EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2280
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 24 2020 06:32 farvacola wrote: Many businesses (especially volume operations) are only able to futz with prices if they're able to recalibrate overhead/fixed costs to match, imagine how many business plans that were relied on for loan specifics/approval are now very broken and in need of fixing. Basically every player along the chain is going to have take some kind of haircut. That's not how capitalism works though is it? We tax a corporation and it raises prices is the classic argument. So not everyone will end up really taking that haircut. Just the smaller businesses that couldn't get the PPP or other small business aid eaten up by the ruth chris steakhouse types That said, it looks like were experiencing a huge economic contraction so I agree few will do better/same as usual. Other than those using this crisis to eliminate competitors, they'll make out like bandits through this. | ||
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farvacola
United States18876 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On April 24 2020 06:11 ChristianS wrote: Is Wegandi in your definition then? I don’t know that I’ve ever heard him talk about Rand, Hayek, Ron Paul, taxation is theft, or motorbike safety. Well his current response to the lockdown seems to boil down to 'money matters more let them die' so yeah I think it's fairly safe to put him in that category. | ||
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Howie_Dewitt
United States1416 Posts
On April 24 2020 07:07 JimmiC wrote: Can you explain this sentence? There are lots of forms of capitalism that believe in taxing is there not? Or has capitalism came to mean everything "bad" ? "Everyone will have to take some kind of haircut" Corporations can raise prices in response to a tax increase or a new tax, pushing part of the burden of taxation onto the consumers who must now put up with the price. It's redistributing how much hair everyone's losing, so the corporations that GH says can manipulate prices at will (something farv seems to have an issue with) will take less of the loss and "lose less hair" in this analogy than the people buying the products. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Anyways, the perk of a situation where workers own the factory is that they raise prices, but they also presumably use their own services and are paying back into it more, etc. so its not really doing anything, as opposed to the current situation where people pay the higher prices and those higher price monies are funneled to a cabal of rich douchenozzles with no positive effect on anyone else. Fuck billionaires, eat the rich, devour the wealthy, ingest the monied, vore the oligarchy, taste the cash-flush, etc. etc. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 24 2020 09:23 Zambrah wrote: Whats a necessity nowadays is a topic worthy of debate, granted I think most people would assume necessities extend to things like the internet. I'd honestly say that anything involving a phone is also basically a necessity in the US, I've tried to live without one for a few months and holy. fucking. SHIT. An ultramassive pain in the ass. I couldn't even update my IRS info on their website without a phone number, lol. Anyways, the perk of a situation where workers own the factory is that they raise prices, but they also presumably use their own services and are paying back into it more, etc. so its not really doing anything, as opposed to the current situation where people pay the higher prices and those higher price monies are funneled to a cabal of rich douchenozzles with no positive effect on anyone else. Fuck billionaires, eat the rich, devour the wealthy, ingest the monied, vore the oligarchy, taste the cash-flush, etc. etc. You might be onto something with "Taste the wealthy" (combined a couple you had there). Of course if workers own a place like an upscale salon like Gene Juarez (a local favorite of the petite/bourgeoisie) then the increased prices flow into the workers pockets (which they will spend at other worker owned businesses perpetuating the economic impact of something like a UBI instead of the PPP trash). As it stands the ownership will charge higher rentals to the workers, workers to the customers (pricing out the lowest petites), and that money will be siphoned to the owner who statistically will spend only a fraction compared to the workers and it will be spent on goods and services the vast majority of society has no access to or use for. Internet and phone are utilities/necessities in the US and should be publicly owned imo. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On April 24 2020 07:39 iamthedave wrote: Well his current response to the lockdown seems to boil down to 'money matters more let them die' so yeah I think it's fairly safe to put him in that category. But again, his position on Covid-19 doesn’t tell us whether he reads Ayn Rand or Hayek, or whether he thinks taxation is theft. Listen, I get that type of libertarian is the easiest/most entertaining to make fun of. I do it too! The libertarians I’ve known IRL (not many, IRL is not their natural habitat) all go in for that kind of thing, although in my experience they tend to think of themselves as meme lords, with a kind of mercenary relationship with belief. But let’s let Wegandi express the belief that taxation is theft before assigning him to it. IIRC he self-identifies as libertarian (if not, my apologies Wegandi), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he thinks every shitty thing you associate with libertarians. If his actual positions are as wrong as you think they are, they’ll probably be almost as easy to tear down as the ones you’re assigning to him. And if not, maybe we’ll learn something! | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On April 24 2020 10:38 ChristianS wrote: But again, his position on Covid-19 doesn’t tell us whether he reads Ayn Rand or Hayek, or whether he thinks taxation is theft. Listen, I get that type of libertarian is the easiest/most entertaining to make fun of. I do it too! The libertarians I’ve known IRL (not many, IRL is not their natural habitat) all go in for that kind of thing, although in my experience they tend to think of themselves as meme lords, with a kind of mercenary relationship with belief. But let’s let Wegandi express the belief that taxation is theft before assigning him to it. IIRC he self-identifies as libertarian (if not, my apologies Wegandi), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he thinks every shitty thing you associate with libertarians. If his actual positions are as wrong as you think they are, they’ll probably be almost as easy to tear down as the ones you’re assigning to him. And if not, maybe we’ll learn something! Wegandi's good-to-shit post quotia is maybe 1 out of 99. He mostly posts random right wing talking points either without doing the tiniest bit of research into them or to troll and see if he gets a rise out of people. Maybe those are his actual positions, but I suspect he just spouts whatever he sees on the news/wherever he gets his news. | ||
