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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 12

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 01 2014 01:40 GMT
#221
On December 01 2014 10:36 Doublemint wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 10:35 Skilledblob wrote:
well, if all goes down the drain I heard there are stil lsome Habsburgs around?


indeed. you fear the GERMANS europe? just as planned, muahahahahaa

I always felt sad for Hapsburg empire. Everyone was tearing away at it and the end Austria, Czechs, Slovaks, Croats and Hungarians end up in the same mega-Empire anyway. Except now instead of being a federation of equals they are second fiddle to the German-France Axis.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 01:49:38
December 01 2014 01:43 GMT
#222
On December 01 2014 10:40 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 10:36 Doublemint wrote:
On December 01 2014 10:35 Skilledblob wrote:
well, if all goes down the drain I heard there are stil lsome Habsburgs around?


indeed. you fear the GERMANS europe? just as planned, muahahahahaa

I always felt sad for Hapsburg empire. Everyone was tearing away at it and the end Austria, Czechs, Slovaks, Croats and Hungarians end up in the same mega-Empire anyway. Except now instead of being a federation of equals they are second fiddle to the German-France Axis.


one could also say that we learned our lesson and history gave us an opportunity to stop with major meddling in world politics. way more relaxed, have more of a mediation role in the world between forces bound for centuries to destroy each other. too bad we (our politicians after kreisky) gave that up as well for the most part lol.
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
December 01 2014 02:01 GMT
#223
On December 01 2014 01:42 Nyxisto wrote:
Schröder was a fucking idiot. He has ruined the image of the SPD for decades, his economic policies were terrible and his behaviour towards Russia is disgusting. How a chancellor can turn into a second tier lobbyist over the course of a few months is completely beyond me.


i think its SPD inherent, you can see their new leader Gabriel turn into a hardcore capitalist industrialist right before your eyes as soon as he got a whiff of power.
Skilledblob
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany3392 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 02:16:29
December 01 2014 02:15 GMT
#224
at the moment the SPD and the CDU are pretty much the same and it's only going to get worse in the next years now that they have formed another coalition. They will lose even more of their left wing voters to Die Linke and at the same time lose their center voters to the CDU and at the end they'll end up like the FDP.

which is probably the best for the whole system, there was no going back after Schröder
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 01 2014 02:51 GMT
#225
On December 01 2014 11:15 Skilledblob wrote:
at the moment the SPD and the CDU are pretty much the same and it's only going to get worse in the next years now that they have formed another coalition. They will lose even more of their left wing voters to Die Linke and at the same time lose their center voters to the CDU and at the end they'll end up like the FDP.

which is probably the best for the whole system, there was no going back after Schröder

But that seems to happen to every left party that actually comes to power. Look at the socialists in France or Labour under Blair. There seems to be a kind of professionalization of politics where parties that appeal to the middle end up looking identical except around the most extreme edges. And in turn thats causing the left to be the middle and the right if its under pressure for the far right to lurch more right, an American Republican from 1988 would be considered probably a Democrat on all issues except probably gay marriage. In the UK, Cameron is trying out-right the UKIP by going on a Republican style anti-immigrant tear and so forth.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-01 09:29:05
December 01 2014 08:55 GMT
#226
On December 01 2014 10:37 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 08:24 xM(Z wrote:
On November 30 2014 17:29 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.

...But Romanian people voted for the politicians. Your original post implies Romanian people are so stupid that all it takes is for the Pentagon to snap its fingers and a puppet is appointed out of the blue. I am not Romanian so I am not going to claim to understand how your domestic politics works but I bet some other Romanian, maybe one that actually voted for the president elect would probably seriously question your statement that he won 'out of the blue'

now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway).
http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.html
the link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals.
- Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail)
- Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president)
- Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009)
- Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis)
they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians.
you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
and signed deals in pdf.
U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania

So the list of various private American businesses, include one business that advises Orban, probably Kremlin's biggest supporter within the EU? What does that prove, that Americans are so clever that they sent multiple private consultancies ostensibly working against each other but really working in a combination to ensure the right kind of puppet is elected? Dont you think its possible interpret it also as: American businesses that are good at political consultancies were hired by various competing politicians to help them further their political goals. And dont you think the fact that multiple consultancies you list are not just business competitors but also ideological competitors, some supporting the liberal and some the conservative branch of American politics, undermines your claim that "American government" snapped its fingers and made it so?


my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.

