gender, it’s a disintegration of categories as a precursor -- like so it’s a marker for -- if categories just dissolve, especially fundamental ones, the culture is dissolving because the culture is a structure of category. That’s what it is. So in fact culture is a structure of category that we all share, so we see things the same way, so that’s why we can talk. I mean, not exactly the same way, because then we would have nothing to talk about, but roughly speaking, we have a bedrock of agreement. That’s the Bible, by the way. source
I'm thinking you're mistaking Social Contagion for claims of it being a disease. It sounded like your Advocate article also doesn't recognize the difference. Social Contagion can actually be considered a good thing at times... although I don't think JP believes that.
Peterson also disagrees that the obsession with gender is a cause of civilization collapse. He pushed back on Rogan there. Instead, he thinks the inability for society to agree on basic definitions (or as he calls it, "structure") is problematic. Agreement of "structure" is the starting point for conversations.
It's almost as if they're holding a conversation and going back and forth a bit trying to understand a topic better in a respectful manner.
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On February 03 2022 12:35 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 12:18 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 11:47 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:32 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:
[quote]
Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization" Think of it this way. Rogan brings on guests like Peterson who talk about how great Western civilization is, and then say that trans people are the reason Western society is collapsing since it's talking about gender topics. We're talking about gender because we're trying to survive and thrive in society. Since Rogan worships Western civilization, it's implied that we're evil because we're destroying what he believes in. It's obvious you didn't listen to a second of the podcast. You don't get to just invent narratives in your head based on what you've read on a biased website and then just declare it's hate speech. Alright asshole, you want to play that game? Here, tell me EXACTLY how I invented this narrative. It's their exact words. Don't come into here attempting to smear me when you're the piece of shit that didn't listen to it. + Show Spoiler +JOE ROGAN (HOST): What do you think it means when someone is so attracted to the idea that they were born in the wrong body -- it means so much, they are so compelled that they are willing to go through surgery to change it?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): God, it means all sorts of things. I knew a kid in Toronto who was on the autistic spectrum, and a lot of the people who are manifesting serious issues with gender identity are on the autism spectrum --
ROGAN: This is like Abigail Shrier’s work and rapid onset gender dysphoria amongst women.
PETERSON: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a different thing, the rapid onset. Part of the reason I objected to Bill C-16 to begin with was because I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundametal sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that, because I knew the literature on sociological contagion. And it stretches back like 500 years that literature -- 300 years.
...
And so psychological contagions are very common. And so one of them, for example, was the satanic ritual abuse accusations that emerged in daycares in the 1980s. And that was a consequence of women going into the workforce en masse, leaving their children with strangers and starting to have pathological fantasies about it, especially if they were borderline schizophrenic. And those fantasies propagated into the population.
…
ROGAN: So you think that a lot of what’s going on with people that want to change gender is creativity?
PETERSON: No, I don’t think so.
ROGAN: So what do you --
PETERSON: I know so.
ROGAN: You know so.
PETERSON: Yeah, but that's not all of it, but that's definitely part of it.
ROGAN: But there are for sure a lot of people that transition -- and there has been work on this that shows that if they didn't transition, they wanted to transition at one point in time and then they eventually wound up becoming gay men. This is males to females, right?
JOE ROGAN (HOST): I'm sure you're familiar with Douglas Murray’s work?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): Yes. And Murray -- who’s very funny, who I like very much, and who’s one of the most courageous people I’ve ever met.
ROGAN: Yeah, he’s brilliant. And he had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks.
PETERSON: Yeah, Camille Paglia has made much of that. I think probably it's not so much an obsession with gender, it’s a disintegration of categories as a precursor -- like so it’s a marker for -- if categories just dissolve, especially fundamental ones, the culture is dissolving because the culture is a structure of category. That’s what it is. So in fact culture is a structure of category that we all share, so we see things the same way, so that’s why we can talk. I mean, not exactly the same way, because then we would have nothing to talk about, but roughly speaking, we have a bedrock of agreement. That’s the Bible, by the way. source I'm thinking you're mistaking Social Contagion for claims of it being a disease. It sounded like your Advocate article also doesn't recognize the difference. Social Contagion can actually be considered a good thing at times... although I don't think JP believes that. Peterson also disagrees that the obsession with gender is a cause of civilization collapse. He pushed back on Rogan there. Instead, he thinks the inability for society to agree on basic definitions (or as he calls it, "structure") is problematic. Agreement of "structure" is the starting point for conversations. It's almost as if they're holding a conversation and going back and forth a bit trying to understand a topic better in a respectful manner.
