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On March 19 2015 05:02 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 04:49 WhiteDog wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. You should tell that to Plansix and GreenHorizons really. lol I've just been popping in to see if we have moved passed men thinking 'ignore it' was actually a solution. Or if it kept going down the path of women being biologically deficient. Or if the whole "it's just as bad for us" was still floating around. I don't see how this has dragged on this long. I don't expect anyone to have any realizations here.
I think this is still going on because it is a very ambiguous issue. There are very specific questions that don't have definite answers, like "Where is the line between joking around and harassment?" or maybe "Do men and women process harassment differently or is that a gender stereotype?" or maybe even "How do we define harassment?"
This has a lot to do with painting broad strokes across a lot of individual particles. The specific nuances of harassment and how individual people process them are difficult to compound into a simplified paradigm. The problem here is not so much logic/solution based, but more ideologically-based. It would be almost impossible to find reliable numbers that accurately portray the human experience in regard to harassment, and so most of the 'science' is rubbish, and we are left to rely almost entirely on first-hand experiences and what we hear or believe to true. This is going to inevitably lead to an impossible gridlock of opinions, because there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt if what you're saying is true or not.
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On March 19 2015 00:34 Dagobert wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 00:18 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 00:11 Hryul wrote:
no, but it's quite pointless to say "ehrmagod, wymyn so oppressed!!!!1111" when 99% of the population was oppressed. As someone who studied history and was trained to teach it to others: No. That argument is piss poor and there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the oppression of women was not only cultural, but also legally authorized through out history. There were numerous laws and institutions created for the sole purpose of oppressing women through most of human history. To argue otherwise borderlines on delusional. Let's see. I've divided your text into sections: Appeal to authority and appeal to authority: Opinion. Opinion and nominalization of not only one UNSUBSTANTIATED claim, but two. Numerous more unsubstantiated claims. Insult. Exactly where did you refute his point?
This guy accurately assessed the quality of your posting, Plansix! But that doesnt matter because:
On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real.
If this thread isn't going to be closed - and I think maybe it should be - perhaps somebody has a suggestion of where they think the line should be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not? What people find offensive is, after all, extremely subjective.
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On March 19 2015 05:02 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 04:49 WhiteDog wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. You should tell that to Plansix and GreenHorizons really. You can feel free to report any of my posts and see if the mods feel the same way. I have been pretty invested in talking about harassment in gaming and the documentary the entire time.
Why should I report you ? Your posts are not insulting, but I'm saying you, and GreenHorizons, are taking all this way too personnal. It's okay, keep cool. People have also the right to disagree with your points, and if it was not the case, there wouldn't be much of a discussion in any topic.
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On March 19 2015 05:24 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 00:34 Dagobert wrote:On March 19 2015 00:18 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 00:11 Hryul wrote:
no, but it's quite pointless to say "ehrmagod, wymyn so oppressed!!!!1111" when 99% of the population was oppressed. As someone who studied history and was trained to teach it to others: No. That argument is piss poor and there is OVERWHELMING evidence that the oppression of women was not only cultural, but also legally authorized through out history. There were numerous laws and institutions created for the sole purpose of oppressing women through most of human history. To argue otherwise borderlines on delusional. Let's see. I've divided your text into sections: Appeal to authority and appeal to authority: Opinion. Opinion and nominalization of not only one UNSUBSTANTIATED claim, but two. Numerous more unsubstantiated claims. Insult. Exactly where did you refute his point? This guy accurately assessed the quality of your posting, Plansix! But that doesnt matter because: Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. If this thread isn't going to be closed - and I think maybe it should be - perhaps somebody has a suggestion of where they think the line should be drawn between what is acceptable and what is not? What people find offensive is, after all, extremely subjective.
Well, I just posted above, so I already gave my opinion on that.
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On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real.
We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world.
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On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world.
If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female?
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On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female?
Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject).
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On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject).
Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism.
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On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism.
I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading.
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On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old.
didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago?
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On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago?
Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear.
Edit: I also think Falling is a man as well and he talks about being feminist.
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On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading.
lol, you totally went to Google.
On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear.
I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to?
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On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to?
Don't come here with that logic of yours. This thread has been a perfect testament to the double-think the human mind is capable of.
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On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to?
Men who say feminism isn't about equality and try to paint is as some radical movement that is set on oppressing men are hilarious. I find them to be comical and I find their discussions on the matter much like whites in the US claiming that all these claims are racism are over blown. Its people who do not have to deal with the issue and never will telling those who do "its not a big deal". If people want to point out specific feminists that are too extreme or aggressive, I will happily talk about that. But people who point to Tumblr and a couple radical feminist who wrote books as proof the entire concept is about repressing men are tiresome and dull at this point.
But we are way off topic and this thread is not about me or you.