Iohanis is a Romanian. He is on the "Romanian side."
And a second quick point: he never mentioned Moldova, "Romanian side criticized him" and he, I dont know, maybe listened to that criticism and decided to change his previous silence on the issue?

Anyway, whichever way, at least we are moving now:
From your original claim that: "Americans put a German puppet as the president of Romania using their ingenious evil to then annex Moldova and thus get them into the EU and NATO and force Russia out of Transdnestria" we are now at a new claim: "American private consultants helped elect a German puppet so he can be used as a prop to help the Americans win elections in a country that is significantly smaller, poorer and less important than Romania."

Why wouldnt they just use all their evil genius consultants to just win that election to? And again, why would they care either way. The base in Trasdenstria isnt free, it costs Russia money that its finding harder and harder to generate. If Americans wanted to fuck with Russia the two things they'd be doing is (a) crushing the oil price (which they are) and (b) getting the Russians to build even more bases. If Moldova joins the Euroasian Union it will be like another Belorus, a leach of the oil revenue from Moscow and Kazakhstan.

you seem to want to be spoon fed with explications about how opportunities can be and are created by people with power.

Yes. Sorry that a conspiracy theory isnt just quite enough.
Show nested quote +


my claim remained the same: Iohannis is american made. i showed how both our left PSD and our right PNL run to american consultancy/lobby firms and pay them to run their political/image campaigns, thing which also acknowledges/implies the fact that those companies own, in our country, various media outlets. how else will they be able to reach their intended target?, the romanian people. through FOXNews?. (the rest of my claims were just assumptions based on future events and i presented them as such).

You are right. Thats much more logical than American companies -- who are also ideologically opposed to each other -- were hired for their expertise at mobilizing voters and crafting ads. You dont have to own media outlets to have them run political ads -- controversially, media companies do these things called 'sell ad space' that controversially other people 'buy' them.
Show nested quote +


Iohannis president and Moldova few days away from presidential/parliamentary elections, presented an opportunity. that was all it was, an opportunity. americans tried to seize it but it failed: in Moldova, the pro-russian parties (socialism/communism) are winning. GG, next ... ?

Think about what you are saying:
Americans had an opportunity because Moldova had elections very soon after Romanian elections so to influence Moldovan elections they rigged the Romanian elections to influence the Moldovan elections.
Why go through this elaborate step again? Why not influence Moldovan elections directly? Anyway, at least its nice of you to acknowledge that its possible for someone of German descent to be a Romanian who represents Romanian interests.

americans do work in Moldova too; they wouldn't be americans if they didn't .
the opinion polls in Moldova were showing a close battle between pro EU and pro Russia sides so, i wouldn't call it influence/manipulation, but Iohannis's visit was expected to give a nudge in the right direction (maybe not like V.Nuland's visit prior to ukrainian revolution but still it should have amounted to something/to more then it did).

about ad space selling and people buying them:
-even a 220.000 thousand dollars fee payed to an american firm by a romanian, is a red flag here. an average romanian has to work 8 -10 years (high payed CEO's about 2-3 years) to be able to afford that and that number doesn't even include those other required campaign expenses and bribes.
what you are claiming there, does happen from time to time but staying within the legality of an election campaign gets you somewhere around 3% of the votes at best.
even Iohannis had(still does 'till january (at least) pending a verdict), open dossiers at our anti corruption investigation agency. he was the mayor of Sibiu(Hermannstadt) and allegedly did shady deals with real estates, pieces of land/property.

we, as a nation, have nothing against germans. we have historic writings saying: "the german is a just/fair and hard working person/human" (rough translation, describing a romanian sentiment during medieval times) and in general seen germans as good people.
romanians now are all GO Iohannins! pinning hopes and dreams on him but as i said, only time will tell.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Deleted User 137586
Profile Joined January 2011
7859 Posts
December 01 2014 10:30 GMT
#227
This is a bit late in terms of the thread but I wanted to add that the Le Pen 'subsidy/loan' is not a one-off thing, Russia has funded FN and other EU parties before and this loan is reportedly part of a 40 million package for FN.
Cry 'havoc' and let slip the dogs of war
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 01 2014 23:30 GMT
#228
not sure if right thread but this is ridiculous

