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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.
now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway).
http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.html
the link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals.
- Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail)
- Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president)
- Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009)
- Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis)
they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians.
you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler + and signed deals in pdf.
U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania
now sure you can go the other way and call it legit, it, being no more then a secret (for 5 years in that case) business transaction with one party hiring another to do a job, that there won't be strings attached and so on. that's your prerogative i guess but i won't do it.
my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.
@Skilledblob: there were many germans, Siebenbürger Sachsen, (from the lower german provinces - i don't really know what that means exactly: south of today's Germany or maybe from the north of Austria) and hungarians brought in Transilvania, around 11th-12th century to, allegedly, provide a line of defense on the west and south side of the Carpathian mountains. (for reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Saxons )
The Transylvanian Saxon population has decreased since World War II. Transylvanian Saxons started leaving Transylvania during and after WWII, settling first in Austria, then especially in Germany. The process of emigration continued during Communist rule in Romania, and even into the collapse of the Ceaușescu regime in 1989, when approximately half a million fled to homeland Germany.[1] The great majority of Transylvanian Saxons now live in Germany. A sizable Transylvanian Saxon population also resides today in the United States, notably in Idaho, Ohio and Colorado and in Southern Ontario, Canada. Very few still live in Romania, where at the last official census around 37,000 Germans were registered, the number including also Banat Swabians and Sathmar Swabians.
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On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks. now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway). http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.htmlthe link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals. - Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail) - Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president) - Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009) - Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis) they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians. you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler + and signed deals in pdf. Show nested quote +U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania now sure you can go the other way and call it legit, it, being no more then a secret (for 5 years in that case) business transaction with one party hiring another to do a job, that there won't be strings attached and so on. that's your prerogative i guess but i won't do it. my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear. @Skilledblob: there were many germans, Siebenbürger Sachsen, (from the lower german provinces - i don't really know what that means exactly: south of today's Germany or maybe from the north of Austria) and hungarians brought in Transilvania, around 11th-12th century to, allegedly, provide a line of defense on the west and south side of the Carpathian mountains. (for reference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Transylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transylvanian_Saxons ) Show nested quote +The Transylvanian Saxon population has decreased since World War II. Transylvanian Saxons started leaving Transylvania during and after WWII, settling first in Austria, then especially in Germany. The process of emigration continued during Communist rule in Romania, and even into the collapse of the Ceaușescu regime in 1989, when approximately half a million fled to homeland Germany.[1] The great majority of Transylvanian Saxons now live in Germany. A sizable Transylvanian Saxon population also resides today in the United States, notably in Idaho, Ohio and Colorado and in Southern Ontario, Canada. Very few still live in Romania, where at the last official census around 37,000 Germans were registered, the number including also Banat Swabians and Sathmar Swabians.
It means the opposite actually. Plattdüütsch (Low German; lit.: Flat German) was (and still is although the numbers are constantly shrinking) spoken in the north. Flat German would be a better translation because it is named after the land which is mostly flat. It was the lingua franca of the Hanseatic league and spoken between the Netherlands and Estonia.
Most German settlers,Mennonites in the USA, Volhyniagermans, Crimeagermans, Caucasusgermans, Volgagermans, etc. came from Lower German provinces.
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Zurich15357 Posts
On November 29 2014 02:32 tadL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2014 17:33 zatic wrote:On November 28 2014 05:45 tadL wrote:
Germany is doing fine with wars too. We sell tons of land mines for example and we sell some of the finest prostheses out there. Germany is interested in Wars like so many other countries.
The fight for resources is real and even Germans went out for it. And this should not be possible considering the constitution. And this scares me a lot. Can you please stop with this bullshit. Germany doesn't sell any land mines. On the contrary Germany is one of the most active countries in the fight against land mines and the clearing of land mines around the globe. Germany also didn't "go out for the fight for resources". If you make absurd claims like this provide some evidence. Not true we still produce Mines. They are just called Anti vehicle Mines. But to believe that Germany is out of Business is silly. And ehm you forgot Peter Struck? "Die Sicherheit der Bundesrepublik Deutschland wird auch am Hindukusch verteidigt"
And exactly what resources did Germany fight over and extract from Afghanistan? Is Afghanistan really your one example of Germany joining the fight for resources?
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about gypsies, the reason why there are more of them in eastern Europe is that when western European countries expelled them (throughout the 14th and 15th century), they traveled either across the ocean to Americas or eastward towards Russia.
that and the fact that for 400 - 500 years Moldova, Wallachia and to a lesser extent Transylvania, used gypsies as slaves (slavery was abolished, officially, in 1843 through 1856).
the romanian countries had both free nomadic gypsies and slave gypsies. the amount of and how some gypsies became slaves is disputed to this day.
