Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
That's one side of the medal.
The other one would be to assume that you're not talking to a teenager, but supposedly responsible adults. I mean, sure, for some americans it's probably an apt description to act like a spoiled teenager (sidenote, when i was young and got told to not do something, i didn't do that thing or at the very least tried to do it in secret - with proper repercussions if i got caught).
It's all fun and games until one of your relatives dies.
Of course a lockdown is damaging, more so in the US than in most other western countries (though they'll feel it too). But i'm not sure you understand the implication of what you're suggesting. You yourself suggest that a vaccine isn't a solution to "wait for". That means that, with your "views", you'll never get the virus under control. Considering that "herd immunity" is a pipe dream judging by the current evidence (subject to change of course, but for now that's where we are), so what's your plan? Sacrifice millions over the next year or two? You act like the virus is under control, really. You can clearly see that people don't give a shit about safety precautions.
To put it as clear as possible, this part here:
People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life.
isn't actually a problem with the virus. It's a problem with the USA. It's a realitycheck for your "social safety nets".
I mean, in the end: you do you. I just wanted to point out that your view is pretty shortsighted.
Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage.
Not sure if i understand correctly, but this is wishful thinking. If this goes well, Trump will claim credit for it, of course. If this goes south, Brian Kemp will take the blame, since Trump said that while he's the glorious, all powerful leader - he'll leave it to the governors to make the decision. Doesn't matter how hard he pushed for it, he'll just run with it like he runs with "banning some flights from china" as proof for his instant response. For it to be bad for Trump, he'd need to accept responsibility for it (so his base actually grasps the fact), and since he has not once taken responsibility for any retarded thing he has done in the last 45 years - fat chance.
And of course, his base is gonna suck it up like a desperate middle aged pornstar.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
That's one side of the medal.
The other one would be to assume that you're not talking to a teenager, but supposedly responsible adults. I mean, sure, for some americans it's probably an apt description to act like a spoiled teenager (sidenote, when i was young and got told to not do something, i didn't do that thing or at the very least tried to do it in secret - with proper repercussions if i got caught).
It's all fun and games until one of your relatives dies.
Of course a lockdown is damaging, more so in the US than in most other western countries (though they'll feel it too). But i'm not sure you understand the implication of what you're suggesting. You yourself suggest that a vaccine isn't a solution to "wait for". That means that, with your "views", you'll never get the virus under control. Considering that "herd immunity" is a pipe dream judging by the current evidence (subject to change of course, but for now that's where we are), so what's your plan? Sacrifice millions over the next year or two? You act like the virus is under control, really. You can clearly see that people don't give a shit about safety precautions.
Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage.
Not sure if i understand correctly, but this is wishful thinking. If this goes well, Trump will claim credit for it, of course. If this goes south, Brian Kemp will take the blame, since Trump said that while he's the glorious, all powerful leader - he'll leave it to the governors to make the decision. Doesn't matter how hard he pushed for it, he'll just run with it like he runs with "banning some flights from china" as proof for his instant response.
And of course, his base is gonna suck it up like a desperate middle aged pornstar.
Who is paying for these safety nets when you have 30-40%+ unemployment? Like, you're just doing what I expected, bitching about peoples behaviors not conforming to Government edicts. Instead of seeing reality and adjusting public policy you just poke out your eyes and ears and say, well, let's continue doing what we're doing because they should be acting this way. It's like Neo-classical economists and the rational actor. You can't just wish a thing into existence.
As for the virus itself. New data is pointing to CFR being somewhere between .2 to .6. There aren't going to be millions of deaths even with no restrictions. Even the most dire models have lowered predictions to 200-300k (and will continue to be lowered). This isn't the goddamn plague, and please stop with that you want people to die or just wait until someone you know dies. That's an appeal to emotion, not facts or reason.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
That's one side of the medal.
The other one would be to assume that you're not talking to a teenager, but supposedly responsible adults. I mean, sure, for some americans it's probably an apt description to act like a spoiled teenager (sidenote, when i was young and got told to not do something, i didn't do that thing or at the very least tried to do it in secret - with proper repercussions if i got caught).
It's all fun and games until one of your relatives dies.
