EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 9
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
| ||
|
Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
| ||
|
farvacola
United States18813 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:00 tadL wrote: You can cure malaria. Give every family 10 injections and it stops. And we have not. Not because we would not be able to produce this amount. But they cant pay and they are not for example America that dictates the price for a cure like for example when one idiot spread anthrax in the usa. How many got infected? not even 10? You remember only the German company Bayer had the cure for it. But America was not willing to pay the market prize and dictated a prize there are willing to pay. And if Bayer would not agree to this USA would ignore the license and start to produce it by their own. And now remember that America was not willing to give Africa the licence to produce something to just keep their people alive for some time. Not even to cure them... Do you have any authority on the subject of international public health? Do you have any sources to back up your claims? If not, you'll have to excuse my reticence in taking the word of an Internet poster on the matter of wiping out Malaria for granted. On November 28 2014 08:03 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If the resources used to combat ISIS right now was used to combat malaria you can bet your ass that more lives will be saved. Of course this assumes that combating malaria involves the african governments where malaria is most prevalent to recognise the danger of malaria spreading and overtaking their own form of government upending their own corrupted nespotic croney governmence. The point is not that diverting resources used to fight ISIS to Malaria aid in Africa would not have a positive impact; it most certainly would. The point is that saying that first world countries don't help Africa is nonsense, and to point at Africa when faced with the problem of battling ISIS is nothing more than misdirection. | ||
|
lord_nibbler
Germany591 Posts
On November 28 2014 07:47 farvacola wrote: You have no idea what you're talking about if you think that stopping the spread of infectious disease in Africa is something we can do but haven't. No he is not! Spend 2$ for every African on mosquito nets and you can get rid of 98% of malaria deaths. But we, the rest of the world, decided that 2$ is clearly to much for a bunch of negros... | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
| ||
|
farvacola
United States18813 Posts
Sure, that sounds good, but in not addressing how it is we are to distribute those nets or prevent militias from seizing the nets of civilians, you are making it clear that you don't know much about how difficult it is to send effective aid to Africa. You are free to consider the heavy American presence on this forum a "problem," but in doing so alongside what is clearly an immature line of thinking, you end up sounding nothin more than xenophobic. Besides, this was about European nations stepping up to the plate anyhow. | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:03 farvacola wrote: Do you have any authority on the subject of international public health? Do you have any sources to back up your claims? If not, you'll have to excuse my reticence in taking the word of an Internet poster on the matter of wiping out Malaria for granted. The point is not that diverting resources used to fight ISIS to Malaria aid in Africa would not have a positive impact; it most certainly would. The point is that saying that first world countries don't help Africa is nonsense, and to point at Africa when faced with the problem of battling ISIS is nothing more than misdirection. You can prove my claim easy. Google god damn. Get informations by your own and please not CNN. The anthrax story is true. I can understand that American mass media did not pick it up. Selling a story that says "USA acted like scumbags" is not that popular. Oh wait it happend kind of http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-0110240283oct24-story.html 4 seconds with google "USA forces bayer to sell Cipro cheaper" gg...ofc they do not mention all. but hey at least you had the chance to get the information too. That America was willing to shit on international patent law is hard to find on US media sides. but if you google carefully you should find that too. look it may sound like superficial anti Americanism. but i am not, if i talk negative about the usa its well deserved. so please dont get offended but i understand its hard. to make a simple test. If you think about 9/11 what do you remember? The day when usa removed the democratic elected president of peru because he was not the puppet usa wanted to have? Do you think about this at all? And if we really wanted to help Africa we could do. But we don't. If the debeers diamond minds would get attacked we would indeed solve this really fast ^^ ps: Back to topic Europe maybe? Well I try to understand france but i am not french. Their mentality is totaly different and I love it. My girlfriend is french. And to the Brits. I dont know, sometimes I think they dont really want to be a part of Europe but they do not want to miss out the profit side? I dont know its strange. Also different culture that I dont understand. But I still hope I could help with Germany | ||
|
Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:11 farvacola wrote: Besides, this was about European nations stepping up to the plate anyhow. to be honest why should germany step up to the plate? The USA made the mess so let them handle it, that's how I see it. I was happy when the german government refused to help in the Iraq war and I see no reason for us to fix all the shit now after the US pulled out of Iraq after destabilizing the country. | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
I see it the same. Sometimes its good that we have Merkel that is just scared to loose the vote. And as the majority of germany was not interested in this bullshit we did not fight. Its good to see democracy can work ps: or did you finally found the weapons of mass destruction? | ||
|
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:08 lord_nibbler wrote: No he is not! Spend 2$ for every African on mosquito nets and you can get rid of 98% of malaria deaths. But we, the rest of the world, decided that 2$ is clearly to much for a bunch of negros... A lot has already been spent on malaria control: ![[image loading]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/72070179/malaria%20spend.PNG) Source: WHO On November 28 2014 08:28 tadL wrote: You can prove my claim easy. Google god damn. Get informations by your own and please not CNN. The anthrax story is true. I can understand that American mass media did not pick it up. Selling a story that says "USA acted like scumbags" is not that popular. Oh wait it happend kind of http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-0110240283oct24-story.html 4 seconds with google "USA forces bayer to sell Cipro cheaper" gg...ofc they do not mention all. but hey at least you had the chance to get the information too. That America was willing to shit on international patent law is hard to find on US media sides. but if you google carefully you should find that too. look it may sound like superficial anti Americanism. but i am not, if i talk negative about the usa its well deserved. so please dont get offended but i understand its hard. to make a simple test. If you think about 9/11 what do you remember? The day when usa removed the democratic elected president of peru because he was not the puppet usa wanted to have? Do you think about this at all? And if we really wanted to help Africa we could do. But we don't. If the debeers diamond minds would get attacked we would indeed solve this really fast ^^ ps: Back to topic Europe maybe? Well I try to understand france but i am not french. Their mentality is totaly different and I love it. My girlfriend is french. And to the Brits. I dont know, sometimes I think they dont really want to be a part of Europe but they do not want to miss out the profit side? I dont know its strange. Also different culture that I dont understand. But I still hope I could help with Germany On the patented drug issue, yes the US drove a hard bargain with Bayer of Cipro, but we are usually paying the market price for Euro drugs. You can also find examples of the US selling patented drugs cheaply. A few years ago there was a large agreement regarding the pricing of AIDS drugs to poor nations. Prior to that, there were other deals as well. Edit: Also, for the Cipro deal the US Gov. was buying to stockpile in case of an emergency. So what it bought at a discount was additive to Bayer's bottom line as the company could still sell Cipro normally at its normal price through normal channels at normal volumes. | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
And please take some more effort than blast out WTH graphic that gives raw numbers but just misses to tell that a lot of money does not even reach the people. And I did not say there is no help. But if the world would take it serious it would be not the problem that it still is. Just throwing money at it without control does not help as history has proven. | ||
|
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On November 28 2014 11:13 tadL wrote: You call extortion a discount? aha...as if Bayer had a choice, they had to sell it cheap of USA would take it anyway. So please don't mix things up. And the discount is a joke. They can barley get enough. If Africa would be able to dictate the discount on Aids drugs I would agree on comparing this. And please take some more effort than blast out WTH graphic that gives raw numbers but just misses to tell that a lot of money does not even reach the people. And I did not say there is no help. But if the world would take it serious it would be not the problem that it still is. Just throwing money at it without control does not help as history has proven. Not sure why you're making such a huge deal out of the Cipro deal. Call it extortion if you want, but it was for a special stockpile in response to a terrorist attack. It didn't hurt Bayer, it just meant that Bayer couldn't make as much money off of the stockpile as it would have wanted to. Canada made a similar demand too, threatening to suspend Bayer's patent if they didn't get a discount. The AIDS discounts can be substantial. Sometimes the patents are licensed out for free to generic manufacturers and the end cost can be something like 10% of what the rich world pays. In other cases, governments have decided to ignore patents (India does this for a variety of drugs) and make generics locally. It's a messy issue though. No one wants poor people to not have life saving medicine, but someone has to pay for the R&D. While it is true that not all the malaria money reaches people, in other cases the people refuse to use the help. Mosquito nets often make residences uncomfortable and so people do not use them. The general logistics of getting medicine or equipment to an entire continent isn't easy either. | ||