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On March 19 2015 05:21 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:02 GreenHorizons wrote:On March 19 2015 04:49 WhiteDog wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. You should tell that to Plansix and GreenHorizons really. lol I've just been popping in to see if we have moved passed men thinking 'ignore it' was actually a solution. Or if it kept going down the path of women being biologically deficient. Or if the whole "it's just as bad for us" was still floating around. I don't see how this has dragged on this long. I don't expect anyone to have any realizations here. I think this is still going on because it is a very ambiguous issue. There are very specific questions that don't have definite answers, like " Where is the line between joking around and harassment?" or maybe " Do men and women process harassment differently or is that a gender stereotype?" or maybe even " How do we define harassment?" This has a lot to do with painting broad strokes across a lot of individual particles. The specific nuances of harassment and how individual people process them are difficult to compound into a simplified paradigm. The problem here is not so much logic/solution based, but more ideologically-based. It would be almost impossible to find reliable numbers that accurately portray the human experience in regard to harassment, and so most of the 'science' is rubbish, and we are left to rely almost entirely on first-hand experiences and what we hear or believe to true. This is going to inevitably lead to an impossible gridlock of opinions, because there is no way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt if what you're saying is true or not.
I think a lot of the last ten pages or so has been a discussion of whether one group's opinions outweigh the others in this 'gridlock'.
For example, should we pay more attention to people who are more easily offended on the basis that they suffer the most from abusive individuals? Or should we pay more attention to the target demographic of the game in question? The latter is probably the more attractive for that target audience, and by extension the developers, who don't want to lose customers by overly restricting their experience. Perhaps that's part of the 'problem'?
For me as an individual it's a non-issue. I like the competitive atmosphere and I can see in Dota 2 that Valve are trying hard to balance the punishments so that you benefit from being well mannered but losing your temper every now and again is not going to get you punished so hard that it ruins your experience. I think the impersonal solution of punishing people based on how many reports they have received + possibly an automatic language check is a more effective system than hiring individuals to pass value judgments on the things people say.
On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago?
Don't worry, he regularly references his 'female friend' as an authority (he will dismiss any reference you make to women who disagree with her, though).
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On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to?
I don't think that's the issue as much as the opponents (for lack of a better word off the top of my head) to feminism thinking they have a comprehensive view of what women face. I think the males in support of feminism recognize that can't be had without a variety of female perspectives which simply can't be found here (in discussion form, there just aren't enough women on TL willing to voice their opinions on the matter to get a variety of female opinion). Looking through the thread you can find at least a dozen different male perspectives but only one or two from women (that I noticed anyway). Although people still refer to you as "that guy" so...
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On March 19 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:On March 19 2015 04:14 Falling wrote:
@bardtown
If you have no personal stake in the matter, then you should have no problem dropping the point and letting the thread move on. Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition. The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to? Men who say feminism isn't about equality and try to paint is as some radical movement that is set on oppressing men are hilarious. I find them to be comical and I find their discussions on the matter much like whites in the US claiming that all these claims are racism are over blown. Its people who do not have to deal with the issue and never will telling those who do "its not a big deal". If people want to point out specific feminists that are too extreme or aggressive, I will happily talk about that. But people who point to Tumblr and a couple radical feminist who wrote books as proof the entire concept is about repressing men are tiresome and dull at this point. But we are way off topic and this thread is not about me or you.
No, this thread is about all of us. And also, if it's possible for men to be feminists, then men should also be able to debate the merits of feminism, just like with any other philosophy. If your only argument is that all people are equal in principle, that's just called equality. If you're talking about a female-centric counterbalance to a male-centric society, then you're talking about feminism, which operates on the assumption that there is an institutionalized inequality between males and females. If there is such an institutionalization, then it would have to be torn down by a radical counter-movement. However, if such an institution-sponsored inequality is only theoretical in nature, but there is a material counter-movement, then you have a radical reactionary movement to tear down an imaginary enemy.
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On March 19 2015 06:16 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 04:36 bardtown wrote:
[quote]
Look at the man keeping me down, feminists have infiltrated the administration, etc. I'm perfectly happy to move on; I think the point is sufficiently made that painting women as an oppressed group requires some justification beyond just unqualified intuition.
The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to? Men who say feminism isn't about equality and try to paint is as some radical movement that is set on oppressing men are hilarious. I find them to be comical and I find their discussions on the matter much like whites in the US claiming that all these claims are racism are over blown. Its people who do not have to deal with the issue and never will telling those who do "its not a big deal". If people want to point out specific feminists that are too extreme or aggressive, I will happily talk about that. But people who point to Tumblr and a couple radical feminist who wrote books as proof the entire concept is about repressing men are tiresome and dull at this point. But we are way off topic and this thread is not about me or you. No, this thread is about all of us. And also, if it's possible for men to be feminists, then men should also be able to debate the merits of feminism, just like with any other philosophy. If your only argument is that all people are equal in principle, that's just called equality. If you're talking about a female-centric counterbalance to a male-centric society, then you're talking about feminism, which operates on the assumption that there is an institutionalized inequality between males and females. If there is such an institutionalization, then it would have to be torn down by a radical counter-movement. However, if such an institution-sponsored inequality is only theoretical in nature, but there is a material counter-movement, then you have a radical reactionary movement to tear down an imaginary enemy.