That's a lie that it's a respectful manner. Every single point they mentioned about trans people is a lie. They're not trying to understand things, they're repeating claims they have been disproven by many people, with links in the articles I linked to
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Northern Ireland25460 Posts
We are dealing with Jordan ‘That’s Not What I MeantTM’ Peterson here, which is worth bearing in mind.
It’s a bit rich for him to be so concerned with agreed basic structural definitions when despite talking endlessly about it he doesn’t seem to have a working understanding of Marxism.
I don’t think there’s much inherently problematic with much of what I experienced with Rogan back in the day, it’s very guest dependent and for all I know he could have some academic gender theorist on the next week or whatever.
There can be the cumulative opinion equivalent of Chinese water torture at play though, tons of relatively benign/doesn’t cross a line discourse on a topic can have a larger aggregative one.
Can’t speak to Rogan as I stopped dipping in when he went to Spotify which I don’t use.
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I'm very stressed out and really shouldn't be arguing and insulting people, especiallywhen this thread is for politics and Rogan isn't a politician. My apologies for that.
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I think going after Rogan for covid misinformation isn't really the right way to do it though.
You would also surely have to go after major news stations who have peddled covid misinformation too. Its just the kind of misinformation that people are ok with others believing.
Why wasn't Rachel Maddow cancelled? She outright lied about the vaccine and what it can and can't do "We now know that the vaccine works well enough that the virus stops with every vaccinated person."
That's covid misinformation, of exactly the type Rogan is being attacked for.
I'm not defending his record on issues such as the trans issue, where the vast, vast majority of his guests are against the existence of trans people (it comes up fairly regularly on his podcast i think, or at least it used to a few years ago when i watched it). I think for someone who says all views are welcome, he certainly prioritizes certain types of opinions.
There's a discussion to be had there, but when it comes to covid misinformation hypocrisy is absolutely everywhere. A while ago the idea that covid came from a lab was seen as the worst kind of racist covid misinformation, peddled only by conspiracy theorists and was too dangerous for people to believe. Until it wasn't any more.
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On February 03 2022 11:17 gobbledydook wrote:
Joe Rogan is definitely an asshole but you know you aren't forced to listen to him right? Just don't listen to him if you are offended.
His message reaches a huge audience and he is extremely influential on a lot of impressionable young people. Choosing not to listen to him does not prevent the damage he does.
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Isn't Rogan also in trouble over climate change misinformation currently? I see it less as a single misstep of his and more of his being a steady, dribbling rivulet of shit.
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On February 03 2022 12:18 plasmidghost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 11:47 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:32 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 11:24 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 11:11 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 10:39 BlackJack wrote:On February 03 2022 10:05 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 09:51 Nick_54 wrote:On February 03 2022 08:36 plasmidghost wrote:On February 03 2022 08:20 Doc.Rivers wrote:
[quote]
An interesting claim to make when the express goal is to remove Rogan from the public discourse by removing him from our public forums. The ultimate goal is to remove specific ideas from the public discourse, and that goal is very much antithetical to core American values.
Joe Rogan should be deplatformed and removed from the public discourse. Rogan and his guests tell tens of millions of people that I'm evil and seeking to destroy Western civilization just for being trans, which leads to hate crimes and the GOP legislating against us to strip away what rights we do have and make it so that we suffer and die. It will be a good day when no one listens to him or people like him anymore. What guest/episode was this. I knew some of his stuff was out there, but wow this is sick if true. G-d I wish it was just one episode. The most recent example was with Jordan B. Peterson. www.advocate.comOn his January 25 episode, Rogan hosted Jordan Peterson, a retired Canadian psychology professor turned right-wing provocateur who posited that being trans is both a “sociological contagion” and similar to the now-debunked “satanic panic” of the 1980s.
When Rogan steered the discussion to the subject of transgender people, Peterson explained his opposition to Canadian federal Bill C-16, which amended the country’s human rights protections to include gender identity. “I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundamental sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that because I knew the literature on sociological contagion,” Peterson said.