- one theory is that they came with the tartars as their slaves or were war prisoners captured from the tartars during their wars (it was a spread practice to use war prisoners as slaves)
- one is that they became slaves by working for a number of consecutive years on the propriety of a noble (boyar). it was a law at that time.
the fact that they were traded, gifted, sold/bought, had no rights, is not disputed.
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On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.
...But Romanian people voted for the politicians. Your original post implies Romanian people are so stupid that all it takes is for the Pentagon to snap its fingers and a puppet is appointed out of the blue. I am not Romanian so I am not going to claim to understand how your domestic politics works but I bet some other Romanian, maybe one that actually voted for the president elect would probably seriously question your statement that he won 'out of the blue'
now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway). http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.htmlthe link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals. - Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail) - Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president) - Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009) - Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis) they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians. you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler + and signed deals in pdf. Show nested quote +U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania
So the list of various private American businesses, include one business that advises Orban, probably Kremlin's biggest supporter within the EU? What does that prove, that Americans are so clever that they sent multiple private consultancies ostensibly working against each other but really working in a combination to ensure the right kind of puppet is elected? Dont you think its possible interpret it also as: American businesses that are good at political consultancies were hired by various competing politicians to help them further their political goals. And dont you think the fact that multiple consultancies you list are not just business competitors but also ideological competitors, some supporting the liberal and some the conservative branch of American politics, undermines your claim that "American government" snapped its fingers and made it so?
my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.
Iohanis is a Romanian. He is on the "Romanian side."
And a second quick point: he never mentioned Moldova, "Romanian side criticized him" and he, I dont know, maybe listened to that criticism and decided to change his previous silence on the issue?
Anyway, whichever way, at least we are moving now:
From your original claim that: "Americans put a German puppet as the president of Romania using their ingenious evil to then annex Moldova and thus get them into the EU and NATO and force Russia out of Transdnestria" we are now at a new claim: "American private consultants helped elect a German puppet so he can be used as a prop to help the Americans win elections in a country that is significantly smaller, poorer and less important than Romania."
Why wouldnt they just use all their evil genius consultants to just win that election to? And again, why would they care either way. The base in Trasdenstria isnt free, it costs Russia money that its finding harder and harder to generate. If Americans wanted to fuck with Russia the two things they'd be doing is (a) crushing the oil price (which they are) and (b) getting the Russians to build even more bases. If Moldova joins the Euroasian Union it will be like another Belorus, a leach of the oil revenue from Moscow and Kazakhstan.
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I am genuinly interested what you guys think of chancellor Schröders connection to Putin. Especially those of you who see undue influence of the US on the politicians of your countries.
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Well, for us Poles Shroder is something like public enemy. For example North Stream was a huge hit to our national interests and it succeded thanks to Shroders support. His dealings with Russia has seriously hurt our economy and foreign policy. If we could get away with this we would put him in prison.
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As a german, the whole thing feels exceedingly shady. A chancellor is personal friend with a foreign dictator, then a strong proponent of a mayor project for a company that that dictator is in close control of, and then after he stops being a chancellor he gets instantly hire by that same company on very favorable terms. I don't want to say corruption, but dude, that is corrupt as fuck.
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it's pretty iffy, but you cant deny the positive side of this. Russia has been and always will be an important trade partner for germany and having this line for gas that does not go straight through countries like Belarus or Ukraine is good for us in the long run.
also it doesnt hurt that the polish government cant mess around with our gas supply when they decide to go on some childish anti-germany streak again.
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Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terrible and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few months is completely beyond me.
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On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terribly and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few moths is completely beyond me.
dont get me wrong I dont like Schröder either, but politicians turning into lobbyists is kinda the norm here sadly.
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But not to the degree that he did. If your average party bureaucrat turns into a lobbyist that's kind of to be expected, but chancellors don't stop being statesmen when they leave office, and almost any other German chancellor or comparable politician hasn't acted in the way Schröder did.
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On December 01 2014 01:48 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terribly and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few moths is completely beyond me. dont get me wrong I dont like Schröder either, but politicians turning into lobbyists is kinda the norm here sadly.
It's the norm everywhere. Kind of expected too, considering the amount of connections those people build up during their careers.
Two Belgian ex-prime ministers sold their souls for cash. Very few politicians seem to be able to resist the lure of money when it is offered to them, something which is definitely hurting the European left, since they are supposed to be representing the working class, not turning into that one thing they were fighting in the first place. Socialism has really become a joke.
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On November 30 2014 17:29 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.