You wrote a lot of words that basically boil down to: Feminism isn't about equality. And you're wrong. Just like addressing racism is about equality. Its not about making women better, its about making sure they are equal to men and that men are not pressured to feel "superior" to women. Terry Crew's breaks it down better than I can and hes like 20 time more awesome than me.
http://www.damemagazine.com/2015/03/06/terry-crews-feminist-millions-have-died-because-male-pride
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"A comprehensive view of what women face" What does it even mean ? Do you think A WOMAN, with her subjectivity, is better placed than any of us to understand WHAT WOMEN face ? It has nothing to do with personnal experience, it's a collective reality that you can, and need to understand through statistical data and knowledge, not through the perspective of A PERSON and even more when talking about a group such as "women" that has no unified experiences. "What women face" doesn't exist, there's no common experience that all women face, aside maybe periods ? Tell me what's in common between your white girl-friends and the experience of a black girl living in the poorest neighborhood in the US ?
Feel like a rather immature vision of reality really.
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On March 19 2015 06:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2015 06:16 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:51 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:33 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:28 ninazerg wrote:On March 19 2015 05:26 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:11 ninazerg wrote:
[quote]
The Matriarchy is real. We prefer Feminist Illuminati. It more fitting to the role we play in the world. If you don't mind me asking, because I'd rather not read though this whole thread, are you a female? Lol, No. I am a guy who happens to also think the issues women face are real and feminism helps everyone. So much like Terry Crew, I am a feminist(though I could stand to read more on the subject). Well, you should definitely read some stuff by Mary Daly and Andrea Dworkin, and after that, you'll pretty much know where you stand on the subject of modern feminism. I've heard of both of them and I am aware of their views. I am pretty sure I know where I stand. But thanks for the suggested reading. lol, you totally went to Google. On March 19 2015 05:47 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 05:40 travis wrote:On March 19 2015 02:35 Plansix wrote:On March 19 2015 02:32 GreenHorizons wrote:
I wish everyone's moms, sisters, daughters, and wives could read what people are posting here and respond themselves. I'm pretty sure there would be some interesting responses.
There is nothing quite as amusing a a group of men talking about women's issues and feminism. It really never gets old. didn't you just say you're a man a few posts ago? Yep and I think GreenHorizon is as well. What is your point? I have never stated anything disparaging feminism or claiming it wasn't about equality. Those were specifically the people I was mocking, to be clear. I don't understand your logic here. Men who agree with feminism are allowed to discuss feminism but men who disagree with feminism aren't allowed to? Men who say feminism isn't about equality and try to paint is as some radical movement that is set on oppressing men are hilarious. I find them to be comical and I find their discussions on the matter much like whites in the US claiming that all these claims are racism are over blown. Its people who do not have to deal with the issue and never will telling those who do "its not a big deal". If people want to point out specific feminists that are too extreme or aggressive, I will happily talk about that. But people who point to Tumblr and a couple radical feminist who wrote books as proof the entire concept is about repressing men are tiresome and dull at this point. But we are way off topic and this thread is not about me or you. No, this thread is about all of us. And also, if it's possible for men to be feminists, then men should also be able to debate the merits of feminism, just like with any other philosophy. If your only argument is that all people are equal in principle, that's just called equality. If you're talking about a female-centric counterbalance to a male-centric society, then you're talking about feminism, which operates on the assumption that there is an institutionalized inequality between males and females. If there is such an institutionalization, then it would have to be torn down by a radical counter-movement. However, if such an institution-sponsored inequality is only theoretical in nature, but there is a material counter-movement, then you have a radical reactionary movement to tear down an imaginary enemy. You wrote a lot of words that basically boil down to: Feminism isn't about equality. And you're wrong. Just like addressing racism is about equality. Its not about making women better, its about making sure they are equal to men and that men are not pressured to feel "superior" to women. Terry Crew's breaks it down better than I can and hes like 20 time more awesome than me. http://www.damemagazine.com/2015/03/06/terry-crews-feminist-millions-have-died-because-male-pride
Are you even reading what you're writing?
ADDRESSING RACISM is about equality
Addressing sexism is about equality (which I said)
Feminism is not about equality. I mean, you can totally link more actors' opinions. I mean, I can link Madonna saying she's not a feminist but a humanist if you want to go that route. I mean, what do I know, I'm just a dumb woman, right?
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