In response, Rogan said it was similar to the work of anti-trans author Abigail Shrier, who also claimed that trans people are a contagion, and who had previously appeared on his podcast. In her work, Shrier discusses the concept of “rapid-onset gender dysphoria,” which comes from a since-corrected study by Brown University researcher Dr. Lisa Littman that initially suggested trans youth began identifying that way due to “social and peer contagion.” The study was deeply flawed, however, as it was conducted by surveying the parents of the trans youth, who had visited anti-trans websites, rather than the trans youths themselves. Sorry, where specifically in that article does it mention that Joe Rogan says trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization? Just realized I didn't copy the last paragraph Later in his conversation with Peterson, Rogan suggested that the acceptance of trans people is a sign of society collapsing, citing the work of right-wing British author and political commentator Douglas Murray, who claims that trans acceptance will someday be seen as “a late-empire, a bad sign of things falling apart” — an assertion Rogan has frequently repeated on his show. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” Rogan said on his January 25 episode. “[Murray] had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks,” That's a pretty loose translation of "trans people are evil and seeking to destroy Western Civilization" Think of it this way. Rogan brings on guests like Peterson who talk about how great Western civilization is, and then say that trans people are the reason Western society is collapsing since it's talking about gender topics. We're talking about gender because we're trying to survive and thrive in society. Since Rogan worships Western civilization, it's implied that we're evil because we're destroying what he believes in. It's obvious you didn't listen to a second of the podcast. You don't get to just invent narratives in your head based on what you've read on a biased website and then just declare it's hate speech. Alright asshole, you want to play that game? Here, tell me EXACTLY how I invented this narrative. It's their exact words. Don't come into here attempting to smear me when you're the piece of shit that didn't listen to it. + Show Spoiler +JOE ROGAN (HOST): What do you think it means when someone is so attracted to the idea that they were born in the wrong body -- it means so much, they are so compelled that they are willing to go through surgery to change it?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): God, it means all sorts of things. I knew a kid in Toronto who was on the autistic spectrum, and a lot of the people who are manifesting serious issues with gender identity are on the autism spectrum --
ROGAN: This is like Abigail Shrier’s work and rapid onset gender dysphoria amongst women.
PETERSON: Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s a different thing, the rapid onset. Part of the reason I objected to Bill C-16 to begin with was because I knew full well as a clinician that as soon as we messed with fundametal sex categories and changed the terminology, we would fatally confuse thousand of young girls. I knew that, because I knew the literature on sociological contagion. And it stretches back like 500 years that literature -- 300 years.
...
And so psychological contagions are very common. And so one of them, for example, was the satanic ritual abuse accusations that emerged in daycares in the 1980s. And that was a consequence of women going into the workforce en masse, leaving their children with strangers and starting to have pathological fantasies about it, especially if they were borderline schizophrenic. And those fantasies propagated into the population.
…
ROGAN: So you think that a lot of what’s going on with people that want to change gender is creativity?
PETERSON: No, I don’t think so.
ROGAN: So what do you --
PETERSON: I know so.
ROGAN: You know so.
PETERSON: Yeah, but that's not all of it, but that's definitely part of it.
ROGAN: But there are for sure a lot of people that transition -- and there has been work on this that shows that if they didn't transition, they wanted to transition at one point in time and then they eventually wound up becoming gay men. This is males to females, right?
JOE ROGAN (HOST): I'm sure you're familiar with Douglas Murray’s work?
JORDAN PETERSON (AUTHOR): Yes. And Murray -- who’s very funny, who I like very much, and who’s one of the most courageous people I’ve ever met.
ROGAN: Yeah, he’s brilliant. And he had an amazing point about civilizations collapsing, and that when they start collapsing they become obsessed with gender. And he was saying that you could trace it back to the ancient Romans, the Greeks.
PETERSON: Yeah, Camille Paglia has made much of that. I think probably it's not so much an obsession with gender, it’s a disintegration of categories as a precursor -- like so it’s a marker for -- if categories just dissolve, especially fundamental ones, the culture is dissolving because the culture is a structure of category. That’s what it is. So in fact culture is a structure of category that we all share, so we see things the same way, so that’s why we can talk. I mean, not exactly the same way, because then we would have nothing to talk about, but roughly speaking, we have a bedrock of agreement. That’s the Bible, by the way. source
Well I guess he did call you evil there. I apologize.
Fyi this is a 4+ hour long podcast and they talked about transgenderism for maybe 3 minutes? Definitely not a false narrative to suggest that Rogan brought Peterson on to talk about how great western society is and how trans people are destroying it. So I apologize again.
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On February 03 2022 13:24 Starlightsun wrote:
Isn't Rogan also in trouble over climate change misinformation currently? I see it less as a single misstep of his and more of his being a steady, dribbling rivulet of shit.