Of course a lockdown is damaging, more so in the US than in most other western countries (though they'll feel it too). But i'm not sure you understand the implication of what you're suggesting. You yourself suggest that a vaccine isn't a solution to "wait for". That means that, with your "views", you'll never get the virus under control. Considering that "herd immunity" is a pipe dream judging by the current evidence (subject to change of course, but for now that's where we are), so what's your plan? Sacrifice millions over the next year or two? You act like the virus is under control, really. You can clearly see that people don't give a shit about safety precautions.
To put it as clear as possible, this part here:
People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life.
isn't actually a problem with the virus. It's a problem with the USA. It's a realitycheck for your "social safety nets".
I mean, in the end: you do you. I just wanted to point out that your view is pretty shortsighted.
Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage.
Not sure if i understand correctly, but this is wishful thinking. If this goes well, Trump will claim credit for it, of course. If this goes south, Brian Kemp will take the blame, since Trump said that while he's the glorious, all powerful leader - he'll leave it to the governors to make the decision. Doesn't matter how hard he pushed for it, he'll just run with it like he runs with "banning some flights from china" as proof for his instant response.
And of course, his base is gonna suck it up like a desperate middle aged pornstar.
Who is paying for these safety nets when you have 30-40%+ unemployment? Like, you're just doing what I expected, bitching about peoples behaviors not conforming to Government edicts. Instead of seeing reality and adjusting public policy you just poke out your eyes and ears and say, well, let's continue doing what we're doing because they should be acting this way. It's like Neo-classical economists and the rational actor. You can't just wish a thing into existence.
Well, lets think about who'd be paying for those safety nets. Tell me, if you don't mind, who's paying 60b to airlines? Who's bailing out the big companies?
I'm not bitching about peoples behaviors, lol. I'm pointing out that you haven't thought it through and argue with "facts" that are indeed, not facts. As a sidenote: i'm not sure you realise, but it's too late for a "social safety net" now that shit hit the fan. That should've been done before the inevitable shitshow started. Not weeks or months. Years.
I actually never said "lets continue". I said what you're suggesting won't work. I'll also say that you know that full well, but don't give a shit about the repercussions since they won't affect you. Oh, and no. You can't just wish a thing into existence. That's very correct. That goes for "solutions" like yours as well as "waiting till a vaccine".
As for the virus itself. New data is pointing to CFR being somewhere between .2 to .6. There aren't going to be millions of deaths even with no restrictions. Even the most dire models have lowered predictions to 200-300k (and will continue to be lowered). This isn't the goddamn plague, and please stop with that you want people to die or just wait until someone you know dies. That's an appeal to emotion, not facts or reason.
Not sure how much sense it makes to argue with someone who doesn't know the difference between CFR and IFR, but here goes. No, the CFR in the US isn't between 0.2 to 0.6. It's around 5%. It's assumed that globally, the CFR is around 0.5% - which includes of course countries that don't really track properly due to, you know, not being able to. The CFR in the US, as mentioned, is around 5% currently.
What you're talking about is the IFR. The infection fatality rate. And, there's certainly merit to that number, if you basically ignore all caveats. These numbers that you're citing, probably come from the CEBM at Oxford University. Those numbers are correct with a twist. Nobody knows how many people are asymptomatic. Without that number, everything else is useless. Not "close but no cigar", but useless. We do have guesses, and that's what the current IFR is based on, but that's about it. The (btw non-peer reviewed) article, as a sidenote, mentions that too.
They're also not taking into account the emerging evidence of re-infections, as well as non-lethal damage to organs which can lead to death later down the line - especially a second infection. Now, this isn't fiction. We know that there's no full immunity against the virus. If we take SARS, on average you're protected for 2 years. That's the average.
Without knowing how immunity works with Covid19, all IFRs are off the table. Here's the thing.
Yeah, it isn't like the plague. As in, you can actually vaccinate against the plague (and even so, you still have cases every year in the US).
Can you guarantee that it's not the devils version of the spanish flu? Can you guarantee that this is it, and that the second wave isn't gonna be much, much more deadly - as it literally always has happened with pandemics?
That's my point. Your "idea" isn't necessarily wrong. It's the method that's moronic. It's like pandemics have never happened before, just bitching about how you need to go to the hair dresser (i look like a yeti by now) so pls open up isn't gonna work.
All the estimates we're arguing with are based on current numbers created in the fucking lockdown.
These numbers will NOT stay the same if you just stop being intelligent now.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
That's one side of the medal.