|
Doublemint
Austria8366 Posts
On November 28 2014 06:27 A3th3r wrote: My impression of Eastern Europe is, it seems like Austria, Poland, Croatia, Belarus, Estonia, etc are basically accepted as up&coming factory areas for Germany/France to make Audi's, BMW's & Peugeot's. My brother when on a trip to Croatia with his wife & kid while working on his Master's Degree. That was the critical commentary he had of the place, as I understood it. On a trip to Switzerland, the snowboarding was phenomenal, like something out of a Shaun White RedBull ad (especially in Zurich), but their 'pointedly neutral' stance on world affairs makes me nervous. I don't trust the people of a country that can't commit to a political framework wholeheartedly. Economically Switzerland is basically 'tourist trap' status. They contribute nothing to Europe's 'Body Politic' & are all heavily armed. They're basically the rednecks of Europe! I generally agree with the whole Eastern European sentiment. But what's Austria doing there? We are way too extensive to manufacture for those companies on a major scale. Only thing we do is build engines for Bmw because oft high skilled workers/know how and tax incentives/relations. And to your second point. What's scary for others is dabbling in other people's affairs to further one's interest. An no, they certanly are not what you describe them to be. The biggest point of critizism I could think of is their banking system. Though with more Integration into the EU over time this inevitably will change. | ||
|
tadL
Croatia679 Posts
Not sure why you're making such a huge deal out of the Cipro deal. Call it extortion if you want, but it was for a special stockpile in response to a terrorist attack. It didn't hurt Bayer, it just meant that Bayer couldn't make as much money off of the stockpile as it would have wanted to. Canada made a similar demand too, threatening to suspend Bayer's patent if they didn't get a discount. first it was extortion. Calling it different is just a joke. It was not a terrorist attack. Even your news should have broadcast that too. It was a retarded citizen that finally wanted to test his things in Real life. Like the kids that went to school and shoot people. Strange that this is not called a terrorist attack. They killed overall more people. It was anthrax from the USA. Your own retarded people did it and thats it. And FBI was forced to blame AlKaida. So what happend USA lied again to the world to get what they want. And sorry I think thats terrible. And ofc it hurted Bayer. If a company gets less money it hurts. And not just Bayer. All that speculated that Bayer will make the great deal just as one example? It hurted Germany because the country got less tax incomes too. Whats that for a logic? It did not hurt the USA yes. And so its ok? And threatening patents is ok? If anyone does this with American patents the hell breaks out. But as other have to do it its ok, dont make a big deal out of it? Pure arrogance. But its nice to see the prejudices of Americans get proven over and over again. i guess you are able to google for yourself about antrahx...maybe... http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2008/08/die-anthrax-attacke-beweist-911-war.html ps: did not see given out the patent to the poors. Maybe I am wrong so please link. from my knowledge its still the same. The poor countrys asked for permission and got refused because this is against the principles of market economy "goerge bush jr" | ||
|
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On November 28 2014 12:46 tadL wrote: first it was extortion. Calling it different is just a joke. It was not a terrorist attack. Even your news should have broadcast that too. It was a retarded citizen that finally wanted to test his things in Real life. Like the kids that went to school and shoot people. Strange that this is not called a terrorist attack. They killed overall more people. It was anthrax from the USA. Your own retarded people did it and thats it. And FBI was forced to blame AlKaida. So what happend USA lied again to the world to get what they want. And sorry I think thats terrible. And ofc it hurted Bayer. If a company gets less money it hurts. And not just Bayer. All that speculated that Bayer will make the great deal just as one example? Whats that for a logic? It did not hurt the USA yes. And so its ok? And threatening patents is ok? If anyone does this with American patents the hell breaks out. But as other have to do it its ok, dont make a big deal out of it? Pure arrogance. But its nice to see the prejudices of Americans get proven over and over again. i guess you are able to google for yourself about antrahx...maybe... http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.de/2008/08/die-anthrax-attacke-beweist-911-war.html ps: did not see given out the patent to the poors. Maybe I am wrong so please link. from my knowledge its still the same. The poor countrys asked for permission and got refused because this is against the principles of market economy "goerge bush jr" Just because Al Qaeda wasn't involved doesn't mean it wasn't terrorism. The Boston Marathon bombing is considered a case of domestic terrorism, for example. Bayer made more money because