The BBC had climate change deniers on the channel until very recently, due to their rules about balance. Why are we going after Rogan and not the BBC, who have just as large an audience?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/08/bbc-climate-change-deniers-fossil-fuel-broadcasters
The sad fact is that its just easier to try and shut down an individual such as Rogan than it is to go after major news stations, so people settle for that. It leads to warped view of who/what is or isn't dangerous.
Abigail Thorn (philosophy tube) recently tweeted about this, about how easy it is to cancel youtube personalities compared to journalists within the industry. Many of those denied AIDS in 80s and are still here in powerful positions influencing millions of people and everyone is silent about their lies, but one bad video on youtube or one misjudged tweet from a youtuber can end their career, and the media establishment is right there with the mob trying to make a story out of it.
Obviously Rogan sits somewhere in between the two, given he has access to huge resources, but the point still stands.
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On February 03 2022 12:50 WombaT wrote:
We are dealing with Jordan ‘That’s Not What I MeantTM’ Peterson here, which is worth bearing in mind.
It’s a bit rich for him to be so concerned with agreed basic structural definitions when despite talking endlessly about it he doesn’t seem to have a working understanding of Marxism.
I don’t think there’s much inherently problematic with much of what I experienced with Rogan back in the day, it’s very guest dependent and for all I know he could have some academic gender theorist on the next week or whatever.
There can be the cumulative opinion equivalent of Chinese water torture at play though, tons of relatively benign/doesn’t cross a line discourse on a topic can have a larger aggregative one.
Can’t speak to Rogan as I stopped dipping in when he went to Spotify which I don’t use.
Hey. Hey. Hold up buddy. Jordan did read The Communist Manifesto once, which is the only thing the German philosopher Marx wrote. And he also Slammed poor Zizek in that debate! Zizek just couldn't handle the way by which Jordan crafted his words!
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United States42776 Posts
On February 03 2022 13:32 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 13:24 Starlightsun wrote:
Isn't Rogan also in trouble over climate change misinformation currently? I see it less as a single misstep of his and more of his being a steady, dribbling rivulet of shit. The BBC had climate change deniers on the channel until very recently, due to their rules about balance. Why are we going after Rogan and not the BBC, who have just as large an audience? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/08/bbc-climate-change-deniers-fossil-fuel-broadcastersThe sad fact is that its just easier to try and shut down an individual such as Rogan than it is to go after major news stations, so people settle for that. It leads to warped view of who/what is or isn't dangerous. Abigail Thorn (philosophy tube) recently tweeted about this, about how easy it is to cancel youtube personalities compared to journalists within the industry. Many of those denied AIDS in 80s and are still here in powerful positions influencing millions of people and everyone is silent about their lies, but one bad video on youtube or one misjudged tweet from a youtuber can end their career, and the media establishment is right there with the mob trying to make a story out of it. Obviously Rogan sits somewhere in between the two, given he has access to huge resources, but the point still stands.
People did go after the BBC? This whataboutism is weird. Not only can people be upset about two things at once, they were, and they attacked the BBC for it and it was fixed.
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On February 03 2022 13:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 13:32 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 03 2022 13:24 Starlightsun wrote:
Isn't Rogan also in trouble over climate change misinformation currently? I see it less as a single misstep of his and more of his being a steady, dribbling rivulet of shit. The BBC had climate change deniers on the channel until very recently, due to their rules about balance. Why are we going after Rogan and not the BBC, who have just as large an audience? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/08/bbc-climate-change-deniers-fossil-fuel-broadcastersThe sad fact is that its just easier to try and shut down an individual such as Rogan than it is to go after major news stations, so people settle for that. It leads to warped view of who/what is or isn't dangerous. Abigail Thorn (philosophy tube) recently tweeted about this, about how easy it is to cancel youtube personalities compared to journalists within the industry. Many of those denied AIDS in 80s and are still here in powerful positions influencing millions of people and everyone is silent about their lies, but one bad video on youtube or one misjudged tweet from a youtuber can end their career, and the media establishment is right there with the mob trying to make a story out of it. Obviously Rogan sits somewhere in between the two, given he has access to huge resources, but the point still stands. People did go after the BBC? This whataboutism is weird. Not only can people be upset about two things at once, they were, and they attacked the BBC for it and it was fixed.
Yes, they fixed after 20 years lol. Shall we give Joe Rogan 20 years to fix his misinformation problem and then try and take him off Spotify? In that time they weren't threatened with being taken off the air because of it. No-one called the BBC dangerous peddlers of misinformation. The specific quality of the 'attack' (I would call it criticism in this case, rather than an attack) was very different.