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schaf
Germany1326 Posts
youtu.be | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8224 Posts
On April 24 2020 07:07 JimmiC wrote: Can you explain this sentence? There are lots of forms of capitalism that believe in taxing is there not? Or has capitalism came to mean everything "bad" ? "Capitalism" in this thread is used with the same scrutiny, knowledge, intelligence and refinement than "socialism". In other words it's a vague slogan that means more or less nothing at all. You can skip almost any post that talk about capitalism, usually it will be someone making vague arguments against the monster without explaining if they mean the economic system of Denmark, China, the US, or Ayn Rand's wettest dreams. I don't think they distinguish themselves. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24505 Posts
On April 24 2020 13:46 Biff The Understudy wrote: "Capitalism" in this thread is used with the same scrutiny, knowledge, intelligence and refinement than "socialism". In other words it's a vague slogan that means more or less nothing at all. You can skip almost any post that talk about capitalism, usually it will be someone making vague arguments against the monster without explaining if they mean the economic system of Denmark, China, the US, or Ayn Rand's wettest dreams. I don't think they distinguish themselves. When I say capitalism I'm referring to an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit. Typically the US's brand specifically since it is the US politics thread. When I say socialism I'm referring to a political and economic system of social organization in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned and regulated by the community as a whole. (Not the social democracy of Europe, socialism) If you have a counter-point or argument you're free to make it but trying to dunk on me pretending I'm distorting or misusing the term is just lazy. The point was a simple one about supply, demand, and capital. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On April 24 2020 10:38 ChristianS wrote: But again, his position on Covid-19 doesn’t tell us whether he reads Ayn Rand or Hayek, or whether he thinks taxation is theft. Listen, I get that type of libertarian is the easiest/most entertaining to make fun of. I do it too! The libertarians I’ve known IRL (not many, IRL is not their natural habitat) all go in for that kind of thing, although in my experience they tend to think of themselves as meme lords, with a kind of mercenary relationship with belief. But let’s let Wegandi express the belief that taxation is theft before assigning him to it. IIRC he self-identifies as libertarian (if not, my apologies Wegandi), but that doesn’t necessarily mean he thinks every shitty thing you associate with libertarians. If his actual positions are as wrong as you think they are, they’ll probably be almost as easy to tear down as the ones you’re assigning to him. And if not, maybe we’ll learn something! I am a libertarian. I like Mises, I like Hayek, I like Locke, I like Bastiat, I like you get the picture, but I don't like Rand. Objectivism =/= libertarianism. Ya'll can go ahead and make fun of libertarians if you want, I make fun of progressives, conservatives, and socialists of all stripes so fair is only fair! As for egoism, I don't really fall on one line or the other for personal preference. If you want to give to charity give, if you don't, don't. This is why I'm not really antagonistic to the church types like so many around here are as I realize they do a lot of good in the community for the most part. I don't see the DSA out there doing food drives, building houses, providing shelter for the homeless, etc. | ||
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Wegandi
United States2455 Posts
On April 24 2020 10:44 iamthedave wrote: Wegandi's good-to-shit post quotia is maybe 1 out of 99. He mostly posts random right wing talking points either without doing the tiniest bit of research into them or to troll and see if he gets a rise out of people. Maybe those are his actual positions, but I suspect he just spouts whatever he sees on the news/wherever he gets his news. This whole forum is a circle jerk and you're telling me I just post talking points. Ya, them Reason and Independent Institute talking points yo. Get in here. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18488 Posts
On April 24 2020 10:44 iamthedave wrote: Wegandi's good-to-shit post quotia is maybe 1 out of 99. He mostly posts random right wing talking points either without doing the tiniest bit of research into them or to troll and see if he gets a rise out of people. Maybe those are his actual positions, but I suspect he just spouts whatever he sees on the news/wherever he gets his news. I generally like wegandi's posts a lot more than yours. At the very least he's polite and generally respectful of the other posters in the thread rather than calling them shitposters for no reason. He generally also posts things that spark interesting discussion. Even if I mostly disagree with his viewpoints it's good to learn more about them from him. Anyway, all of this belongs in feedback, not here. | ||
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FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Netherlands30548 Posts
There's this clip where you see the doctor dying inside when he asks her this. But still, she doesn't interrupt him or immediately shut down the idea. Nobody does. Everyone plays the game of not stepping on Trumps toes. He still gets to do a new talk today. It's just accepted that everyone has to work around the president not having any clue. That's the normal. Facilitating ignorance and stupidity. I always thought him for years almost never doing press conferences except the short period before entering the helicopter was a strategy to keep his flaws from being exposed too often. But now his ineptness is on full display every single day and it changes nothing. He will still get reelected too probably. Madness. | ||
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