EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3131
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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StalkerTL
212 Posts
On April 01 2021 00:51 Silvanel wrote: Yeah, thats what i meant. She is 17, so she can consent to sex and the age of the partner doesnt really matter that much (as long as he is also above the age of consent). But she is also a minor and i found very troubling that someone had paid her for sex. I would also found very troubling if 50 year old father paid her to to have sex with his 19 year old son. To clarify: i think that if society thinks she is mature enough to chose her sexual partner then she is mature enough to choose another 17 year old or 40 year old is she so chooses. Its up to her. The problem isn’t his claim that he had some fun with a legal aged person. He could have been in a Sugar Daddy relationship, that’s on him and people of legal age can consent even how he’s still dealing with a minor in this case and I don’t need to say the problems with this. The problem is that his friend, Joel Greenberg, is tied up in a sex trafficking case of a girl between the age of 14-17 and his comments on Tucker really do not pass the smell test. Also need to remind the guy was the lone vote against an anti-human trafficking bill. He says 17, at best the guy just really likes high school girls based on his social media comments and interactions and waits till they are of legal age. That’s the best case scenario since he did his best job of self implicating himself on Tucker and tried to get Tucker on his side by saying he did similar things and this is a Biden DoJ witch hunt. The worst case scenario is much worse. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8760 Posts
and yeah, since he announced the thing with him living with like a 17 year old cuban a while ago - not suspicious at all!especially in a family values party...- something insane and/or horrible was bound to come out sooner or later. | ||
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Slydie
1987 Posts
I could not care less who they sleep with, where they go on holiday or if someone suspects them of some minor crime. I wish they could be judged as professionals, every action they do as such is already public. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46217 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:13 Slydie wrote: I seriously think a world where nobody cared about the private and sex life of politicians would be a better one. I could not care less who they sleep with, where they go on holiday or if someone suspects them of some minor crime. I wish they could be judged as professionals, every action they do as such is already public. Sure, but if they're committing crimes, I'd expect politicians to at least be held to the same standard - if not a higher one - than their constituents. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:13 Slydie wrote: I seriously think a world where nobody cared about the private and sex life of politicians would be a better one. I could not care less who they sleep with, where they go on holiday or if someone suspects them of some minor crime. I wish they could be judged as professionals, every action they do as such is already public. If she was 17 and he was 30, he’s a dirt bag regardless. I don’t care if a politician hires a prostitute if he’s not married. The situation changes when the prostitute is under age. Or even just dating a “consenting” 17 year old as a 30 year old, you’re a a bad guy. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46217 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:23 Mohdoo wrote: If she was 17 and he was 30, he’s a dirt bag regardless. I don’t care if a politician hires a prostitute if he’s not married. The situation changes when the prostitute is under age. Or even just dating a “consenting” 17 year old as a 30 year old, you’re a a bad guy. Also, some states take into account a variety of other factors in terms of establishing whether or not a sexual relationship between two individuals is above board... not just the age of consent, but sometimes also how close the two individuals are in age, when one of the individuals is just barely not-yet-an-18-year-old-legal-adult (so, in some states, it may be the case that a relationship between a 17-year-old and a 19-year-old is okay, but not between a 17-year-old and a 30-year-old). Another example of a factor that may be relevant is a limitation by relationship, when a "younger partner is deemed able to consent to having sex with an older one as long as the latter is not in a position of trust or authority, or is not recognised to be abusing the inexperience of the younger one." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States#Summary | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8760 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:13 Slydie wrote: I seriously think a world where nobody cared about the private and sex life of politicians would be a better one. I could not care less who they sleep with, where they go on holiday or if someone suspects them of some minor crime. I wish they could be judged as professionals, every action they do as such is already public. I think no one would care if they were not constantly screaming on the campaign trail "JUDEO CHRISTIAN FAMILY VALUES". this is not a one way street, they use it as a qualifier among themselves first and foremost. holding them to their words and ideals does not seem too far fetched to me. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46217 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:44 Doublemint wrote: I think no one would care if they were not constantly screaming on the campaign trail "JUDEO CHRISTIAN FAMILY VALUES". this is not a one way street, they use it as a qualifier among themselves first and foremost. holding them to their words and ideals does not seem too far fetched to me. To be fair, there are definitely some Biblical verses that justify the shady things that Matt Gaetz has done lol... maybe he means those values. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
On April 01 2021 03:37 Nevuk wrote: Well, I didn't realize this little bit about the Floyd murder. There was a firefighter on the scene and the cops kept her from administering first aid to Floyd. (She testified today). Like, I don't think there's any possible way to excuse that? Sure there is: as she later testifies about her own experience as an EMT, they do not allow for the general public to interfere with police, fire, whatever procedures going on. She was off-duty, so to those involved she really was just another lady yelling while they waited for paramedics, who were already called, to show up. | ||
Falling
Canada11583 Posts
On April 01 2021 07:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: To be fair, there are definitely some Biblical verses that justify the shady things that Matt Gaetz has done lol... maybe he means those values. Like what? A couple Old Testament laws taken out of context? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46217 Posts