You can call it whataboutism if you want. I'm trying to make a point about how putting a nice official watermark in the corner of a screen dramatically changes how people interact with misinformation.
edit: I'd also like to point out that the BBC 'fixed' their climate change issue in hindsight, once it became completely obvious that denying climate change required ignoring all of the facts about the issue. Alot of information about covid is fluid, and genuinely disputed, including some that is officially labelled misinformation.
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Northern Ireland25460 Posts
On February 03 2022 13:43 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2022 13:40 KwarK wrote:On February 03 2022 13:32 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 03 2022 13:24 Starlightsun wrote:
Isn't Rogan also in trouble over climate change misinformation currently? I see it less as a single misstep of his and more of his being a steady, dribbling rivulet of shit. The BBC had climate change deniers on the channel until very recently, due to their rules about balance. Why are we going after Rogan and not the BBC, who have just as large an audience? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/08/bbc-climate-change-deniers-fossil-fuel-broadcastersThe sad fact is that its just easier to try and shut down an individual such as Rogan than it is to go after major news stations, so people settle for that. It leads to warped view of who/what is or isn't dangerous. Abigail Thorn (philosophy tube) recently tweeted about this, about how easy it is to cancel youtube personalities compared to journalists within the industry. Many of those denied AIDS in 80s and are still here in powerful positions influencing millions of people and everyone is silent about their lies, but one bad video on youtube or one misjudged tweet from a youtuber can end their career, and the media establishment is right there with the mob trying to make a story out of it. Obviously Rogan sits somewhere in between the two, given he has access to huge resources, but the point still stands. People did go after the BBC? This whataboutism is weird. Not only can people be upset about two things at once, they were, and they attacked the BBC for it and it was fixed. Yes, they fixed after 20 years lol. Shall we give Joe Rogan 20 years to fix his misinformation problem and then try and take him off Spotify? In that time they weren't threatened with being taken off the air because of it. No-one called the BBC dangerous peddlers of misinformation. The specific quality of the 'attack' (I would call it criticism in this case, rather than an attack) was very different. You can call it whataboutism if you want. I'm trying to make a point about how putting a nice official watermark in the corner of a screen dramatically changes how people interact with misinformation. edit: I'd also like to point out that the BBC 'fixed' their climate change issue in hindsight, once it became completely obvious that denying climate change required ignoring all of the facts about the issue. Alot of information about covid is fluid, and genuinely disputed, including some that is officially labelled misinformation.
Have you read like, any comment thread on a topic about the BBC ever? They are perpetually slammed on the daily on every conceivable issue by somebody. And are a pretty giant, sprawling institution encompassing many people with vastly different views.
The nebulous ‘mainstream media’ is a convenient, constant piñata, having seen a glimpse of people untethered from it, it’s not pretty. Who does the vast, majority of actual journalism and who funds it?
I have no particular desire to ‘cancel’ Rogan, nor watermark his content.
He could avoid the Covid topic if it’s out of his wheelhouse (as it is mine) to actually vet claims as a layman. He could, rather than have a singular expert on, he could have two with differing perspectives, so they can challenge each other as peers.
He could, if he gets something wrong, or something has changed in the interim take a minute before the show really starts to say ‘hey folks look I said this last week, or my guest did and it’s wrong, I don’t want to be telling you guys stuff that might be bullshit’
There are a million and one more optimal solutions between Spotify kicking Rogan to the kerb and the alternative of ‘despite an audience of millions I can say whatever I want with no repercussions’.
There’s a lot of talent on new/independent media, Abigail Thorn among them (need to check that actually I missed that one), but they operate in a field where they’re self-employed and live or die by their audience. The flip side is basic journalistic rigour is entirely optional.
But we’re in the quandary where a growing proportion of people get their news from platforms that ‘aren’t platforms’ and current affairs commentators who aren’t treated as such either.
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Canada11354 Posts
On February 03 2022 06:28 brian wrote:
those aren’t appreciably different from where i’m sitting.
I think it definitely is different.
Typically, you have people that were never part of the target audience trying to butt in and take it away from people who are liking it.
To use and older example- target audience really loves D&D and buys lots of rule books, models, and dice. If it was just market forces at work, as D&D grows less popular, then less and less games are sold until the company folds or they create a new game or two.
Instead you have the cancel crowd: people that have never played the game and never intend to because they think D&D is witchcraft. And because they think it's harmful for the rest of society, they try and make sure no one else plays it either. They try and get it pulled from every store and brand anyone who plays it a Satanist. The market didn't dry up; it's being artificially suppressed by the mob.
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EPT
