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On December 16 2015 03:59 Wolfstan wrote:
Anecdotally, Ontario is getting really demographically hurt by mismanagement. My 2 brothers, my father and I have taken our best earning years west to Alberta and Saskatchewan and are paying taxes there.
Just about incentives and reaping what you target. If you devote tax dollars helping poor people you get more poor people. If you create an Alberta advantage where investment pay off and taxes are low you get ambitious citizens.
Sometimes i feel guilty about Ontario investing in my childhood health and education and taking my taxpaying years to Alberta until I read election rhetoric that 6 figure income earners are the enemy who needs to pay more for their mismanagement.
We voted with our feet too.
Feels like Alberta is a bad example of "good" management. Good short term business investment on a Provincial scale until the well dried, so to speak, but I don't think "find giant reserves of oil" is a viable strategy for most places.
Kind of like a modern gold rush.
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Nobody wanted gas-fired plants in those areas, though. The problem with power generation in Ontario is that there is a large aversion to coal, gas, and nuclear. Those are the only three viable options of power generation, given the size of our province.
Quebec has hydroelectricity. We can't produce it at the same level they do, given their geography. It's pretty silly to look at these two provinces side-by-side. The only answer to the future of power generation in this province is to either get over the public aversion to one of these three options, or begin cultivating solar and wind options. Those are obviously a far stretch at this point, given how our province isn't terribly flat, nor has a seaboard (unless you want to call the Hudson Bay a seaboard), wind isn't going to generate quite as much as other locations when compared to consumption. Perhaps in the future we can get fusion commercially viable and start that up, but obviously you'll have your doomsayers in that circumstance too, despite it being very safe and producing waste that's actually manageable as opposed to fission waste.
It'd just be nice if people could understand that, if they want reliable power generation and lowered energy bills, something is going to have to give in this province. We can't just keep going on without getting another source of energy that's produced within the province, whether it be gas, nuclear or otherwise.
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as an exporter of power we compete with other exporters of power including Hydro Quebec. power consumers compare us with Hydro Quebec every time they make a purchasing decision. its all about money.
Mcguinty's bungling of power generation stretches far beyond the total fuck up with Gas Plants... and that was a monster fuck up in and of itself. its all about money.
Mcguinty and Wynne are making Bill Davis and Mike Harris look like geniuses. its all about money.
this is just the tip of the iceberg..
http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/parker-gallant-generating-losses
and at this point ... the Titanic has already hit the iceberg and its sinking into the Atlantic. Kathleen Wynne is merely shuffling the deck chairs as the province sinks.
the quality of life and quality of new opportunities in Ontario is sinking fast.
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We don't export anywhere on the same level of Quebec, and again, given the fact that almost every watt of power produced in Quebec is Hydroelectric, it will almost always be impossible to compete with Quebec until we get over out aversions towards our current options. The best we can hope for is, as I stated, people getting over their aversion to one of the options, that we might be able to start building new facilities.
And building new facilities are political suicide at this point. It is very easy to spin gas, coal or nuclear as a negative thing, during an election, and without the Hydroelectric options that Quebec has, there is no competing in this current political climate, which are the main two points, both of which you completely failed to address. Even if a right-leaning party were to get in, they would be kicking themselves out of the provincial legislature for another two decades if they tried to make new plants with any of those options.
And I know you like to think it's a clear cut issue, but it really isn't. Politicians care about votes, predominately. Anything that can get them backlash will generally be put on the backburner, or pushed out in a secretive fashion. It's hard to hide a gas power plant when nobody wants one in their backyard. If we were speaking 50 years ago, you would be right. We could, in theory, use gas and coal plants to build a vast energy export industry. You can't do that anymore. Not now, that everyone is environmentally conscious, or wanting to avoid the only option that's not going to contribute more greenhouse gasses. Not unless you want to throw an election.
I agree that this province is sinking into the ground, however. I don't think any one person would be able to stop it, though. What people want in this province hasn't been consistent with a strong economic policy since Harris got destroyed. Add that to the combo of the manufacturing sector leaving the province outright for reasons beyond the scope of this discussion, which we had mostly centered our economy around... and you get dire portents for the future of this place.
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basically, Davis/Trudeau and Harris/Chrieten did a way better job than Mcguinty/Harper and Wynne/Harper.
On December 18 2015 04:50 goiflin wrote:
What people want in this province hasn't been consistent with a strong economic policy since Harris got destroyed.
no idea what this means: the only election the PC party lost occurred in 1990 shortly after he was named leader... he was premier from 1995 to 2002.
your incorrect recounting is indicative of the left-wing media narrative of Harris' time as leader.
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But the success of their time was a product of the already established economy before they came into power, since the manufacturing industry was established before they got into power, and still booming at the time, in the face of a relatively weak Canadian dollar. Of course the liberal/CPC years are going to look worse in comparison, since that entire industry uprooted and left the province, with absolutely zero fucks to give about the bailouts they received from the federal government beforehand, moving to Mexico due to NAFTA, and destroying our economy.
And you could put Chretien back in power with Harris in tow, and it wouldn't make a difference as far as the electricity industry is concerned, nor the general economy, because again, times have changed irrespective of who was in power (no pun intended). People are extremely divisive over which type of commercially viable power generation to utilize at this point.
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there is far more to managing power generation in this province than putting up a coal plant. Mcguinty and Wynne has fucked it into the ground in 10,000 ways.
politicians are old to begin with. both those guys you mentioned are too old now. Harper and Justin couldn't carry Chretien's blackberry in his prime... he was a fantastic finance minster and an excellent prime minister... he was so damn good he made it look easy.
same iwth Harris versus Mcguinty and Wynne.
and again, you don't have your basic facts right... so umm ya.
