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Canadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 30

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18008 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-22 20:50:30
January 22 2016 20:47 GMT
#581
An interesting criminal court room result regarding twitter harassment.

“One man’s vulgarity is another man’s lyric”
"People must `tolerate the annoyance` of oppositional views as part of that Charter right,"

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com//news/canada/toronto-man-found-not-guilty-in-twitter-harassment-trial-widely-viewed-as-a-canadian-first
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Tephus
Profile Joined May 2011
Cascadia1754 Posts
January 22 2016 21:15 GMT
#582
Why interesting? This is common sense. You don't have the right to not be offended, and you have the right to free speech.
AdministratorTeam Liquid VP of Esports
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
January 22 2016 21:30 GMT
#583
People have gone to jail over this (outside CA i think)
© Current year.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 22 2016 21:34 GMT
#584
It's kinda interesting from a legal precedent perspective though the case itself was pretty boring.

Everyone involved in the case seem to be really unpleasant people though.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18008 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-22 22:01:37
January 22 2016 21:55 GMT
#585
On January 23 2016 06:15 Tephus wrote:
Why interesting? This is common sense. You don't have the right to not be offended, and you have the right to free speech.


the result was a legal first in Canada. its an interesting legal result. it took 3 years.

furthermore, common sense does not always prevail. he was legally barred from using the internet for 3 years based upon merely being charged with a crime. He is now permitted to use the internet again. Therefore, the ordeal contained a couple of interesting twists and turns that provides a cautionary tale for any twitter user.

The Crown's silence regarding the result was deafening.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-23 03:09:14
January 23 2016 03:08 GMT
#586
Why does it always fee like the socially maladjusted teenagers of 90's-early 20's are feeling like the most adapted people of this current decade?

No, an internet flamewar is not a big deal.

No, you do not get to use the criminal system to win your petty internet arguments.

No, people saying mean things on the internet will rarely translate into mean things being done in real life.


I hope this guy gets to sue for legal fees, because I can't possibly see how the Crown actually thought they had a case here. Sure, maybe if this guy had started insulting and targeting these women unprovoked. Not when they were doing the exact same thing to him. And not when they'd "blocked" him, and then actually took the time and effort to see what this guy was continuing to say about them and still respond to it.

At least we have a legal precedent now so that no one else (hopefully) has to waste three whole years on it.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
deadmau
Profile Joined September 2010
960 Posts
January 23 2016 03:49 GMT
#587
On January 23 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:

No, you do not get to use the criminal system to win your petty internet arguments.



These people are well-balanced, reasonable, and carry an abundance of logic.

No way in hell would they abuse the system to get their way. /s
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
January 23 2016 06:21 GMT
#588
http://globalnews.ca/news/2471195/trudeau-says-men-women-shouldnt-be-afraid-to-be-feminists/
don't be afraid of feminist guys, our PM is one himself.
© Current year.
Essbee
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada2371 Posts
January 23 2016 07:36 GMT
#589
What would it take for the economy to get back on track? I am in Korea but working as a Canadian and would love for the CAD to get back up... it's painful to transfer 2500$ only to get around 2080 KRW.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
January 23 2016 08:39 GMT
#590
On January 23 2016 16:36 Essbee wrote:
What would it take for the economy to get back on track? I am in Korea but working as a Canadian and would love for the CAD to get back up... it's painful to transfer 2500$ only to get around 2080 KRW.

Natural resources have to shoot back up.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18008 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-24 00:12:17
January 23 2016 23:51 GMT
#591
On January 23 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Why does it always fee like the socially maladjusted teenagers of 90's-early 20's are feeling like the most adapted people of this current decade?

No, an internet flamewar is not a big deal.

No, you do not get to use the criminal system to win your petty internet arguments.

No, people saying mean things on the internet will rarely translate into mean things being done in real life.


I hope this guy gets to sue for legal fees, because I can't possibly see how the Crown actually thought they had a case here. Sure, maybe if this guy had started insulting and targeting these women unprovoked. Not when they were doing the exact same thing to him. And not when they'd "blocked" him, and then actually took the time and effort to see what this guy was continuing to say about them and still respond to it.

At least we have a legal precedent now so that no one else (hopefully) has to waste three whole years on it.