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30037531
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
December 02 2014 00:14 GMT
#229
On December 01 2014 17:55 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2014 10:37 Sub40APM wrote:
On December 01 2014 08:24 xM(Z wrote:
On November 30 2014 17:29 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 29 2014 20:05 xM(Z wrote:
@Sub40APM you need to make a distinction when talking about romanians in general. there are the romanian people and the romanian politicians. you seem to think that they're one and the same and have the same goals/ideas/agenda (meaning, americans don't directly or even purposely screw romanian people but indirectly through romanian politicians, sure). politicians are shit everywhere are are not to be confused with the regular folks.

...But Romanian people voted for the politicians. Your original post implies Romanian people are so stupid that all it takes is for the Pentagon to snap its fingers and a puppet is appointed out of the blue. I am not Romanian so I am not going to claim to understand how your domestic politics works but I bet some other Romanian, maybe one that actually voted for the president elect would probably seriously question your statement that he won 'out of the blue'

now, for your issue, i'll give you a link in romanian but with english pdf files in it so if you're lazy to google translate the romanian part, those pdfs will give you an idea of what's happening (i'll get some quotes and translate some parts anyway).
http://www.revista22.ro/cum-lau-ajutat-americanii-pe-ponta-sa-piarda-alegerile-firmele-de-consultanta-si-lobby-cheia-esecului-psd-vezi-cine-sunt-acestea-si-ce-contracte-au-avut-in-romania-50590.html
the link talks about romanian (but not only) politicians working with american lobbyist/consultancy firms to further their political goals.
- Madison & Company LLC worked for Adrian Nastase (an ex-prim minister we had, currently in jail)
- Prime Policy Group worked for Victor Ianukovici (ukraine president), Viktor Orban (prim minister of Hungary) and Crin Antonescu (our very own ex-liberal party leader, ex-president of the senate and ex-active president)
- Global Policy Initiative worked for Mircea Geoana (our ex-PSD leader, ex-president of the senate, failed to win the presidential elections in 2009)
- Wesley K. Clark was an advisor to Viorel Ponta during the most recent presidential elections (the one he lost to Klaus Iohanis)
they also mention Mitch Stewart with his firm "270 Strategies" and Podesta Group as some of the biggest lobbyist companies that worked with past or current politicians.
you have in that link payment receipts + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
and signed deals in pdf.
U.S.Department of Justice
Washington,DC20530
OMBNO.1124-0006;ExpiresFebruary28,2014
Exhibit A to Registration Statement Pursuant to the Foreign Agents Registration Act of 1938,as amended
1.Name and Address of Registrant
PrimePolicyGroup
1110VermontAvenue,NW,Suite1000
Washington,D C20005
2.Registration No. 6192
3.Name of Foreign Principal
Senator Crin Antonescu and the National Liberal Party of Romania(through SC.Out Media SRL )
4.Principal Address of Foreign Principal
Bd.Aviatorilor Nr.86 Sector1,Bucuresti,Romania

So the list of various private American businesses, include one business that advises Orban, probably Kremlin's biggest supporter within the EU? What does that prove, that Americans are so clever that they sent multiple private consultancies ostensibly working against each other but really working in a combination to ensure the right kind of puppet is elected? Dont you think its possible interpret it also as: American businesses that are good at political consultancies were hired by various competing politicians to help them further their political goals. And dont you think the fact that multiple consultancies you list are not just business competitors but also ideological competitors, some supporting the liberal and some the conservative branch of American politics, undermines your claim that "American government" snapped its fingers and made it so?


my interpretation of the events: K.Iohanis never mentioned Moldova in his entire presidential campaign and was harshly criticized for it by the romanian side. he gets elected president; the next day he gets an unofficial visit from an official from the US Embassy in Bucharest; the following day he is on a plane, goes to Moldova and talks about the need of the moldavian people to vote/choose for EU-integration in their next elections and some more politically correct bullshit. the elections in Moldova will be on the 30th Nov 2014 (as in, tomorrow). if a pro EU group wins there and then i'll see V.Nuland going to Moldova, flaunting her famous 5bill dollarz, shit's clear.