of the deal, just less than they would have liked. This was a new sale for Bayer, a new revenue stream. I'm not arguing that the US didn't play hardball, but this was a month after 9/11, an exceptional circumstance and you shouldn't act like this is normal US operation. Other drug companies offered similar drugs for free, in exchange for FDA approval for anthrax treatment. People mess with US patents all the time. India routinely breaks US drug patents (article). Major trade partners like China routinely give few shits about US patents / copyrights. On discounts: Two years ago, Pfizer (PFE) granted a free license to a nonprofit group to develop the company's AIDS drug, Selzentry, for use in another experimental gel. Last month a GlaxoSmithKline (GSK) affiliate said it will give away licenses to some of the AIDS drugs it's developing in 60 of the world's least-developed nations where 80 percent of people with HIV live. At the AIDS meeting in Vienna, Unitaid, another nonprofit, said it is discussing the creation of a "patent pool" with Gilead, Merck (MRK), and Johnson & Johnson (JNJ) to license drugs in development to generic makers who could sell medicines at lower prices than possible for the large companies. "We're talking about the how rather than the whether" companies will participate, said Ellen 't Hoen, Unitaid's executive director. Source Prior, as well as since, we've been offering money to help poor countries buy the drugs: The President's Emergency Plan For AIDS Relief (PEPFAR/Emergency Plan) was a commitment of $15 billion over five years (2003–2008) from United States President George W. Bush to fight the global HIV/AIDS pandemic. The program initially aimed to provide antiretroviral treatment (ART) to 2 million HIV-infected people in resource-limited settings, to prevent 7 million new infections, and to support care for 10 million people (the "2–7–10 goals") by 2010. PEPFAR increased the number of Africans receiving ART from 50,000 at the start of the initiative in 2004 to at least 1.2 million in early 2008.[1][2] PEPFAR has been called the largest health initiative ever initiated by one country to address a disease. The budget presented by President Bush for the fiscal year 2008 included a request for $5.4 billion for PEPFAR. Source | ||
zatic
Zurich15306 Posts
On November 28 2014 05:45 tadL wrote: Germany is doing fine with wars too. We sell tons of land mines for example and we sell some of the finest prostheses out there. Germany is interested in Wars like so many other countries. The fight for resources is real and even Germans went out for it. And this should not be possible considering the constitution. And this scares me a lot. Can you please stop with this bullshit. Germany doesn't sell any land mines. On the contrary Germany is one of the most active countries in the fight against land mines and the clearing of land mines around the globe. Germany also didn't "go out for the fight for resources". If you make absurd claims like this provide some evidence. | ||
|
maartendq
Belgium3115 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:10 tadL wrote: The problem is we are here in a heavy american forum. if you just point some shit out that america did they go into defensive mode. thats what i see here. so isis is threatening the oil for the west and that has to stop. its as simple. if isis would go rampage in island...well we would not give a shit. Actually, the north-west European countries definitely would give a shit, and would go wipe out Isis. On the other hand, those same countries probably wouldn't care much if Russia invaded some small central European country. Despite the presence of the word Union in 'EU', there are still large differences in loyalty and affiliation among countries and even regions. I think many of the southern European countries are regarded as corrupt and clientelistic (and thus backward) by many of the more northern countries. They also have little to no affiliation with those countries, so don't really care that they have to suffer through austerity to actually get their stuff in order. I also expect that southern European countries don't really care about the Ukraine-Russia conflict because it does not affect them in any significant way, and they feel little to no connection with those people. | ||
|
Velr
Switzerland10551 Posts
The EU won't let Russia invade "random central/eastern" european Country. No, it won't. | ||
|
xM(Z
Romania5268 Posts
because: - weird shenanigans started happening with pressure on both Romania and Republic of Moldova from US, hinting at a desire/need to bring the countries closer (how closer remains to be seen). we're closer anyway and had many times talked about re-unification but the fear-mongering (fueled by terms like economic recession/collapse for ex) of people and/or the political climate (basically presidents/prim ministers sponsored by parties that didn't want us united) prevented both parties from making any headway in that direction. now, as i said, US is pushing both Romania and Moldova closer (basically they're telling us they would be OK with ... whatever). fast forwarding and adding some assumptions: we get united, Moldova gets into NATO by affiliation but, with a self proclaimed independent country on its territory (Transnistria), country which happens to host a russian military base, it has the potential of becoming a major altercation in the US - Russia tug of war. | ||
|
Skilledblob
Germany3392 Posts
| ||
| ||