...But Romanian people voted for the politicians. Your original post implies Romanian people are so stupid that all it takes is for the Pentagon to snap its fingers and a puppet is appointed out of the blue. I am not Romanian so I am not going to claim to understand how your domestic politics works but I bet some other Romanian, maybe one that actually voted for the president elect would probably seriously question your statement that he won 'out of the blue' Show nested quote +now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway). http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.htmlthe link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals. - Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail) - Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president) - Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009) - Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis) they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians. you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler + and signed deals in pdf. U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania So the list of various private American businesses, include one business that advises Orban, probably Kremlin's biggest supporter within the EU? What does that prove, that Americans are so clever that they sent multiple private consultancies ostensibly working against each other but really working in a combination to ensure the right kind of puppet is elected? Dont you think its possible interpret it also as: American businesses that are good at political consultancies were hired by various competing politicians to help them further their political goals. And dont you think the fact that multiple consultancies you list are not just business competitors but also ideological competitors, some supporting the liberal and some the conservative branch of American politics, undermines your claim that "American government" snapped its fingers and made it so? Show nested quote +
my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.
Iohanis is a Romanian. He is on the "Romanian side." And a second quick point: he never mentioned Moldova, "Romanian side criticized him" and he, I dont know, maybe listened to that criticism and decided to change his previous silence on the issue? Anyway, whichever way, at least we are moving now: From your original claim that: "Americans put a German puppet as the president of Romania using their ingenious evil to then annex Moldova and thus get them into the EU and NATO and force Russia out of Transdnestria" we are now at a new claim: "American private consultants helped elect a German puppet so he can be used as a prop to help the Americans win elections in a country that is significantly smaller, poorer and less important than Romania." Why wouldnt they just use all their evil genius consultants to just win that election to? And again, why would they care either way. The base in Trasdenstria isnt free, it costs Russia money that its finding harder and harder to generate. If Americans wanted to fuck with Russia the two things they'd be doing is (a) crushing the oil price (which they are) and (b) getting the Russians to build even more bases. If Moldova joins the Euroasian Union it will be like another Belorus, a leach of the oil revenue from Moscow and Kazakhstan.
you seem to want to be spoon fed with explications about how opportunities can be and are created by people with power.
romanians don't really have a choice when the elections come. they know that but they have to pick someone eventually, then hope for the best. that's how it is, amidst satisfying foreign interests left and right, maybe will get some scraps. of course romanians hope that Iohannis won't forget them but only time will tell now.
my claim remained the same: Iohannis is american made. i showed how both our left PSD and our right PNL run to american consultancy/lobby firms and pay them to run their political/image campaigns, thing which also acknowledges/implies the fact that those companies own, in our country, various media outlets. how else will they be able to reach their intended target?, the romanian people. through FOXNews?. (the rest of my claims were just assumptions based on future events and i presented them as such).
Iohannis president and Moldova few days away from presidential/parliamentary elections, presented an opportunity. that was all it was, an opportunity. americans tried to seize it but it failed: in Moldova, the pro-russian parties (socialism/communism) are winning. GG, next ... ?
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On December 01 2014 03:09 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 01:48 Skilledblob wrote:On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terribly and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few moths is completely beyond me. dont get me wrong I dont like Schröder either, but politicians turning into lobbyists is kinda the norm here sadly. It's the norm everywhere. Kind of expected too, considering the amount of connections those people build up during their careers. Two Belgian ex-prime ministers sold their souls for cash. Very few politicians seem to be able to resist the lure of money when it is offered to them, something which is definitely hurting the European left, since they are supposed to be representing the working class, not turning into that one thing they were fighting in the first place. Socialism has really become a joke.
agreed. they gave up everything they believed in and wonder why people moved on lol.
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On December 01 2014 10:11 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 03:09 maartendq wrote:On December 01 2014 01:48 Skilledblob wrote:On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terribly and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few moths is completely beyond me. dont get me wrong I dont like Schröder either, but politicians turning into lobbyists is kinda the norm here sadly. It's the norm everywhere. Kind of expected too, considering the amount of connections those people build up during their careers. Two Belgian ex-prime ministers sold their souls for cash. Very few politicians seem to be able to resist the lure of money when it is offered to them, something which is definitely hurting the European left, since they are supposed to be representing the working class, not turning into that one thing they were fighting in the first place. Socialism has really become a joke. agreed. they gave up everything they believed in and wonder why people moved on lol.
ey! pretty werner still rules! . . . ehrm austria!
