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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 2983

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-08 15:28:36
January 08 2021 15:27 GMT
#59641
To add to what you posted Syldie, Maryland's governer says he was repeatedly denied authorization to send in the national guard. The person denying the requests was defense secretary Stephen Miller who Trump appointed shortly after losing the election.

Hogan said during a press conference that he convened an emergency meeting of his “unified command team” when he was informed of a mob of Trump supporters descending on the Capitol as lawmakers attempted to certify President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.

Hogan says he mobilized 200 “specially trained” state troopers and instructed Maj. Gen. Timothy Gowen, the general of the Maryland National Guard, to mobilize his troops.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer called Hogan from an “undisclosed bunker” and were “pleading” with him for assistance from his state and national forces, the governor said.

However, Hogan, who requires the Department of Defense’s authority to mobilize his National Guard troops, said he was “repeatedly denied” approval to do so from the Pentagon despite being “ready, willing and able” to assist.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2021/01/07/maryland-governor-says-pentagon-repeatedly-denied-approval-to-send-national-guard-to-capitol/?sh=20b807ba6cb4

Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22373 Posts
January 08 2021 15:28 GMT
#59642
yeah, what possible bad precent could we set if we pardon the president for trying to stage a coup to remain in power....
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9057 Posts
January 08 2021 15:32 GMT
#59643
At some point, you have to break the chain and deploy the fucking troops, consequences be damned. This waffling over authority and whatnot is infuriating as fuck. The capitol building was stormed. Send them the fuck in. Deal with whatever later.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22373 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-08 15:35:47
January 08 2021 15:35 GMT
#59644
On January 09 2021 00:32 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
At some point, you have to break the chain and deploy the fucking troops, consequences be damned. This waffling over authority and whatnot is infuriating as fuck. The capitol building was stormed. Send them the fuck in. Deal with whatever later.
Which may have been what Pence ended up doing.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1936 Posts
January 08 2021 15:40 GMT
#59645
On January 09 2021 00:35 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2021 00:32 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
At some point, you have to break the chain and deploy the fucking troops, consequences be damned. This waffling over authority and whatnot is infuriating as fuck. The capitol building was stormed. Send them the fuck in. Deal with whatever later.
Which may have been what Pence ended up doing.


Indeed. My gut feeling is that a "silent 25th" was put in place at that point, and nobody is really taking orders from the president anymore.
Buff the siegetank
Starlightsun
Profile Blog Joined June 2016
United States1405 Posts
January 08 2021 15:41 GMT
#59646
The question is did Trump instruct his loyalists in the pentagon, who he'd just installed in November, to deliberately withhold aid while he sent an angry mob to the capitol?
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
January 08 2021 15:43 GMT
#59647
On January 09 2021 00:41 Starlightsun wrote:
The question is did Trump instruct his loyalists in the pentagon, who he'd just installed in November, to deliberately withhold aid while he sent an angry mob to the capitol?

The reporting on this specific question is spotty, but it is looking increasingly likely that the slow response was at least somewhat related to deliberate acts on the part of Trump sympathetic actors at DoD and the Capitol Police.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22373 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-08 15:52:37
January 08 2021 15:52 GMT
#59648
On January 09 2021 00:41 Starlightsun wrote:
The question is did Trump instruct his loyalists in the pentagon, who he'd just installed in November, to deliberately withhold aid while he sent an angry mob to the capitol?
Probably hard to prove without a smoking gun email but what legit reason could the DoD possibly have to withhold the national guard while the capitol is being stormed?
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8082 Posts
January 08 2021 16:13 GMT
#59649
Yeah..., Looks more and more like a deliberate attempt to stage (or let happen) a coup and less and less like some Trump morons doing moronic things and just getting sent home.

Except, being Trump, it's a shit coup, everyone involved is retarded and it ends up doing pretty much the opposite of what was intended.

A fine way to end that presidency.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 08 2021 16:19 GMT
#59650
There's also reports of capitol police literally giving directions to the insurrectionists in the capitol at first when they asked where places were.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8082 Posts
January 08 2021 16:21 GMT
#59651
On January 09 2021 01:19 Nevuk wrote:
There's also reports of capitol police literally giving directions to the insurrectionists in the capitol at first when they asked where places were.