Actually , he used a hashtag with one of the complainants names to sort of circumvent the block and to try to get them to notice what he was saying about them on twitter. When you read the Toronto Star's version of the events it was a lot more of a "close call" by the judge.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/01/22/verdict-in-alleged-harassment-of-toronto-feminists-could-change-the-twitterverse.html

to your point, the Star correrctly mentions how this is a precedent setting case. it is total crap that the guy could not use the internet for 3 years. total bull.

Re: ur internet flamewar comment :All of the communication alleged to be harassment was entirely through
Twitter. However, their dispute began when she rejected a project proposal of his during face-to-face meetings. They have work history.

I think the judge made the right call. I'm glad he has a reasonable knowledge of how Twitter works, Otherwise, this could've gone sideways.

When reading The Post's version of a court case and then reading the Star's version of the same court case.. i'm left wondering if its really 2 different cases
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-24 03:33:37
January 24 2016 03:31 GMT
#592
On January 24 2016 08:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 23 2016 12:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Why does it always fee like the socially maladjusted teenagers of 90's-early 20's are feeling like the most adapted people of this current decade?

No, an internet flamewar is not a big deal.

No, you do not get to use the criminal system to win your petty internet arguments.

No, people saying mean things on the internet will rarely translate into mean things being done in real life.


I hope this guy gets to sue for legal fees, because I can't possibly see how the Crown actually thought they had a case here. Sure, maybe if this guy had started insulting and targeting these women unprovoked. Not when they were doing the exact same thing to him. And not when they'd "blocked" him, and then actually took the time and effort to see what this guy was continuing to say about them and still respond to it.

At least we have a legal precedent now so that no one else (hopefully) has to waste three whole years on it.


Actually , he used a hashtag with one of the complainants names to sort of circumvent the block and to try to get them to notice what he was saying about them on twitter. When you read the Toronto Star's version of the events it was a lot more of a "close call" by the judge.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/01/22/verdict-in-alleged-harassment-of-toronto-feminists-could-change-the-twitterverse.html

to your point, the Star correrctly mentions how this is a precedent setting case. it is total crap that the guy could not use the internet for 3 years. total bull.

Re: ur internet flamewar comment :All of the communication alleged to be harassment was entirely through
Twitter. However, their dispute began when she rejected a project proposal of his during face-to-face meetings. They have work history.

I think the judge made the right call. I'm glad he has a reasonable knowledge of how Twitter works, Otherwise, this could've gone sideways.

When reading The Post's version of a court case and then reading the Star's version of the same court case.. i'm left wondering if its really 2 different cases

Much more worthwhile to actually read the judge's write-up, if you have the time. Page 29-34 basically detail how this whole thing started, and it was entirely amicable about him doing (free) design work for an organization she was with.

Page 34-47 basically detail every typical petty internet flame war you've ever seen. This is Guthrie's part of the case, and it's basically her "harassing" him (AKA insulting him on the internet) as much as he is her. Not to say any of them are better than the other, but she's the one that brought this to court (although, noteworthy that he threatened the same to other people online - key word threatened).

Page 48-55 detail Reilly's case, and the whole things even stupider than Guthrie's. It basically starts when she tells Elliot "stop responding to things I publicly broadcast on Twitter", and goes straight downhill from there. But it does contain this glorious bit of commentary from the Judge:

During August the dispute escalated, as Mr. Elliott defended an open right to reply on Twitter and read others tweets. Twitter could have had a more eloquent defender, as some who joined in pointed out to him about his tone. At one point he tweeted “Snark, How fat IS your ass? #TOPOLI.” Ms. Reilly, though not the first to use vulgar language, had by then retweeted a comment by someone named @criticalbritt, who told Mr. Elliott of a wish that “you’d disappear up your own arse you supercilious fart golem”. This is the register of language sometimes used by both those arguing for an open Twitter and those wanting to prevent further attacks on women.


The Judge's analysis of both women's charges against him are fairly succinct, and can be summed up in a couple of his paragraphs. Namely, that Guthrie's fear was not reasonable, and that Reilly's actions show a lack of fear.

On Guthrie

The main premise that I find unreasonable is her perception that she could tweet about topics but not be exposed to his tweets (however spurious and invalid) about the same topic – even if the topic was him.