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On December 01 2014 10:29 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2014 10:11 Doublemint wrote:On December 01 2014 03:09 maartendq wrote:On December 01 2014 01:48 Skilledblob wrote:On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terribly and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few moths is completely beyond me. dont get me wrong I dont like Schröder either, but politicians turning into lobbyists is kinda the norm here sadly. It's the norm everywhere. Kind of expected too, considering the amount of connections those people build up during their careers. Two Belgian ex-prime ministers sold their souls for cash. Very few politicians seem to be able to resist the lure of money when it is offered to them, something which is definitely hurting the European left, since they are supposed to be representing the working class, not turning into that one thing they were fighting in the first place. Socialism has really become a joke. agreed. they gave up everything they believed in and wonder why people moved on lol. ey! pretty werner still rules! . . . ehrm austria!
hehe. yea I am aware of mr. failmann 
you can be sure that he is one of the gravediggers of the social democrats, and that them sucking - which they do ( OEVP included) will lead to the FPOE getting stronger and stronger. at least we got the neos( (classic) liberal democrats, maybe even too liberal in terms of economy but otherwise very reasonable across the board) now.
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well, if all goes down the drain I heard there are stil lsome Habsburgs around?
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On December 01 2014 10:35 Skilledblob wrote:well, if all goes down the drain I heard there are stil lsome Habsburgs around?
indeed. you fear the GERMANS europe? just as planned, muahahahahaa
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On December 01 2014 08:24 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2014 17:29 Sub40APM wrote:On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.
...But Romanian people voted for the politicians. Your original post implies Romanian people are so stupid that all it takes is for the Pentagon to snap its fingers and a puppet is appointed out of the blue. I am not Romanian so I am not going to claim to understand how your domestic politics works but I bet some other Romanian, maybe one that actually voted for the president elect would probably seriously question your statement that he won 'out of the blue' now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway). http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.htmlthe link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals. - Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail) - Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president) - Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009) - Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis) they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians. you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler + and signed deals in pdf. U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania So the list of various private American businesses, include one business that advises Orban, probably Kremlin's biggest supporter within the EU? What does that prove, that Americans are so clever that they sent multiple private consultancies ostensibly working against each other but really working in a combination to ensure the right kind of puppet is elected? Dont you think its possible interpret it also as: American businesses that are good at political consultancies were hired by various competing politicians to help them further their political goals. And dont you think the fact that multiple consultancies you list are not just business competitors but also ideological competitors, some supporting the liberal and some the conservative branch of American politics, undermines your claim that "American government" snapped its fingers and made it so?
my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.
Iohanis is a Romanian. He is on the "Romanian side." And a second quick point: he never mentioned Moldova, "Romanian side criticized him" and he, I dont know, maybe listened to that criticism and decided to change his previous silence on the issue? Anyway, whichever way, at least we are moving now: From your original claim that: "Americans put a German puppet as the president of Romania using their ingenious evil to then annex Moldova and thus get them into the EU and NATO and force Russia out of Transdnestria" we are now at a new claim: "American private consultants helped elect a German puppet so he can be used as a prop to help the Americans win elections in a country that is significantly smaller, poorer and less important than Romania." Why wouldnt they just use all their evil genius consultants to just win that election to? And again, why would they care either way. The base in Trasdenstria isnt free, it costs Russia money that its finding harder and harder to generate. If Americans wanted to fuck with Russia the two things they'd be doing is (a) crushing the oil price (which they are) and (b) getting the Russians to build even more bases. If Moldova joins the Euroasian Union it will be like another Belorus, a leach of the oil revenue from Moscow and Kazakhstan. you seem to want to be spoon fed with explications about how opportunities can be and are created by people with power.
Yes. Sorry that a conspiracy theory isnt just quite enough.
my claim remained the same: Iohannis is american made. i showed how both our left PSD and our right PNL run to american consultancy/lobby firms and pay them to run their political/image campaigns, thing which also acknowledges/implies the fact that those companies own, in our country, various media outlets. how else will they be able to reach their intended target?, the romanian people. through FOXNews?. (the rest of my claims were just assumptions based on future events and i presented them as such).
You are right. Thats much more logical than American companies -- who are also ideologically opposed to each other -- were hired for their expertise at mobilizing voters and crafting ads. You dont have to own media outlets to have them run political ads -- controversially, media companies do these things called 'sell ad space' that controversially other people 'buy' them.
Iohannis president and Moldova few days away from presidential/parliamentary elections, presented an opportunity. that was all it was, an opportunity. americans tried to seize it but it failed: in Moldova, the pro-russian parties (socialism/communism) are winning. GG, next ... ?
Think about what you are saying:
Americans had an opportunity because Moldova had elections very soon after Romanian elections so to influence Moldovan elections they rigged the Romanian elections to influence the Moldovan elections.
Why go through this elaborate step again? Why not influence Moldovan elections directly? Anyway, at least its nice of you to acknowledge that its possible for someone of German descent to be a Romanian who represents Romanian interests.
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