Iohanis is a Romanian. He is on the "Romanian side."
And a second quick point: he never mentioned Moldova, "Romanian side criticized him" and he, I dont know, maybe listened to that criticism and decided to change his previous silence on the issue?

Anyway, whichever way, at least we are moving now:
From your original claim that: "Americans put a German puppet as the president of Romania using their ingenious evil to then annex Moldova and thus get them into the EU and NATO and force Russia out of Transdnestria" we are now at a new claim: "American private consultants helped elect a German puppet so he can be used as a prop to help the Americans win elections in a country that is significantly smaller, poorer and less important than Romania."

Why wouldnt they just use all their evil genius consultants to just win that election to? And again, why would they care either way. The base in Trasdenstria isnt free, it costs Russia money that its finding harder and harder to generate. If Americans wanted to fuck with Russia the two things they'd be doing is (a) crushing the oil price (which they are) and (b) getting the Russians to build even more bases. If Moldova joins the Euroasian Union it will be like another Belorus, a leach of the oil revenue from Moscow and Kazakhstan.

you seem to want to be spoon fed with explications about how opportunities can be and are created by people with power.

Yes. Sorry that a conspiracy theory isnt just quite enough.


my claim remained the same: Iohannis is american made. i showed how both our left PSD and our right PNL run to american consultancy/lobby firms and pay them to run their political/image campaigns, thing which also acknowledges/implies the fact that those companies own, in our country, various media outlets. how else will they be able to reach their intended target?, the romanian people. through FOXNews?. (the rest of my claims were just assumptions based on future events and i presented them as such).

You are right. Thats much more logical than American companies -- who are also ideologically opposed to each other -- were hired for their expertise at mobilizing voters and crafting ads. You dont have to own media outlets to have them run political ads -- controversially, media companies do these things called 'sell ad space' that controversially other people 'buy' them.


Iohannis president and Moldova few days away from presidential/parliamentary elections, presented an opportunity. that was all it was, an opportunity. americans tried to seize it but it failed: in Moldova, the pro-russian parties (socialism/communism) are winning. GG, next ... ?

Think about what you are saying:
Americans had an opportunity because Moldova had elections very soon after Romanian elections so to influence Moldovan elections they rigged the Romanian elections to influence the Moldovan elections.
Why go through this elaborate step again? Why not influence Moldovan elections directly? Anyway, at least its nice of you to acknowledge that its possible for someone of German descent to be a Romanian who represents Romanian interests.

americans do work in Moldova too; they wouldn't be americans if they didn't .
the opinion polls in Moldova were showing a close battle between pro EU and pro Russia sides so, i wouldn't call it influence/manipulation, but Iohannis's visit was expected to give a nudge in the right direction (maybe not like V.Nuland's visit prior to ukrainian revolution but still it should have amounted to something/to more then it did).

Yes but do you see how your language becomes more reasonable? It went from Americans couped Romania to coup Moldova to pro-Western candidate of Romania visited Moldova to support pro-Western candidates. Like one is impossible to argue with. The other is impossible not to.


about ad space selling and people buying them:
-even a 220.000 thousand dollars fee payed to an american firm by a romanian, is a red flag here. an average romanian has to work 8 -10 years (high payed CEO's about 2-3 years) to be able to afford that and that number doesn't even include those other required campaign expenses and bribes.

I dont know how politics are funded in Romania, but Wikipedia says the National Liberal party, for example, has 200,000 members or so. So if each gave one dollar and ten cents in donations thats the fee. Presumably they also receive donations from businessmen trying to influence them like they do everywhere else.
what you are claiming there, does happen from time to time but staying within the legality of an election campaign gets you somewhere around 3% of the votes at best.
As far as I can tell he was a surprising winner but not just some random puppet found out of nowhere, and googling around whereas he had an open case against him he was also viewed as a respect mayor of his town? So I dont know, I think your original wording had some pretty negative connotations against him personally and his success and now you clarified your position to a much more reasonable one that without understanding the intricacies of Romania is impossible to really dispute. Which is what I kind of wanted to get through with my reply
Fuchsteufelswild
Profile Joined October 2009
Australia2028 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-02 03:10:48
December 02 2014 03:10 GMT
#230
On December 02 2014 08:30 oneofthem wrote:
not sure if right thread but this is ridiculous

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-30037531

Well with the title, I was going to say
"Oh ho, so the EU is catching up to the Idiocracy of AU then?"