The other one would be to assume that you're not talking to a teenager, but supposedly responsible adults. I mean, sure, for some americans it's probably an apt description to act like a spoiled teenager (sidenote, when i was young and got told to not do something, i didn't do that thing or at the very least tried to do it in secret - with proper repercussions if i got caught).
It's all fun and games until one of your relatives dies.
Of course a lockdown is damaging, more so in the US than in most other western countries (though they'll feel it too). But i'm not sure you understand the implication of what you're suggesting. You yourself suggest that a vaccine isn't a solution to "wait for". That means that, with your "views", you'll never get the virus under control. Considering that "herd immunity" is a pipe dream judging by the current evidence (subject to change of course, but for now that's where we are), so what's your plan? Sacrifice millions over the next year or two? You act like the virus is under control, really. You can clearly see that people don't give a shit about safety precautions.
To put it as clear as possible, this part here:
People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life.
isn't actually a problem with the virus. It's a problem with the USA. It's a realitycheck for your "social safety nets".
I mean, in the end: you do you. I just wanted to point out that your view is pretty shortsighted.
Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage.
Not sure if i understand correctly, but this is wishful thinking. If this goes well, Trump will claim credit for it, of course. If this goes south, Brian Kemp will take the blame, since Trump said that while he's the glorious, all powerful leader - he'll leave it to the governors to make the decision. Doesn't matter how hard he pushed for it, he'll just run with it like he runs with "banning some flights from china" as proof for his instant response.
And of course, his base is gonna suck it up like a desperate middle aged pornstar.
Who is paying for these safety nets when you have 30-40%+ unemployment? Like, you're just doing what I expected, bitching about peoples behaviors not conforming to Government edicts. Instead of seeing reality and adjusting public policy you just poke out your eyes and ears and say, well, let's continue doing what we're doing because they should be acting this way. It's like Neo-classical economists and the rational actor. You can't just wish a thing into existence.
Well, lets think about who'd be paying for those safety nets. Tell me, if you don't mind, who's paying 60b to airlines? Who's bailing out the big companies?
I'm not bitching about peoples behaviors, lol. I'm pointing out that you haven't thought it through and argue with "facts" that are indeed, not facts. As a sidenote: i'm not sure you realise, but it's too late for a "social safety net" now that shit hit the fan. That should've been done before the inevitable shitshow started. Not weeks or months. Years.
I actually never said "lets continue". I said what you're suggesting won't work. I'll also say that you know that full well, but don't give a shit about the repercussions since they won't affect you. Oh, and no. You can't just wish a thing into existence. That's very correct. That goes for "solutions" like yours as well as "waiting till a vaccine".
As for the virus itself. New data is pointing to CFR being somewhere between .2 to .6. There aren't going to be millions of deaths even with no restrictions. Even the most dire models have lowered predictions to 200-300k (and will continue to be lowered). This isn't the goddamn plague, and please stop with that you want people to die or just wait until someone you know dies. That's an appeal to emotion, not facts or reason.
Not sure how much sense it makes to argue with someone who doesn't know the difference between CFR and IFR, but here goes. No, the CFR in the US isn't between 0.2 to 0.6. It's around 5%. It's assumed that globally, the CFR is around 0.5% - which includes of course countries that don't really track properly due to, you know, not being able to. The CFR in the US, as mentioned, is around 5% currently.
What you're talking about is the IFR. The infection fatality rate. And, there's certainly merit to that number, if you basically ignore all caveats. These numbers that you're citing, probably come from the CEBM at Oxford University. Those numbers are correct with a twist. Nobody knows how many people are asymptomatic. Without that number, everything else is useless. Not "close but no cigar", but useless. We do have guesses, and that's what the current IFR is based on, but that's about it. The (btw non-peer reviewed) article, as a sidenote, mentions that too.
They're also not taking into account the emerging evidence of re-infections, as well as non-lethal damage to organs which can lead to death later down the line - especially a second infection. Now, this isn't fiction. We know that there's no full immunity against the virus. If we take SARS, on average you're protected for 2 years. That's the average.
Without knowing how immunity works with Covid19, all IFRs are off the table. Here's the thing.
Yeah, it isn't like the plague. As in, you can actually vaccinate against the plague (and even so, you still have cases every year in the US).