You got sources about that, though?
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-08 16:25:27
January 08 2021 16:24 GMT
#59652
On January 09 2021 01:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2021 01:19 Nevuk wrote:
There's also reports of capitol police literally giving directions to the insurrectionists in the capitol at first when they asked where places were.

You got sources about that, though?

Capitol police ? Is that the same as Capitol security ?
It doesn't seem too far fetched, considering some policemen happily took selfies with some of those traitors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
January 08 2021 16:25 GMT
#59653
On January 09 2021 01:21 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2021 01:19 Nevuk wrote:
There's also reports of capitol police literally giving directions to the insurrectionists in the capitol at first when they asked where places were.

You got sources about that, though?


“We wanted to have a few words” with Mr. Schumer, he said. “He’s probably the most corrupt guy up here. You don’t hear too much about him. But he’s slimy. You can just see it.” But they could not find Mr. Schumer’s office. He said they asked a Capitol Police officer, who tried to direct them. But they appeared to have gotten nowhere near the minority’s leader’s office. They ended up smoking a few cigarettes inside the building — “We can smoke in our house,” Aaron said — and one of his friends, who would not give his name, joked that he had gone to the bathroom and not flushed.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/names-of-rioters-capitol.html
LiquidDota Staff
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9641 Posts
January 08 2021 16:27 GMT
#59654
the capitol police are a federal police force tasked with securing the united states congress. like the secret service but for congress. they have exclusive jurisdiction on capitol grounds.
KungKras
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden484 Posts
January 08 2021 16:31 GMT
#59655
After this. I sincerely hope that it stops being considered hyperbole to call the republicans that follow Trump (which is like, what, close to 50% or more of republicans at this point?) what they are.

Facists.
"When life gives me lemons, I go look for oranges"
Erasme
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Bahamas15899 Posts
January 08 2021 16:31 GMT
#59656
On January 09 2021 01:27 brian wrote:
the capitol police are a federal police force tasked with securing the united states congress. like the secret service but for congress. they have exclusive jurisdiction on capitol grounds.

Didnt the sergeant at arms protect the congress ? I thought the capitol police was directly under him ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lxwFEB6FI “‘Drain the swamp’? Stupid saying, means nothing, but you guys loved it so I kept saying it.”
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-01-08 16:36:25
January 08 2021 16:35 GMT
#59657
The sergeants at arms of the House and Senate serve on the Board of the Capitol Police, but do not direct or supervise that entity, which is a task given to the Chief of the Capitol Police. Basically, their authority begins at ends at the doors of the chambers they serve in.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 08 2021 16:35 GMT
#59658
I think the presidential pardon as a whole needs to go. It should be that the president can bring it up to congress or something. Have the senate vote on a pardon.
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7393 Posts
January 08 2021 16:38 GMT
#59659
On January 09 2021 01:35 Mohdoo wrote:
I think the presidential pardon as a whole needs to go. It should be that the president can bring it up to congress or something. Have the senate vote on a pardon.


There are a TREMENDOUS numbers of norms in government that Democrats are going to need to spend the next year codifying into law.

We should search day by day from day one of Trump's presidency and compile a list.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
January 08 2021 16:39 GMT
#59660
So is the reason Dems are moving slowly with impeachment to make it easier for Republican senators to swallow? Like holding the senate trials and votes a day or two before Trump's term ends gives them a chance to stand on the side of law, and could be sold to the electorate (excluding the hardest Trumpists obviously) as a necessary move. Basically let the hottest feelings cool down a bit but then go through the removal vote to take at least a cosmetic stance. Also would solve their Trump 2024 problem, having him legally barred from running may make their next years easier if they are truly willing to move past Trump.

I mean I hope there is some sort of negotiations going between the party whips on how to move on. I don't think dems want to impeach again without removal from office, and I'd like to hope that sufficient amount of R senators see this is as an impeachable offence. I think the fact that the MAGA crowd are turning on the establishment Republicans (even Pence being targeted is a pretty strong indicator that the loyalty of the MAGA+QAnon crowds are to Trump, not to the wider party) may make it easier for McConnell to support impeachment as well. Surely the conservatives won't consider keeping Trump around after this.
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
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