I'm not really sure how EU legislation works but is that position one that could potentially force GM crops onto member states of the EU?
I'd have thought that would be one of those matters left to individual member states.
Why didn't the green groups just try have her ousted? :/
Even if scientific evidence supports it, green groups are usually pro-(most) science, just not things that directly conflict with their views like nuclear fission and GM crops, so why lobby for the removal of the position.
ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
December 02 2014 03:22 GMT
#231
she doesn't have any legislative authority, just a voice
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-02 06:31:49
December 02 2014 06:25 GMT
#232
On December 02 2014 12:22 oneofthem wrote:
she doesn't have any legislative authority, just a voice


and she is a brit. and oh boy don't they show that they love the idea of europe, especially recently. I would not put this out of proportions to be honest. though mr. GMO himself might I guess :p

//edit: don't get me wrong, it is a minor setback for GMOs, but talking about a disgrace for cutting such a body with no authority whatsoever other than being pro GMO... I dunno man.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
December 02 2014 11:00 GMT
#233
So Putin announces that Russia will cancel "South Stream" and blames Bulgaria for this. Funny guy.
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-02 16:19:53
December 02 2014 16:05 GMT
#234
Why? What's funny about that?
From what I read Gasprom had the contract to build the part of the pipeline through Bulgaria. Then the US / EU applied some pressure (can't have Russia taking away contracts than western companies desire).
So, it is perfectly normal than Putin goes elsewhere with his pipeline. That's economic freedom, one of those 'western values' we defend all the time, remember.
Vragelano
Profile Joined December 2014
Antigua/Barbuda2 Posts
December 02 2014 16:08 GMT
#235
--- Nuked ---
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
December 02 2014 16:20 GMT
#236
On December 02 2014 20:00 mdb wrote:
So Putin announces that Russia will cancel "South Stream" and blames Bulgaria for this. Funny guy.


well you are part of the degenerated western gay community a.k.a EU. better get used to it
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-02 23:07:37
December 02 2014 22:53 GMT
#237
georgian, american and lithuanian appointed as
health, finance and economy ministers respectively
in ukraine.
src

ukraine starts up ministry of truth.
src

norweg govt is spending 1E8 nkr a year for ukr-govt life support,
where is our minister? georgia and lithuania? plz.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2597 Posts
December 03 2014 16:08 GMT
#238
No one has really asked about it but Sweden is as of now in a political crisis.

Long story short our political system is fairly stable and designed to allow coalition and minority governments. One side of this is that crucial decisions doesn't need over 50 % of the vote, they just need to not have 50 % of the vote against them.
There are 7 parties, in 3 blocks. The left (socialists, the far left party, the greens) narrowly won the election but didn't get a majority. The right (4 parties) were in opposition and still presented their own budget. And the Swedish democrats, an anti immigration and social conservative party which got 13 % in the last election. Everyone told SD to go fuck themselves.

Now, what happened is that the left formed a government and got the prime minister spot. But when the budgets were presented the Swedish democrats decided that they would vote for the opposition budget instead. Despite calls to discuss this among all other parties they couldn't agree on anything and today the rights budget was passed under a leftist government.

Naturally this won't work so the prime minister called for a re-election (100 % guaranteed the opposition was betting he'd just resign and hand them the torch but I guess he was pissed off that they refused to even talk to him).

So in 3 months we have a new election, everyone things our politicians behave like 7 year olds and all the parties are busy trying to put the blame on each other for making the government blow up.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-03 16:23:54
December 03 2014 16:23 GMT
#239
i saw that on the news yesterday and today!
how do you think this will reflect (if at all) in new election?
looks like similar business going down in israel.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8497 Posts
December 03 2014 16:24 GMT
#240
reminds me a bit of the situation Austria had around 2000 (kind of similar situation, only that our FPOE had more votes than the conservatives in 3rd place - #1 was SPOE and #2 as logic dictates our "sweden democrats").

before conservatives and right wingers formed the fateful coalition which brought a shocking increase in corruption and selling of people's property(like Austria Tabak... etc...) to the benefit of only a few and in the name of a balanced budget on paper, which never stood the test of reality.
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