Can you guarantee that it's not the devils version of the spanish flu? Can you guarantee that this is it, and that the second wave isn't gonna be much, much more deadly - as it literally always has happened with pandemics?
That's my point. Your "idea" isn't necessarily wrong. It's the method that's moronic. It's like pandemics have never happened before, just bitching about how you need to go to the hair dresser (i look like a yeti by now) so pls open up isn't gonna work.
All the estimates we're arguing with are based on current numbers created in the fucking lockdown.
These numbers will NOT stay the same if you just stop being intelligent now.
You realize that America's economy/GDP is 20+ trillion a year; a one time 60B infusion is nothing if you're of the mind to continue the lockdown for months on end. I live in Hawaii, we have the worst unemployment rate right now in the country. Over 250,000 recently applied for UI. We have about 1.25 mil state population. Lockdowns going much further are not sustainable, and by the way the US has a robust welfare system. Where people get this idea that the US is some laissez-faire dog-eat-dog world is weird. Not only does the US have the highest progressive taxation of all OECD countries we also spend a shit-ton on welfare systems.
The economy is peoples lives. You think it's some abstract notion, but it's not. It's for many people their raison d'etre, giving us meaningful purposeful existence. It's why it's not uncommon to see people wither away and die early after retirement. Your off-hand remark about yeti's is demeaning to people's existence and purposeful roles in this life. We've had 12 deaths in Hawaii from COVID, which I suspect give this another 2 months and you'll see suicides dwarf that number.
Your issue is that you're only taking one variable into account and elevating it. Not having economists involved alongside epidemiologists to determine appropriate course of action is lunacy. If you want to kill more people than the virus is going to itself continue this insanity.
Edit: I know this is long and probably no one is going to watch it, but this Stanford MD gives a very thoughtful understanding of our approach we've taken and why it is not appropriate.
Firstly, i would like to mention that the general gameplan is NOT "lockdown till vaccine". It is "Lockdown to reduce amount of cases to a number that you can track each case individually again"
On April 22 2020 17:06 Simberto wrote: Firstly, i would like to mention that the general gameplan is NOT "lockdown till vaccine". It is "Lockdown to reduce amount of cases to a number that you can track each case individually again"
What is your proposal?
Not even that. It's lockdown until we can make sure hospitals do not have to refuse patients and let them die in the streets. Which Wegandi's solution completely ignores as he is not talking about the death rate when no care is available.
It's also rather selfish to put it in terms of whether the virus might kill you, specifically. It's a pandemic. Spreading like wildfire doesn't begin to cover it. We're not keeping younger people at home because they're high risk, we're keeping them home because they'll be a vector for infecting high risk individuals. Old people don't just live in nursing homes. And that's ignoring all the other high risk groups. You can't just pat yourself on the back for thinking the old folks homes have it covered. Even with proper care they're encountering super high mortality rates.
Let's end the preposterous comparison to things like the flu before they begin, shall we.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
He probably refers to the study on how mask are ineffective if the people wearing it aren't taking the proper precautions, like not touching your face and such. www.newsweek.com They refer the study in it.
The head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Dr Rick Bright, that oversees US corona vaccine research has been removed from his position. He thinks it's for political reasons and had his lawyers file a complaint:
...this resulted in clashes with HHS political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early in vaccines and supplies critical to to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections. Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit
Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
On April 23 2020 09:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Dr Rick Bright, that oversees US corona vaccine research has been removed from his position. He thinks it's for political reasons and had his lawyers file a complaint:
...this resulted in clashes with HHS political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early in vaccines and supplies critical to to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections. Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit
Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
At this point I really wouldn't be surprised to find out Jared recently bought up all the HCQ manufacturing facilities.
On April 23 2020 09:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
Your guess is as good as anyone. However Fox News talked about it first then trump took it up then foxnews took it up and again and again. They have their own little echo chamber.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
On April 23 2020 01:08 Erasme wrote: He probably refers to the study on how mask are ineffective if the people wearing it aren't taking the proper precautions, like not touching your face and such. www.newsweek.com They refer the study in it.
There's a lot of studies on this subject (and no, not even that they aren't taking proper precautions, but that most masks people wear are either ineffective or counterfactual). Public policy is often not based on facts, but on perceived benefit or in the interest of "doing something" to placate the electorate. If it sounds good, it's good public policy a lot of the times. No one bothers to actually take the time to look at these things critically.