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What basic facts? The fact that our province has been in an economic downturn since before the current regime got into power, due to the manufacturing industry, something we had centered our economy around, leaving the province for reasons beyond our control? That's not wrong at all. That's entirely factual. That's what happened.
The fact that our provincial economy was stable in the 90's, before those parties had gotten into power? That was also true. It's not like Jean Chretien went and brought manufacturing to Ontario.
The only thing that's up for debate here, is how to really resolve the issue. I don't think Wynne is going to resolve it. I also don't think Ontario voters are going to vote for a party that WOULD resolve it. People are too focused on social issues here, and are rather unwilling to make concessions to have a decent shot at a good economy. Which is a shame, because I love this province and I really don't want to have to leave it, but it's negatively impacting my future to remain in this province, because of the current economic landscape.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
lol yes. bombadier is the favorite light rails company of corrupt states.
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On December 18 2015 09:25 goiflin wrote:
What basic facts?
i'm not re-posting.. i've corrected a few of your errors. i don't see the Wynne/Trudeau combo fixing things ( as you project as well) and so i'm leaving.
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The Canadian dollar continued its slide today, closing below the 72-cent US mark for the first time since the spring of 2004.
The loonie ended the trading day at 71.68 cents US, down more than four-fifths of a cent from its close Wednesday. At one point during the day, it was down more than a full cent.
Put another way, it now costs almost $1.40 Cdn at official exchange rates to buy a single U.S. dollar. Tack on service fees charged by banks and anyone buying American currency at their local financial institution will end up paying $1.43 or so.
The loonie is on track to post its second-worst year ever, down 17 per cent since Jan. 1, and there's still a week to go, Bank of Montreal economist Doug Porter noted Thursday. "The only bigger annual decline was in the extreme conditions of 2008, when the Canadian dollar fell 18.6 per cent — a threshold I thought would never even be approached again," Porter said.
Source
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so after all this PR crap.... Canada won't hit its big announced target of 10,000 Syrians by the end of 2015. every other day there was some big news item about "131 people arriving by plane today' or "106 Syrians arrived by military plane"; all along i'm thinkin' "how are they getting 10,000 people here by the 31st"
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/12/23/canada-could-miss-goal-of-10000-syrians-refugees-arriving-this-year.html
"Canada has only a slim chance of meeting its already downsized goal of welcoming 10,000 Syrian refugees into the country by year’s end."
just lolz.
lots of PR bullshit and zero execution. 
i think we should rename our fearless leader... Justin "W" Trudeau
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At least they try to do the right thing; if they come up across barriers they didn't foresee its not a huge deal. All that matters is that they are listening to experts and modifying their policy in accordance to that. This is a pretty significant step up from the previous conservative government which would do everything in its power to act against the advice of experts (i.e. longer prison sentences for minor offences, routinely proposing bills that were deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court, their continued senseless war on marijuana which is less than 1/1000 times as threatening as alcohol or tobacco, to all of their damage on our environmental policies in order to fuel big business + the censoring of scientists).
This is what really matters in a government, their ability to hold progressive values, but to also listen to experts and modify their policy when things don't work out as they hope. Just think about how many things don't go as expected in your personal life (or anyone else's), or for businesses...mistakes will happen. I am just glad that are government has a sane response to mistakes rather than doubling down on their error
Honestly this is just a consequence of all that campaigning. That's fine, to be expected even, that they would overestimate what they could achieve. I do expect (or at least hope) that in the future, now that the campaign is over, they will make more grounded and thoughtful estimates though.
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Canada11479 Posts
I honestly don't mind. I didn't vote for the Liberals, but I did want the refugees in. However, I didn't want the Liberal's time frame to get them in because a lot of NGO's were saying the time frame was too quick to get every one settled. So the fact that we are going to get the numbers at a slower rate is fine by me. Get the job done, but get it done right.
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Out of context a bit... They are being put in hotels as a transition (typically only a day, maybe 2), and during their stay, where food is pretty expensive, they are being reimbursed. This isnt a month+ long thing for everyone who arrives, it's just until they are moved somewhere more suitable.
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according to the people i've talked to on the front lines of this debacle; the whole thing is a complete disorganized mess.
i say 90%+ of the Syrian refugees all end up in Toronto and Vancouver after their mandatory one year waiting period. almost everyone i know living in Toronto or further south of Toronto would bolt from Winnipeg, Regina and Edmonton in a second because of the cold weather.
normally, when the Canadian dollar is this low the economy in the GTA is booming. currently it is average at best. It'll be interesting to see how things go in Toronto one year from now when all these new refugees settle into the GTA. it appears my decision to leave was a good one.
onto a more cheerful topic.
if you thought Ontario was in debt now... HAHAHAHAHA
wait until Ontario can't claw back social assistance payments from single moms receiving child support from their fathers.
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2015/12/24/child-support-clawback-is-a-disgrace-cole.html
it is hilarious watching Wynne try to be little miss feminist-socialist, but she can't be; she does not have the economy to support her left wing socialist dreams
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LOL, Ontario is falling apart
The only transportation link between eastern and western canada is severed.
With Liberals in power at both the provincial and federal level Wynne and Trudeau got together for an emergency meeting and have decided to blame this bridge debacle on Mike Harris.
Between Mcguinty, Wynne, and Trudeau i want to know which one is Curly .. who is Larry and who is Moe.
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/News/379810/Newly_constructed_Nipigon_Bridge_splits_in_cold_
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EPT