All of Mr. Elliott’s tweets at issue were responses to the attacks on him that I have listed, or a return to the original dinner and the Bendilin Spurr dispute. I say “all” his tweets because Crown counsel does not rely on the content of any one tweet to suggest harassment. His not letting go of a topic is stubborn and may be considered childish, but it does not provide a basis for a recipient of his tweets to fear danger, especially if the recipient is herself still making negative comments about the sender.

On Reilly

As Ms. Guthrie testified, there is no such thing as a perfect victim. But Ms. Reilly’s retweeting of forceful, insulting, unconfirmed and ultimately inaccurate attacks suggesting pedophilia...raises doubt in my mind to whether she was afraid of Mr. Elliott. There is no suggestion of fear in her communication.

Fear can be of psychological harm, as Crown counsel submits, but that is not the fear that Ms. Reilly was expressing to Twitter or in her testimony.

...Her fear that he might have been at the Cadillac Lounge and that he could escalate to offline and real-life harassment (though she had no idea what he would do) is based on her view that there is privacy in Twitter and that one account holder can dictate what another account holder tweets. But on the whole of this evidence, relating to both her and Ms. Guthrie, Twitter is not private, by definition and in its essence.



So really, not a very close case at all, and the entirety of it is 3 idiots on the internet and 2 taking it to court.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18008 Posts
January 24 2016 04:31 GMT
#593
thx for going through all that and summarizing.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
January 25 2016 15:45 GMT
#594
Wow, TIL that Alberta has a flat provincial income tax rate of 10%.

No wonder the budget is shot to hell. Why wouldn't the province at least have a progressive tax rate? And before anyone retorts with a "but the tax rate made business/economy good in Alberta", we can just head that off with a "no, expensive oil did, otherwise their economy wouldn't be fucked right now".

I feel like Alberta kind of dug their own hole there :/

Oh well, oil will come back up in another 20 years and they can spend their money in silly ways again.
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada18008 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-25 18:29:34
January 25 2016 17:26 GMT
#595
what i'd like to see is all forms of income tax eliminated and the GST cranked up to make up for the difference.
excuse me while i put on my firebat flame suit.

and in other news.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/newsalert-jury-reached-verdict-trial-toronto-cop-charged-171732795.html

he should've been convicted of 2nd degree murder. at least, he is not declared 100% innocent though.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/james-forcillo-verdict-1.3414974

Forcillo is still not in jail though. and he is not yet convicted of 2nd degree murder.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
January 27 2016 23:39 GMT
#596
Maybe a stupid question, but does a weak canadian dollar have any effect on the non-global market? Like for every day grocery purchases and such?
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
Tephus
Profile Joined May 2011
Cascadia1754 Posts
January 27 2016 23:42 GMT
#597
Everything is a global market. Its winter, so most of our groceries aren't local. When they are local, the producers can choose to sell them locally, or to the states, which will pay more for them due to the week dollar.
AdministratorTeam Liquid VP of Esports
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
January 28 2016 00:13 GMT
#598
On January 28 2016 08:39 Dark_Chill wrote:
Maybe a stupid question, but does a weak canadian dollar have any effect on the non-global market? Like for every day grocery purchases and such?

It pretty much affects everything you buy because the manufacturing or the raw material or design are done elsewhere. You're getting some pretty serious inflation on goods compared to a couple years ago. Just look at the price of an iphone.
© Current year.
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
January 28 2016 00:35 GMT
#599
So when different countries "play" with their currency to devalue it, they tend to be countries whose economies thrive on exports and such? That way they're not affected by price changes locally and can benefit from it?
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-28 01:08:44
January 28 2016 01:00 GMT
#600
An example would be China or Canada. What do you mean price changes are not affected locally? They benefit by making their goods seem cheaper as strong currencies like in USD would be buying them. Conversely imported goods are more expensive.

Canadian consumers are certainly not benefiting from this.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/canada-inflation-climbs-on-higher-food-prices-1453473106

Rogers Bell and Telus add $5/month to renewals and new subscribers citing currency issues
http://globalnews.ca/news/2480259/rogers-wireless-customers-face-substantial-price-hike-next-month/
Even domestic services are squeezing more out of consumers.
© Current year.
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