On April 22 2020 04:50 JimmiC wrote: Georgia is reopening even though cases are going up. If this go well it’s good news for Trump, if it goes horribly it will be bad and it will thrust Stacy abrams onto the national stage. I hope it goes well for Georgia’s sake but considering what all the doctors are saying I’m doubtful.
Gov. Kemp had the CDC sign off on his plans (if that matters for you). Honestly, people advocating for lockdown until a vaccine comes (ya'll know how coronaviruses work, right?) are unaware how damaging that will be compared to the virus itself. People can tolerate a month at most before you see people say fuck you I need to feed, house, and live my damn life. Draconian policies are only going to have the opposite intended effect (it's like telling a teenager, you're forbidden to drink, have sex, or smoke), but hey, intentions are the only thing that matters, or you can bitch about how people aren't automatons and don't obey Government edicts with 100% veracity.
Also, I get a kick out of the people wearing cloth masks. Do people even know that cloth masks *increase* your risk of infection and spreading it (if you want proof I'll post a litany of NIH studies for your perusal)? Ironically, Government mandated mask wearing will do more harm than good.
I work with the most at-risk population (geriatric with significant co-morbidities as an OT), we should take precautions to safeguard them, for the rest of us we need to get on with our lives over a relatively minor virus.
The study design does not allow us to determine whether medical masks had efficacy or whether cloth masks were detrimental to HCWs by causing an increase in infection risk. Either possibility, or a combination of both effects, could explain our results. It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask.
Second study says nothing about cloth increasing risks. Third page is a commentary from someone with no links to studies showing cloth increases risk.
So let's get past the "for starters." You can give me the good stuff you have showing cloth masks increase risk.
On April 23 2020 09:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Dr Rick Bright, that oversees US corona vaccine research has been removed from his position. He thinks it's for political reasons and had his lawyers file a complaint:
...this resulted in clashes with HHS political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early in vaccines and supplies critical to to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections. Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit
Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
Don't look for sinister motives. He saw it on Tucker Carlson show and that's it. The man is that much of an idiot.
On April 23 2020 09:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Dr Rick Bright, that oversees US corona vaccine research has been removed from his position. He thinks it's for political reasons and had his lawyers file a complaint:
...this resulted in clashes with HHS political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early in vaccines and supplies critical to to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections. Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit
Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
Don't look for sinister motives. He saw it on Tucker Carlson show and that's it. The man is that much of an idiot.
Dunno, that is surely a plausible explanation, but in a lot of these cases, it later also turns out that he or his direct family profit directly from the stupidity he advocates. So it could be either. Either just repeating stupid shit from fox news, or seeing stuff on fox news that he profits from and then keeping on rolling with it.
On April 23 2020 09:38 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: The head of the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, Dr Rick Bright, that oversees US corona vaccine research has been removed from his position. He thinks it's for political reasons and had his lawyers file a complaint:
...this resulted in clashes with HHS political leadership, including criticism for my proactive efforts to invest early in vaccines and supplies critical to to saving American lives. I also resisted efforts to fund potentially dangerous drugs promoted by those with political connections. Specifically, and contrary to misguided directives, I limited the broad use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, promoted by the administration as a panacea, but which clearly lack scientific merit
Trump of course says he's never heard of the man...
What's the whole deal with Trump and hydroxychloroquine anyway? Is there a more sinister monetary motive for him or for friends of his? Or does he just really want this to be over asap and he clamped onto the first 'cure' that he saw on Fox News, ignoring any further nuance about it even actually working?
On April 23 2020 01:08 Erasme wrote: He probably refers to the study on how mask are ineffective if the people wearing it aren't taking the proper precautions, like not touching your face and such. www.newsweek.com They refer the study in it.
There's a lot of studies on this subject (and no, not even that they aren't taking proper precautions, but that most masks people wear are either ineffective or counterfactual). Public policy is often not based on facts, but on perceived benefit or in the interest of "doing something" to placate the electorate. If it sounds good, it's good public policy a lot of the times. No one bothers to actually take the time to look at these things critically.
So I suppose it's like when Trump said "what have you got to lose?" In reference to taking hydroxicloroquine, a drug not only not proven against the Coronavirus whatsoever, but also a life-saving drug for people with lupus that is now in dangerously short supply.
EPT