On April 01 2021 11:28 Falling wrote: Like what? A couple Old Testament laws taken out of context? Out of context? One can cherry pick many good - and bad - verses, to justify just about anything, especially surrounding sexual relations and "family values". I don't want to derail the thread with religion though, so I'll leave it at that. | ||
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Falling
Canada11583 Posts
On April 01 2021 12:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Out of context? One can cherry pick many good - and bad - verses, to justify just about anything, especially surrounding sexual relations and "family values". I don't want to derail the thread with religion though, so I'll leave it at that. That's my point- out of context. We shouldn't derail the thread, I agree. But I find these sort of pointless jibes a nuisance. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8145 Posts
On April 01 2021 06:13 Slydie wrote: I seriously think a world where nobody cared about the private and sex life of politicians would be a better one. I could not care less who they sleep with, where they go on holiday or if someone suspects them of some minor crime. I wish they could be judged as professionals, every action they do as such is already public. Couldn't agree more. Generally people's sex lives should be their business unless they do something illegal in which case it's the law's business. Public figures having their careers destroyed because of some public outrage over stuff that are not illegal always make me cringe. Then again, Americans are suuuuper moralistic with those things and absolutely love their scandals. I have no problem, on the other hand, about pointing the hypocrisy of the "family values" and "christian values" of those politicians - or pointing out that they are not the best to talk about women's cause. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 01 2021 16:33 Biff The Understudy wrote: Couldn't agree more. Generally people's sex lives should be their business unless they do something illegal in which case it's the law's business. Public figures having their careers destroyed because of some public outrage over stuff that are not illegal always make me cringe. Then again, Americans are suuuuper moralistic with those things and absolutely love their scandals. I have no problem, on the other hand, about pointing the hypocrisy of the "family values" and "christian values" of those politicians - or pointing out that they are not the best to talk about women's cause. If someone cheats on their wife, it is a valid mark against them in my book because politicians have a huge capability to commit unethical, self-serving acts. My only friend who I know cheated on his girlfriend is also a generally not very trustworthy guy. Probably not a coincidence. If someone has a weird fetish, go to town, have women piss all over you. So long as everyone is consenting and having a good time, go for it. But I do think there are some ethical failings that would make me question a politician. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8145 Posts
On April 02 2021 02:00 Mohdoo wrote: If someone cheats on their wife, it is a valid mark against them in my book because politicians have a huge capability to commit unethical, self-serving acts. My only friend who I know cheated on his girlfriend is also a generally not very trustworthy guy. Probably not a coincidence. If someone has a weird fetish, go to town, have women piss all over you. So long as everyone is consenting and having a good time, go for it. But I do think there are some ethical failings that would make me question a politician. If everyone who has cheated on a partner should be shamed nationally and barred from public service, there would a severe shortage of people to chose from. Again, I know that sexual moralism is a national sport in the US, but I think it's the single most stupid metric by which one can chose or discard his leaders. And I also know quite a few wonderful and people with otherwise high integrity that have committed adultery at one point or another, for reasons that frankly are their concerns. If you have a politician, who, à la Strauss Kahn, is most probably guilty of rape and has a prostitution ring set up for him by his friends, yeah, he should be barred from office. If someone has had rough patches in his marital life, and at some point has had someone else, it's really, really, really, none of my fucking business. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On April 02 2021 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote: If everyone who has cheated on a partner should be shamed nationally and barred from public service, there would a severe shortage of people to chose from. Again, I know that sexual moralism is a national sport in the US, but I think it's the single most stupid metric by which one can chose or discard his leaders. And I also know quite a few wonderful and people with otherwise high integrity that have committed adultery at one point or another, for reasons that frankly are their concerns. If you have a politician, who, à la Strauss Kahn, is most probably guilty of rape and has a prostitution ring set up for him by his friends, yeah, he should be barred from office. If someone has had rough patches in his marital life, and at some point has had someone else, it's really, really, really, none of my fucking business. To each their own. I have no issue having a shortage of people to hold office. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8145 Posts
On April 02 2021 03:00 Mohdoo wrote: To each their own. I have no issue having a shortage of people to hold office. We can agree to disagree. Although I find those judgmental stances very unpleasant, I also realize it's a deeply cultural issue. France doesn't have the US puritan background, and is a rather permissive culture. As a result, I find, say, Pence who doesn't want to be left alone with a woman because what could happen, a thousand times more disturbing than someone who was not always the most faithful. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
As Biff and other Europeans here have noted, there are some unique American cultural influences that shape this discussion for us. | ||
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farvacola
United States18866 Posts
On April 02 2021 03:19 Stratos_speAr wrote: This argument rests on a foundational assumption of adultery/cheating being a core moral offense or not. You would have to debate that part to really get at the core of "is it bad for politicians to do that?". As Biff and other Europeans here have noted, there are some unique American cultural influences that shape this discussion for us. I don't think it has to be reduced down that much, it can instead be framed as an issue of whether adultery relates to an individual's trustworthiness as a general matter. | ||
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